Batteries

[gonesailing13]

Am looking for recommendations for new batteries. I always had golf cart batteries on our sailboat but want to go with 12v. Had good luck with Trojans but was wondering what everyone else thinks. Don’t have a lot of space for a house bank but could fit four 12v. Just curious.

 

[tiltrider1]

12v lead acid batteries do not make good house banks. You will probably do better with 4 golf cart batteries.

 

[gonesailing13]

Will four golf cart batteries give close to the same output as the 12v of more ?

 

[DavidM]

Yes.

GC bateries are usually rated at 220 Ah at 6V. So four wired in a series/parallel configuration provide 440 Ahs. Most 12V batteries are rated at 100 Ah for a G31 battery. So four wired in parallel give 400 Ahs.

It is very doubtful that 12V batteries are true deep cycle batteries built with heavy plates, and lots of electrolyte room above and below the plates.

See my article on the subject in the Library section of this forum- click the upper right icon to get there.

David

 

[Bacchus]

This may also be of interest.
You can get deep cycle 12V but I think in the end they will be more $/AH.
https://marinehowto.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/01-What-Is-A-Deep-Cycle-Battery.jpg

 

[Wxx3]

Why I went with LiFePO4

My four 8Ds are virtually dead.
The replacement choice was between LA Dyno 6V gulf carts or LiFePO4.

A big factor as to why I went with the LiFePO4 is that I want to be able to add on the battery bank when I have more money.
A secondary factor is that batteries must be shipped to Alaska at about $0.35/lb.

Here is a table I made:

 

[bshillam]

My four 8Ds are virtually dead.
The replacement choice was between LA Dyno 6V gulf carts or LiFePO4.

A big factor as to why I went with the LiFePO4 is that I want to be able to add on the battery bank when I have more money.
A secondary factor is that batteries must be shipped to Alaska at about $0.35/lb.

Here is a table I made:

I am curious, can you include the link of the battery you selected? I have six house batteries that are God only knows how old. But I do know they don't hold much of a charge. One night w/ just frig and a few outlets running and they're under 50%. Leads me to believe they're close to EOL.

 

[ksanders]

I am replacing my 9 year old house bank and two engine starting batteries next week.

The old house bank was interstate L16HC FLA units and the engine batteries 8D’s.


The replacements are exactly the same, except I went with Crown brand batteries.

Four CR430 which are a L16 battery rated at 430 amp hours.

Why did I stay with Flooded Lead Acid???

Simple, they work. They are proven a technology with over a hundred years of stable operation. No surprises.

They are easy to maintain, and cost effective both in up front costs, as well as lifecycle costs.

For me, on my boat, I saw zero to gain by using either AGM, carbon foam, or LiFePo4 technologies, and yes I studied each technology extensively.

Others may disagree and for them the benefits of other technologies make sense for them, on their boats. For me, FLA gets the job done.

If it’s interesting my DC charging system consists of...

1. Xantrex SW3000 150 amp inverter/charger
2. Balmar 120 amp alternator
3. Xantrex prosine 40 amp charger as a installed backup unit.

 

[Flatswing]

Interesting point about the shipping charges to Alaska making LiFeP04 more attractive.
I am in the FLA camp whenever practical - 4 GC2 per side for start/back up. 4 L16's for house but 8D AGM's for 24v stern & bow thrusters as poor access. G31 AGM for the generator & dinghy. for a grand total of 18 batteries! I gotta look after them!
Living in golf country, I find GC batteries are least expensive at the golf cart dealers where the premium term marine is unknown & they literally buy them by the pallet load. Trojans for less than $100 usually

 

[O C Diver]

Trojan does make deep cycle 12 volt batteries in a number of sizes, including some that are taller if you have the space. Their website lists all the available sizes on one page. The issue is shipping cost as others have said. The large volume Trojan dealers get something equivalent to free freight when buying large volumes. If you can wait, placing an order with a dealer when they get a large shipment, can save you a great deal.

Ted

 

[Martin J]

I have had Trojans deep cycle L16's on 2 boats before. They performed flawlessly with my solar systems etc. They also have a advantage of higher than normal space above the plates meaning less maintenance, coupled with high capacity means less heavy discharging extending life. There are a number of Trojan Master disributor's in Alaska so shopping one supposes will be greatly reduced
https://tools.trojanbattery.com/dealers.aspx

 

[ksanders]

There are plenty of battery distributors in Alaska if you are in the Anchorage area.

Trojan, crown, interstate,

Plenty of stock on most models as well, and pretty comparable prices.

