Best Trawler Type (or brand) for Off Shore

[Alaskaflyer]

That video is two boats crossing a bar returning from the Tasman Sea, at Greymouth IIRC. I find it interesting because the lead boat is sporting a batwing. Otherwise it could be any open Pacific bar crossing

 

[socalrider]

For true offshore work I think I would go back to sail. This discussion highlights the limitations of most of what’s out there under $1m. There’s a really nice Stevens 47 on YW for $100k that could likely be made ready for a circumnavigation with another $50-100k.

That said, it’s purely hypothetical as my wife and family have zero interest in long offshore passages, hence the coastal trawler that suits 99% or us much better.

 

[guy with a boat]

Fish if I can impose again. For nearly the last decade been doing two non stop passages per year. Either Norfolk/Hampton/oriental to ViIs or Antigua or Newport to those Caribbean destinations in the fall (November). And Antigua or BVI to Newport in the spring.
From the benefit of your and Peter’s experience and expertise it seems that will need modification. Down will be inside the Gulf Stream until the straits of Florida. Then straight shot across one of the cuts to the Caribbean Sea. Once on the non Atlantic side of the islands then go to those destinations in the fall. Island hopping up the chain during the winter picking up the Gulf Stream north of the straights of Florida to Newport in the spring.
From your experience does that sound reasonable in a small recreational trawler? Sorry about the thread hijack but thought others might be interested as well.

Hippo, I’m not Fish but have a couple thoughts to consider.

Unless you purely just enjoy the long offshore passage for its own sake, or have serious time constraints, I don’t know why you wouldn’t do some version of running the coast and island-hopping. We find it much more enjoyable (personal preference) and it also reduces to near zero the risk of being caught in dangerous offshore weather. Not only do you get to see more great places by stopping along the way, but you should always be in range of shelter within your window of reliable forecasting. A little change in routing can eliminate the need to buy and live with a boat that will survive a hurricane.

You can make some great stops going down the coast, cross to the Bahamas and island hop your way down to Turks and beyond. There are still a couple longer runs, but easily manageable (500ish miles by memory) within a reliable weather forecast window. You also have the option to stop when desired, stretch your legs and see a new place. You can even mix in a full night’s sleep here and there on anchor or tied to a dock if you feel like it.

I definitely appreciate and want a capable boat, but short of actually crossing an ocean, routing adjustments can make the risk of encountering hellacious weather almost irrelevant. You can buy or build a boat that will survive off-season ocean crossing, but the cost and compromise required aren’t worth it for most of us.

On the other hand, if you just love long passages and the challenge of being ready for any possible conditions, I can appreciate that also. Boating isn’t an entirely logical pursuit and any version that you find enjoyable is the right one.

 

[OldDan1943]

To review a bit....
https://yachtsinvest.com/faq/ce-yacht-compliance-classification/
The AT34 has a B CE rating. Ie, can go off shore up to about 200 miles. If you see my boat out 200 miles, come board my boat and rescue me. LOL

 

[Hippocampus]

Was figuring running down east coast then down island chain on the Caribbean Sea side. Basically a modification of the time honored gentleman’s way. Was going to make use of the range of the vessels under consideration. Turning west only when weather dictates. Was thinking the modification from straight shot passage ( 1500-2000 m) to near coastal would suffice thereby avoiding gale or storm force systems and possibly being exposed to brief squalls as the worst weather. . So far have had sufficient judgment about timing and advanced notice to have been exposed to storm force only once in 30+ years. That was on a very coastal trip ( southwest harbor to Duxbury in the spring) and before current technologies. For me I use near coastal as being on the shelf and within helicopter range. Perhaps mistakenly use off shore as being outside those parameters.
I’ve found going west throughout the islands is much easier than east. Similarly going north along the US coast much easier than south. Rather do my stops along the easier direction and get to the windwards using jumps when there’s a secure weather window. Schedules kill. I’m retired. Stops getting there are dictated by those weather windows. Stops the other way will be as mood strikes us and weather permits.
Yes, I very much enjoy offshore and the rhythm of life when on passage. But I also enjoy living. In my question I stated how we did it in sail isn’t a reasonable risk in small powered vessels that are lightly crewed. This thread has discussed sportfish, SD and FD. I continue to ask advice if a well found FD boat designed and outfitted for this program presents a reasonable alternative to sail.

Old Dan’s 200 m is 33.333 hours at 6 kts. Even when WAVES are coming off west Africa every week you have enough time to seek harbor with this program. Range is no more than 100m offshore at anytime and usually significantly less. Agree with Dan the EU system is very faulty and refers to newly constructed boats perfectly maintained, no deterioration, and well outfitted. Once out of the shop that rating maybe not reflect reality. Prefer ABYC even with all it’s warts.

