Bow Damage during delivery

[Grahambda]

Unfortunately, after nearing the end of a 1,400-mile delivery, our new-to-us DF 44, driven by our delivery Captain, had to take action to avoid a collision with a small craft that cut across him, hit the bow on a metal marker and crunched the port bow taking out a couple of stanchions and ripping up around 6ft of teak top cap and along with some fibreglass and gel coat damage. The irony was it was his last 80-mile stretch on the way to home port in Tarpon Springs. Both Captain and we are needless to say gutted :-(

Now we have to find a good fibreglass repair shop, any recommendations? ideally in the Tampa area?

Now fighting with the insurance company, although it was the delivery Captain at the helm, we lose our 20% no claims and stays on our record for 5 years!

 

[Choices]

River Forest is very good. Problem you will have is timing, all yards in that area will have storm boats.

Try Sanders in Orange Beach. Far enough away for you to get in quick. Just a couple days away.

 

[sunchaser]

Sorry about this situation. Two questions, was the other vessel insured and which vessel was giveaway?

 

[Grahambda]

Sorry about this situation. Two questions, was the other vessel insured and which vessel was giveaway?

Apparently, the other boat was a small centre console - no name and didn't stop, other boat should have gone port to port but didn't.

 

[Eli27]

Makes you wonder if youre out there and you know you are the stand on vessel if you should just stay on course and let it ride. Im not advocating for accidents because at that point we are putting lives at danger but,,,,

Also what comes to mind,,,, AIS. Is there a way to enforce all boaters get AIS? Put a program in place (in the AIS program) to be able to record10min before and 10 min after a possible collision.

With a system like that in place, douchbags who shouldnt be on the water and dont stop after causing an accident will be found and brought to justice.

I know some will say we just want to be left alone on the water. We dont want anyone outside our close group of family and friends to know where we are. "Big brother is always watching".

Yeah i get it. But up here with the people that i know who say that and go out for a few day/weeks always make sure they have there cell phones with them. Yes, they always know where you are unless you shut EVERYTHING off!

just my expensive .02

Eli

 

[mvweebles]

A friend has used Viking Boatworks in St Petersburg and has been happy. Not exactly close to you though.

General question - what is the accident reporting protocol here? I'd assume the insurance company wants am accident report, would this be USCG, or local law enforcement?

OP - sorry your delivery did not go well. Did this happen in the channel to Tarpon or enroute? Curious about what local law enforcement would have jurisdiction.

Peter

 

[rslifkin]

Makes you wonder if youre out there and you know you are the stand on vessel if you should just stay on course and let it ride. Im not advocating for accidents because at that point we are putting lives at danger but,,,,

No, because the rules require the stand on vessel to take action to avoid a collision once it's apparent that the give way vessel will not or cannot on their own due to being too close. Basically, if you collide with another boat, it's at least somewhat your fault even if you were stand on.

 

[mvweebles]

No, because the rules require the stand on vessel to take action to avoid a collision once it's apparent that the give way vessel will not or cannot on their own due to being too close. Basically, if you collide with another boat, it's at least somewhat your fault even if you were stand on.

Yep. That would be Rule 2.

I'm curious how this happened. Assuming a marked channel, DF44 would be in starboard half expecting a port-port pass. If small boat went starboard- starboard, should have plenty of room to evade to port side of channel. If some other type of marker, I suppose a really unique situation.

Really unfortunate regardless.

Peter

 

[Hippocampus]

+1 on post #5. I advocated the same and took a fair amount of guff for it.

Find small boats and especially PWC are the most disrespectful. Was in a large anchorage (Martinique ) with hundreds boats anchored. A PWC was zooming around the anchorage between boats. Hit one broadside. From what I was told driver broke his neck and died. Passenger suffered major injuries as well. Cruisers where sued and deemed partially responsible as they had no black ball up.

 

[Eli27]

No, because the rules require the stand on vessel to take action to avoid a collision once it's apparent that the give way vessel will not or cannot on their own due to being too close. Basically, if you collide with another boat, it's at least somewhat your fault even if you were stand on.

100%! BUT,,, the COLLISION was avoided but the collateral damage from the action taken to avoid said collision should be on the part of the DOUCHBAG!

Im not saying accidents dont happen but ive been on the water enough to know when you have idiots on the water totally disrespecting the rules things happen that shouldnt.