For folks in the south eastern part of the state Span Alaska, Lyndon, and AML all offer inexpensive freight forwarding services with Seattle area drop points.

For less than $200 I can get a few hundred pounds of freight from Seattle to Anchorage, and my son used AML I think when he lived in Ketchikan and Juneau.

 

[AlanT]

Why did I stay with Flooded Lead Acid???

Simple, they work. They are proven a technology with over a hundred years of stable operation. No surprises.

They are easy to maintain, and cost effective both in up front costs, as well as lifecycle costs.

Your decision of course and works for you. I had a similar boat (4788) with old tired wet cell batteries when I purchased it. In my case the battery boxes extended forward from the stbd lazarette under the part bulkhead and into the engine room. This arrangement made it impossible to properly maintain the water content or to test the acid/water in most of the individual cells. Knowing that what I cannot reach will not be maintained, I decided to incur the additional expense of Lifeline AGMs which are zero maintenance and IMO better suited to that location. I recovered from the price shock after a while, and never regretted the lack of required maintenance.

~Alan

 

[Wxx3]

I am curious, can you include the link of the battery you selected? I have six house batteries that are God only knows how old. But I do know they don't hold much of a charge. One night w/ just frig and a few outlets running and they're under 50%. Leads me to believe they're close to EOL.

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/33054...r_id=a93898d9ada14897b74cba3e516926e8&is_c=N*

Here is a link to the same cells, $85 per 3.2v 200ah cells.

I'm also a big fan of Wil Prouse

Here is a link to his forum.
His YouTube videos are great.

https://diysolarforum.com/forums/marine.10/

Lastly, this switch was made easier because Ihad to replace my inverter charger

 

[Pete Meisinger]

You don't say how big your M.T. is. If it is under about 40 feet, three group 27 deep cycle batteries should satisfy your needs. I carry four on my 36 foot Albin but one of them is not connected to anything. If somehow I manage to kill my house bank I can run a jumper to keep the bilge pump going or maybe some mast lights or the radio until I can get the genny running.

It could step in to get the genny started if that battery died or most importantly it will jump the main engine if needed.

I am prudent with my house draw but have never even noticed the lights start to yellow with three group 27 batteries.

pete

 

[ksanders]

Your decision of course and works for you. I had a similar boat (4788) with old tired wet cell batteries when I purchased it. In my case the battery boxes extended forward from the stbd lazarette under the part bulkhead and into the engine room. This arrangement made it impossible to properly maintain the water content or to test the acid/water in most of the individual cells. Knowing that what I cannot reach will not be maintained, I decided to incur the additional expense of Lifeline AGMs which are zero maintenance and IMO better suited to that location. I recovered from the price shock after a while, and never regretted the lack of required maintenance.

~Alan

Thanks Allan!

My house batteries are in the stbd lazarette but fully aft under the hatch. My stbd engine battery is a bit fwd, but since it is shorter there is plenty of room for maint.

I went with flooded because I had a situation in a truck where the keys got left on and the two almost new AGM batteries were ruined.

On my boat, it was left with the shore pedistle breaker off after the harbor moved it a long time ago. The almost new interstate FLA batteries fully discharged, and stayed that way for two weeks while I was away.

I hit those FLA batteries with the charger, they took current, and I used those very same batteries for another 8 seasons.

That performance sold me on keeping my FLA batteries, because if they were AGM’s I would have lost the bank.

 

[FF]

"Will four golf cart batteries give close to the same output as the 12v of more ?"

Usually the amps in the GC batts amps will be higher as there is more lead , and the lead is the bank account.

The spacers in a 12v batt take up room , but do not add to the working amps .Same sized cases.

Some 6v GC will not be much heavier as the mfg frequently leave more space under the plates so broken off lead will not short the batt out.

 

[FoxtrotCharlie]

We have been very pleased with our 4 CG batteries as house bank. 45 amp charger. 160amp alt on stbd engine and 60amp on port. We run a 3000w pure sine wave inverter, and have a 9k quiet generator. Two large 12v cranking batteries - probably too large for our FL 135's. This set-up has worked well in our first 1000 miles of cruising on the Tenn-Tom and TN rivers. We run the inverter for frig and icemaker on cruising days we don't need A/C or heat - gen on those days. The large 160 alt keeps all batteries topped off - I can combine all batteries, or not.

 

[Bacchus]

Am looking for recommendations for new batteries. I always had golf cart batteries on our sailboat but want to go with 12v. Had good luck with Trojans but was wondering what everyone else thinks. Don’t have a lot of space for a house bank but could fit four 12v. Just curious.

Just wondering what is driving you towards 12V instead of 6V GCs?

