Black water discharge

[KevinCT]

Here's the "poop" on MSD's:

Type I Flow-through treatment devices that commonly use maceration and disinfection for the treatment of sewage May be installed only on vessels less than or equal to 65 feet in length
Must produce an effluent with:

No visible floating solids
A fecal coliform bacterial count not greater than 1000 per 100 milliliters

Type II Flow-through treatment devices that may employ biological treatment and disinfection (some Type II MSDs may use maceration and disinfection) May be installed on vessels of any length
Must produce an effluent with:

A fecal coliform bacterial count not greater than 200 per 100 milliliters
No more than 150 milligrams of total suspended solids per liter

Type III Typically a holding tank where sewage is stored until it can be discharged shore-side or at sea (beyond three miles from shore) May be installed on vessels of any length No performance standard; must "be designed to prevent the overboard discharge of treated or untreated sewage or any waste derived from sewage." 33 CFR 159.53(c) (PDF)(2 pp, 163 K)).

[kenk]

Pop Yachts brokers are really not brokers to begin with. They are salemen off the street with no or little knowledge of boats. I had one of POP Yacht "brokers" try selling my boat and the guy never even looked inside of the boat. How the heck can you sell something you never even seen completely?
I would never trust a POP broker.

[friz]

Originally Posted by kenk

Pop Yachts brokers are really not brokers to begin with. They are salemen off the street with no or little knowledge of boats. I had one of POP Yacht "brokers" try selling my boat and the guy never even looked inside of the boat. How the heck can you sell something you never even seen completely?
I would never trust a POP broker.

I got the same impression of the "broker". I have moved on.

[HeadMistress]

Type III Typically a holding tank....
...But is any device intended to receive and retain, but not discharge, human body waste and the waste from toilets. That includes not only holding tanks, but portapotties, composters and even a bucket...which makes "bucket and chuck it" as illegal as dumping a holding tank inside the 3 mile limit.

Although US marine sanitation law only requires a Type I treatment device to reduce bacteria count to max of 1,000/100ml, the Raritan LectraSan, ElectroScan and PuraSan reduce it to <10/100 milileter. The Groco ThermoPure, which uses heat (and requires 115v/AC power) reduces it to -0-.

Type II MSDs only use bio-active products to assist maceration in breaking down and liquifying solid waste and TP, but disinfection requires chemicals (typically chlorine).

Although Type II is allowed on vessels of any length, it's the only choice for any vessel 66'+. Type IIs are so much bigger, more complex and more expensive than any Type I that few people would even consider a Type II for any boat smaller than that (although I've run into a few who have).

--Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by dhays

As for being underpowered, that all depends on the type of boat and its use.

Exactly. 135 hp is PLENTY to push most any 48' boat to hull speed. If you want to go faster (and use a lot more fuel in the process) then you need more horsepower. But for hull speed cruising -- more than enough.

[Moonfish]

Originally Posted by HeadMistress

That inspector doesn't seem to be any more familiar with the correct terminology than the broker was!

To anyone familiar with correct terminology, the term "macerator" (short for "macerator pump") refers to a separate freestanding PUMP that has a macerator blade in it, commonly used to dump a holding tank. No one would call a macerating electric toilet just a "macerator"...nor would anyone refer to a treatment device as just a "macerator" (or a pair of them). You're quite right that doing so would not only be confusing, but totally misleading.

So what you really have is a macerating electric toilet and a Type I treatment device, which is entirely legal in all waters not specifically designated to be a "no discharge" zone (NDZ).

And btw, if you check the exploded drawings and parts lists for the ElectroScan ElectroScan owners manual and PuraSan Raritan PuraSan EX owners manual , I think you'll find that both only have ONE macerator blade, that you're mistaking the mixer impeller for a second one.


--Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

I am so glad you are here to explain these things, Peggy! There are still a lot of people (boaters AND brokers...) that don't understand the differences in marine sanitation systems, let alone know the laws governing onboard sewage in their own areas!

[HeadMistress]

Thank you for the kind words. And fwiw (stand by for shameless plug), everything I wrote that you quoted--and whole lot more useful info--is in my book.



--Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

[Carl Martin]

The Florida Keys are a No discharge Zone. No treated sewage can be dumped overboard.

[Caysea]

Hi All
Interesting reads on internet about said brokerage. I had researched them after hearing other stories in the past. Always good idea to pop (lol) into the internet and and research who you are doing business with.

[Tingum]

Pop Yachts! He was probably selling used cars last week. RUN!

[terry n]

if it is an older boat it could be legal. my son had a 1973 bluewater houseboat with a head that was direct overboard discharge.

[HopCar]

Originally Posted by terry n

if it is an older boat it could be legal. my son had a 1973 bluewater houseboat with a head that was direct overboard discharge.

Nope, no grandfather clause. When the law went into effect all the existing boats needed to add a tank or treatment system.

[HeadMistress]

Originally Posted by terry n

if it is an older boat it could be legal. my son had a 1973 bluewater houseboat with a head that was direct overboard discharge.

Unless it was also equipped with a USCG Certified Type I or II MSD (treatment device) in addition to the toilet, it wasn't legal. You'll find the US marine sanitation regs in 40 CFR 140.3.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/40/140.3

Paragraph 2(e) "grandfathers" older boats on No Discharge waters. However several states refuse to accept that and have made it so prohibitively expensive to fight it that few if any owners have tried to do so.

-Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

[dhays]

Originally Posted by HeadMistress

Although US marine sanitation law only requires a Type I treatment device to reduce bacteria count to max of 1,000/100ml, the Raritan LectraSan, ElectroScan and PuraSan reduce it to <10/100 milileter. The Groco ThermoPure, which uses heat (and requires 115v/AC power) reduces it to -0-.

Thanks for that. I was thinking about mentioning how the Raritan system exceed the 1,000/100ml requirement for Type I device, but I couldn't remember the number. I didn't even know the Groco existed.

[Theduke1948]

I’m looking to buy a 1986 GB36 without a black water tank. The 3 mile rule applies here in Aus. Can a b w tank be installed in a GB36 without a long run?