 

[OldDan1943]

If you are going north and want to extend your range, ride the Gulf Stream.
Going south? Stay a mile or two out from shore. Watch for lobster traps.

Has anyone considered hauling a lobster trap, grab a couple of lobsters and putting a reasonable amount of cash in a water tight container for the owner of the trap?????

 

[ddw36]

Thanks Fish. So if contemplating this activity in a recreational boat of smaller size you’re likely not have passive techniques at your disposal. Hence, great attention must be paid to redundant fuel filtering and bulletproof engine systems. Having 2 independent AP systems would be a plus and great attention to the strength of the steering mechanisms. From what you’ve saying a modified DD or N are the only current choices in my price range of ~$1m or less unless I come across a one off designed for that use, the current discussion above about running would seem moot as being overwhelmed is an unacceptable risk.

If you haven't already, I'd suggest reviewing the DDs, esp. the steel-hulled DD462, which I think is available new for under $1m.


Claes Brodin is a Swedish doctor, who has owned a 462 for a number of years. Bought it used from a seller w/ whom he's still in touch re: some problems unrelated to the integrity of the hull or the boat, itself. Seems some DD owners keep in touch, altho I don't think there's an owners' assoc. Here is a recent post by Dr. Brodin, commenting on repairs needed to his 462 after colliding w/ rocks ashore.

South Pacific Familyadventure 2008 - Haulout,survey and repair of a well built boat


You may enjoy his blog and already be aware of several other DD blogs.

 

[Art]

I've also watched that video and while it is confused and very turbulent it's not a very big sea and doesn't appear to be open water offshore. I get that many on here have never been in a fifty or sixty foot sea with winds exceeding 80kts, and no one expects them to have been. It's easy to scoff at the possibility of encountering such conditions or pretend that so and so boat can handle those conditions but until you've actually done it I'm afraid it's all conjecture. I've been in those conditions numerous times on boats as small as 70 feet and trust me you don't want to be there in a small planing or SD hull pleasure boat regardless of tactics.

As you say:

"I get that many on here have never been in a fifty or sixty foot sea with winds exceeding 80kts..."

"... you don't want to be there in a small planing or SD hull pleasure boat regardless of tactics."

What I say and mean:

For God's Sake of course not. However, those sea conditions are not what is being discussed... at least not what my experience is and not what I'm implying regarding pleasure boat handling in relatively mellow following sea conditions.

 

[Fish53]

As you say:

"I get that many on here have never been in a fifty or sixty foot sea with winds exceeding 80kts..."

"... you don't want to be there in a small planing or SD hull pleasure boat regardless of tactics."

What I say and mean:

For God's Sake of course not. However, those sea conditions are not what is being discussed... at least not what my experience is and not what I'm implying regarding pleasure boat handling in relatively mellow following sea conditions.

If you read what I wrote there and elsewhere I believe I was very specific as to my definition of "offshore" as relates to my comments. Obviously I need to go to a sailboat forum where "offshore" doesn't mean five miles from the marina.

 

[backinblue]

Unfortunately, "offshore" does not have a strict definition so it can mean different things to different people. If you want to have a discussion about offshore boating, it would be better to define what you mean. The definitions are vague. I did find at least one definition that said: "Offshore means situated or happening in the sea, near to the coast."

 

[Fish53]

Unfortunately, "offshore" does not have a strict definition so it can mean different things to different people. If you want to have a discussion about offshore boating, it would be better to define what you mean. The definitions are vague. I did find at least one definition that said: "Offshore means situated or happening in the sea, near to the coast."

Well the USCG seems to think it's 200 nautical miles from land, inside that they call "near coastal" so I sort of follow their lead.

 

[backinblue]

Offshore oil rigs are generally several miles from shore, usually not hundreds. So it is easy to have conflicting interpretations if you don't qualify it. The OP said he wants to fish off the coast, but never really said how far out.

 

[Fish53]

Offshore oil rigs are generally several miles from shore, usually not hundreds. So it is easy to have conflicting interpretations if you don't qualify it. The OP said he wants to fish off the coast, but never really said how far out.

I suppose the term "offshore" has had the definition diminished over the years to one of relative insignificance. When I was running oil field supply boats there were shallow water rigs and offshore rigs, most I serviced were over 100 miles out. In the shipping industry they like "deep water" in the fishing industry they don't care inside the EEZ. This is why elsewhere I stated a definition for my comments of it being a distance too far from shelter to run from weather. In other words if your boat or you can't take it you're screwed sort of distance.

 

[rslifkin]

Well the USCG seems to think it's 200 nautical miles from land, inside that they call "near coastal" so I sort of follow their lead.

That's probably a good term for all of us around here to start using. Realistically, I think a lot of us tend to refer to anything in unprotected ocean waters (not a sound, bay, etc.) as "offshore" regardless of distance from land.

