dead batterys caused sea fire to shut down

[magna 6882]

I hired an outfit to wax the boat for the winter. I think they were using the boats 120 power for there buffers and tripped the shore power ground fault. This caused the boat to run off inverter. When a got to the boat to check on the work and pay them i found the boat dead with 4.4 volts. I set the breaker and got 120 to the boat but there wasn't enough voltage to even trigger the inverter to charge or send the 120 through so we unloaded the fridge and threw out the food and put the battery's on a charger .Went back the next day and had dc voltage and the inverter could see the batterys and passed an 120 and started charging. I couldn't start the engine as it was dead but batterys were good. Turned out to be the sea fire engine shut down. The sea fire unit had voltage but the power light was off. Tried to pull the fuse and recycle the unit but upon further investigation the unit has 2 power supply's so I manually pulled the power and re connected and the power light came on and the engine could now be started.

I wanted to post this because if you have the sea fire system on your boat you should get familiar with the system because if the system fails when it not warranted you will find yourself with a non running boat. There are three relays controlling the generator,engine and blowers. I think there needs to be a manual over ride. I believe the low voltage caused the unit shut down requiring a reboot. After 2 days on the the boat i seem to have everything working but one camera is dead. It may be a power problem.

 

[RedRascal]

Do you know how the battery voltage dropped so far? In theory the inverter would have a low voltage shutoff around 11ish volts. Was it the sea fire system placing a DC load on the batteries that pulled them down to 4.4 volts?

 

[magna 6882]

Do you know how the battery voltage dropped so far? In theory the inverter would have a low voltage shutoff around 11ish volts. Was it the sea fire system placing a DC load on the batteries that pulled them down to 4.4 volts?

I would think the inverter itself would stop functioning at 10.5 or so and shut down. There are other 12volt loads but it was difficult to diagnose with the battery's so dead. When i put the charger on i had problems getting it to start taking a charge as there were several interior lights on. Once i figured out which lights were on(they were just kinda blinking since there led) i turned them off and got the charger working. The newer electronic chargers sometimes are difficult to perform under these conditions. I suspect the lights could have been on for days.

My main reason for making this post was i had no idea that there was a system on the boat that could leave me disabled.No engine start and no gen start would leave a guy with few options if it decided to fail.I need to research the relays for the two main functions. Two are N/C and one is N/O. I need to install 2 switches allowing me to bypass the relays if this situation were to ever arise in the future.

Not sure how many boaters even use these systems.

 

[twistedtree]

Yet another SeaFire surprise. Fire shutdown systems all have override switches built in, but apparently the SeaFire gets itself into a locked up state on low power and doesn't recover when power returns. Charming. Their internal power supply is also highly prone to failure, and when it does fail, all the protected equipment will be disabled, and the override won't work. Dead in the water.



You might consider switching to a FireBoy control box and panel. They are much more reliable and robust. The SeaFire gray box shutdown, in my opinion, is unfit for purpose. I know dozens of people, myself included, who have been left with completely disabled boats because of them. When I built my current boat, I made all the automatic fire protection systems Fire Boy. No SeaFire for me, ever again.

 

[Porgy]

I still have the Sea-Fire and what they recommend is switching from the default “energize to run” to “energize to stop.” That’s supposed to eliminate having relays running hot 24/7 which they surmise might be the cause of failures. Not defending them, just stating what they recommend.

As far as power loss, our Sea-Fire is powered by the house, engine and generator batteries. The latter two are separate from the house bank and the only way to kill the start batteries would be to deliberately parallel them. So a Sea-Fire failure from dead batteries should and can be a non-issue.

 

[twistedtree]

I still have the Sea-Fire and what they recommend is switching from the default “energize to run” to “energize to stop.” That’s supposed to eliminate having relays running hot 24/7 which they surmise might be the cause of failures. Not defending them, just stating what they recommend.

That’s what they told me when mine failed. The trouble with that approach, and the whole reason why such systems are ALWAYS energize to run, is you lose the inherent self-test and confirmation that the system is working.

With an energize to run, which is how ALL safety systems work, you need to have power and an operations shutdown system to start your engine in the first place. So you know it’s working.

With energize to stop, you have no idea if the system is working, or even has power until it’s called on to save your life. Then you find out if it’s working.

 

[sunchaser]

Magna
Whether Sea Fire or Fire Boy I'm curious as to two things. First, can you turn off your inverter when you leave the boat? Secondly what are details on why power tripped?

Why you lost your power then batteries seems worth further evaluation.

 

[magna 6882]

It was the ground fault on the shore power cord that tripped.My theory is the guys were waxing and buffing and the weather wax fog and rain. I think there cords may have been on deck. I think they used my deck power outlets.They wouldnt know they tripped the shore power since they were using my batterys. The second problem was there were lights turned on.

 

[koliver]

It was the ground fault on the shore power cord that tripped.My theory is the guys were waxing and buffing and the weather wax fog and rain. I think there cords may have been on deck. I think they used my deck power outlets.They wouldnt know they tripped the shore power since they were using my batterys. The second problem was there were lights turned on.

Is there some reason you leave your inverter "on" when you are away from the boat? Any local power outage will deplete your batteries and you won't know about that depletion.
If you have a monitor you check from home, it will not show you the power outage unless the inverter is left "off". Then you can investigate and fix any problems before your batteries get to be a secondary problem.

 

[gsholz]

Most inverters have an option to select a "charge" only mode vs "full on" (inverting and charging). When you leave a boat or RV for several days it is important to leave your inverter(s) in charge only mode. When the power fails the inverter will not draw down your batteries. In your case, the detailers would have had no power.

 

[ScottC]

Many years ago, I had a SeaFire system installed. I still have it. I opted to have a siren installed instead of the automatic shutdown feature. If that siren goes off, I know I need to shut down the engine immediately in order to ensure the extinguishing gas is not immediately sucked out of the engine room. I know this solution is not without flaw & risk, but I want to be the one to decide whether or not to shut the engine off if I am, for example, crossing the path of an oncoming ship at the moment a fire breaks out.

In a couple of years, I will have to replace the system because it will be 10 years old. I am grateful for this thread as it has made me aware of some alternatives...and other aspects to think about.

 

[Steve DAntonio]

A manual bypass for connected equipment, using a covered/protected switch so it can't be actuated inadvertently, is a worthy addition to any fixed fire fighting system, regardless of brand.

When you spoke to sea fire did they say this was a normal reaction to loss of power?

 

[magna 6882]

The fella at sea fire didnt mention how common this is. I don't think it was the loss of power as much as the power just slowing going down to a voltage level the control unit couldn't deal with causing it to be non-responsive. What is was surprised with is how dangerous this could be. My first thought when having a dead helm was not the seafire. I was looking for power supply problems at the engine and battery's which tested good. I think both my engine bank and generator bank were fine they just appeared to be dead due to the seafire malfunction.I am still waiting for a wire diagram to confirm where it gets its power.

 

[Steve DAntonio]

But did Sea Fire say this is normal after a dead battery event? I encounter a lot of Sea Fire systems and I can't recall having had this happen.

 

[magna 6882]

But did Sea Fire say this is normal after a dead battery event? I encounter a lot of Sea Fire systems and I can't recall having had this happen.

I dont recall the word normal being used but he was quick to suggest pulling power and re-booting so it didn't sound like a hail marry move.