What are your priorities? Any undesirable experiences w/ 6Vs

Max AHs... Lowest cost... Min maintenance... Availability?... other?

 

[AlanT]

Thanks Allan!

My house batteries are in the stbd lazarette but fully aft under the hatch. My stbd engine battery is a bit fwd, but since it is shorter there is plenty of room for maint.

I went with flooded because I had a situation in a truck where the keys got left on and the two almost new AGM batteries were ruined.

On my boat, it was left with the shore pedistle breaker off after the harbor moved it a long time ago. The almost new interstate FLA batteries fully discharged, and stayed that way for two weeks while I was away.

I hit those FLA batteries with the charger, they took current, and I used those very same batteries for another 8 seasons.

That performance sold me on keeping my FLA batteries, because if they were AGM’s I would have lost the bank.

That is interesting and I hadn't thought of that. I did have a similar incident. The local yard put my boat back in the water and on one of their slips after as I was out of town. I don't recall how long I was away, but at least a week and I similarly came back to completely dead house batteries and a shore cord unplugged. I was furious as the Lifeline AGMs were only 6 months old at the time. They did come back after charging, and I was never able to detect a decrease in performance, but I never intentionally discharge below 60% so I don't really have a basis to compare and can't really say that I am sure the performance did not deteriorate. My new boat (waiting for the border to open in order to pick it up) has a brand new set of wet cells so I will definitely be back in the watering and checking business for a few years at least. ~Alan

 

[Bacchus]

Kevin, Alan,
As another anecdotal experience I had a new AGM 8D run flat dead due to a bilge pump hose coming loose. It wasnt down more than few days - a week max.
It came back up and I have not noticed any long term degradation in performance.
My understanding is AGMs don't like being left down for extended times but I thought FLAs were similar in that regard.

 

[MurrayM]

Just wondering...does anybody have just one battery bank, with just one simple on/off switch and all the simplicity which would then follow?

I'm pondering this, with a fairly large Genius Boost lithium jump starter rated for diesel engines larger than we have on our boat as backup.

 

[Island Cessna]

One night w/ just frig and a few outlets running and they're under 50%. Leads me to believe they're close to EOL.

I have an older 2000 watt inverter. If I leave it on with any load connected (think cell phone charger, the microwave electronics) it draws significant amps, maybe as much as 1/2 of the fridge. I turn it off when not specifically in use when not on shore power or running. I have added enough 12v USB chargers etc so 110 is only needed for microwave, Kuerig or the vacuum in daily life. Different inverters will be different result, but to get this one to its modest “idle” power draw it must be truly idle.

 

[gonesailing13]

Our present boat has 12v batteries but they need to be changed. Have had GC batteries on our old boat, no problems.

 

[rcsomany]

Have you considered Firefly?

 

[Adagio43]

Rolls

Dumb question: does anyone use Rolls anymore. If not why not.
Thanks

 

[AlanT]

Have you considered Firefly?

Thanks for sharing that video of the Firefly - very interesting. When I next need to replace house batteries I will certainly be considering these new technologies and as the promoter noted its not the rated capacity of the battery that is most important it is the depth of acceptable discharge and number of cycles. If these can really be discharged 80% without impacting cycle life that is a game changer.
~Alan

 

[MurrayM]

Thanks for sharing that video of the Firefly - very interesting. When I next need to replace house batteries I will certainly be considering these new technologies and as the promoter noted its not the rated capacity of the battery that is most important it is the depth of acceptable discharge and number of cycles. If these can really be discharged 80% without impacting cycle life that is a game changer.
~Alan

...and can be stored for long periods with a partial charge without harm. That's a big bonus as well.

 

[Brooksie]

In your case, going from 6v to 12v batteries means, if I understand what you have, going from series to parallel connection of your batteries. That connection will not be broken by your battery switch either.
Unless the batteries are all the same make, model, & age; they will fight each other. Later when one needs replacing, you must replace the pair or they will really fight each other. If you should have a shorted cell in one battery, you have a distinct fire hazard having another fully charged battery in parallel with the bad one.
Paralleling batteries is unavoidable in large banks. In a small 2 battery banks you have the opportunity to have them in series. I wouldn't give that up.

 

[Brooksie]

Dumb question: does anyone use Rolls anymore. If not why not.
Thanks

I bought a Rolls battery once. Or should I say I was sold one. Part of the pitch was that the cells could be replaced if needed. When that time came they said they no longer did it see you later.
I could have bought two normal batteries for what I paid. Once bitten twice shy.

I am very happy using WalMart RV deep cycle batteries and they have always lasted 3,4, sometimes 5 years.