 

[Fish53]

The USCG licensing goes, Inland, which is out to the demarcation line. Near Coastal, out 200 nm. Oceans, over 200 nm. There's also Great Lakes which is sort of part of Inland. Whether those can be used as a definition for discussions I don't know but you're right some standardization would avoid a little of the confusion.

 

[OldDan1943]

Gotta love it. We cant even get a firm definition of a 'trawler' and now, we want a definition of 'off shore'?

 

[Fish53]

Gotta love it. We cant even get a firm definition of a 'trawler' and now, we want a definition of 'off shore'?

Well we can all agree that we all have an opinion, I have mine, you have yours, they have theirs, they are apparently all different but at least there is one consensus, we all have an opinion.

 

[OldDan1943]

Well we can all agree that we all have an opinion, I have mine, you have yours, they have theirs, they are apparently all different but at least there is one consensus, we all have an opinion.

Have we yet to tackle the definition of a boat? LOL

 

[socalrider]

Have we yet to tackle the definition of a boat? LOL

"A hole in the water into which money is thrown" - we can all agree on that right?

 

[backinblue]

Can't argue with that one!

 

[Hippocampus]

I’m totally in agreement with Fish and have used the USGC definition all my life. My insurance companies have as well. It totally drives me nuts to see ads (one on this page) or hear causal talk calling near shore offshore. I used my definition and explained it in my prior post. Agree it’s not fuzzy. It is what it is.
Question remains. In a near shore environment I still feel a properly constructed and manned FD is the weapon of choice for long term cruising. Sportfish and sd are fine for short jumps but if you’re going to cruise “in season” internationally the choice is obvious. Further contend the program I outlined above is doable at reasonable risk in vessels under or at 50’ loa.
Looking at our history, even with MMCC, given our experiences with Parker and CommandersWeather, the straight shot with a possible Bermuda stop isn’t that unreasonable. We’ve only seen squalls. Once disagreed with Chris and missed force 7-8 in the stream and the Caribbean 1500 got hit once when commanders was off. But as recorded N,KK, DD and various one offs have gone RTW. Of interest for N mostly in boats under 50’.

 

[Hippocampus]

These discussions should focus on physics and basic realities. Boats dependent on form stability are more at risk. Boats that can’t survive a knockdown are more at risk. Boats with unfavorable Gz curves are more at risk. Boats subject to down flooding are more at risk.
The Seapiper is not an offshore boat imho. Too small ( resistance to capsize and pitchpoling is in major part a function of size, AVS, displacement and speed of clearance of green water), camping not living on passage so fatiguing on crew, and mechanical access difficulty in a seaway( several dedicated bluewater cats have gotten into trouble when trying to access the engine(s) via a deck hatch. A boarding sea flooded everything out. We had that mode of access on a pacific Seacraft 34. Basically the engine was off limits when it got sporty). . That ad drives me nuts. It’s a great coastal boat for the money and it’s very thoughtfully designed. But it isn’t an offshore boat.

 

[Fish53]

These discussions should focus on physics and basic realities. Boats dependent on form stability are more at risk. Boats that can’t survive a knockdown are more at risk. Boats with unfavorable Gz curves are more at risk. Boats subject to down flooding are more at risk.
The Seapiper is not an offshore boat imho. Too small ( resistance to capsize and pitchpoling is in major part a function of size, AVS, displacement and speed of clearance of green water), camping not living on passage so fatiguing on crew, and mechanical access difficulty in a seaway. That ad drives me nuts.

I always thought something like this might make a fair offshore powerboat.

 

[Hippocampus]

 

[backinblue]

I don't remember Sandpiper saying their boat is "offshore" capable. However, in the strict definition that you guys want to adhere to, I could cruise to the Bahamas or Cuba, in fact most of the Carribean, and not be offshore? Not trying to argue, but 100 miles from land is still not offshore?

 

[socalrider]

I always thought something like this might make a fair offshore powerboat.View attachment 119105

Oooh - is that the new Suppository 38?

 

[HTurner]

 

[OldDan1943]

I always thought something like this might make a fair offshore powerboat.View attachment 119105

Electric driven. I saw pictures of the custom interior somewhere. Not sold on it. Too Spartan

 

[Alaskaflyer]

Fairly , I think for many people outside means offshore. For many, they are not interested in traveling outside sheltered waters. Such as sounds or waterways. Seas can get sporty but seldom truly dangerous for anything other than small crafts. Others venture outside all the time, but they don’t nor do they want to experience off shore conditions or travel somewhere requiring true offshore routes.

 

[guy with a boat]

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=119105&thumb=1&d=1625583851[/IMG]

This is what you end up with when you get obsessed with the fear of infinitesimally small risks. Its like wearing a kevlar bodysuit every time you go swimming in the ocean because it is theoretically possible that a shark will eat you.