Eli

 

[mvweebles]

Perhaps going to reverse would address Rule 2 obligation to avoid collision and also avoid contact with lateral object. A boat the size of a DF44 doesn't turn any faster than it stops so not sure one maneuver is any better than the other. And if there was contact with the center console, would be on their starboard side highlighting the rules' infraction of the oncoming boat

Peter

 

[Eli27]

+1 on post #5. I advocated the same and took a fair amount of guff for it.

Find small boats and especially PWC are the most disrespectful. Was in a large anchorage (Martinique ) with hundreds boats anchored. A PWC was zooming around the anchorage between boats. Hit one broadside. From what I was told driver broke his neck and died. Passenger suffered major injuries as well. Cruisers where sued and deemed partially responsible as they had no black ball up.

aaawwww, the guy zooming around like an idiot between boats hits an anchored boat and dies. I feel bad. im gonna send some flowers with a thank you note saying "Thanks for letting me know there is one less idiot on the water"

Yes the anchored vessel should be fined,,, $50.00 And forced to make a quick 30 second video on why you shouldnt be zipping around on your pwc around boats at a close distance. That will teach them to remember to put there black ball up.

Ive an idea. Ill go get a PWC and head down to Newport and look for a boat anchored and im sure ill find one without a black ball,,, run into it and sue the owner because there black ball wasnt up.

The rules are the rules i understand,,,, but stupidity sometimes trumps the rules. What am i saying? There are sometimes NO RULES FOR STUPID.

Eli

P.S. Im horrible. I know. But im huge on safety. Ive been known to do some crazy things in my life. But anything i EVER did i always looked at the #1 rule-dont hurt or involve innocent bystanders that have nothing to do with what im doing.

If i hurt or kill myself thats on me. Im not taking anyone with me. My life is my life and i have NO business to involve you (the innocent) with what im doing.

 

[Eli27]

Perhaps going to reverse would address Rule 2 obligation to avoid collision and also avoid contact with lateral object. A boat the size of a DF44 doesn't turn any faster than it stops so not sure one maneuver is any better than the other. And if there was contact with the center console, would be on their starboard side highlighting the rules' infraction of the oncoming boat

Peter

Thats where AIS would help some i think.

Eli

 

[Hippocampus]

Just went through NYC this morning. Few recreational craft so nearly everyone had AIS transceivers. Boy did that lower the stress level and allow just minor course corrections to stay out of the way. It was not yet sun up going from L.I. Sound to hell gate. Then the AIS was a blessing as the radar can’t see around the corners.

Yes agree transceivers should be mandatory.

In this case think the center console was in effect a hit and run. Should be treated the same as a hit and run driver on land.

 

[mvweebles]

Perhaps going to reverse would address Rule 2 obligation to avoid collision and also avoid contact with lateral object. A boat the size of a DF44 doesn't turn any faster than it stops so not sure one maneuver is any better than the other. And if there was contact with the center console, would be on their starboard side highlighting the rules' infraction of the oncoming boat

Peter

Thats where AIS would help some i think.

Eli

Umm....fast approaching vessel on a collision course that immediate evasive action is needed. Checking AIS is not high on the to-do list....

I'm still a bit curious how this played out with an oncoming boat. I can imagine making a stupid mistake - A buddy and I once almost grazed the Blossom Rock (SF Bay) buoy when it was hidden by his genoa (woke-up the resident sea lion). And I remember headed up the Delta back in my W30-days and was transiting one of the large parts of the river - I went to the head and thought my buddy trolling was watching but he wasn't. When I popped my head out, there was a buoy 3-boat lengths dead-ahead (still not sure how I missed it).

Peter

 

[mvweebles]

In this case think the center console was in effect a hit and run. Should be treated the same as a hit and run driver on land.

So what is the reporting obligation? And to whom?

Hoping Psneeld might chime in here....

Peter

 

[Eli27]

Umm....fast approaching vessel on a collision course that immediate evasive action is needed. Checking AIS is not high on the to-do list....

I'm still a bit curious how this played out with an oncoming boat. I can imagine making a stupid mistake - A buddy and I once almost grazed the Blossom Rock (SF Bay) buoy when it was hidden by his genoa (woke-up the resident sea lion). And I remember headed up the Delta back in my W30-days and was transiting one of the large parts of the river - I went to the head and thought my buddy trolling was watching but he wasn't. When I popped my head out, there was a buoy 3-boat lengths dead-ahead (still not sure how I missed it).

Peter

You may have missed the point of the AIS. The AIS would be used to verify the boats in a situation where somebody causes an accident of some kind and doesnt stick around. Hit and run! with the AIS (which would and should be mandatory on all vessels with a motor) you would be able to find who the boat belongs to.

Eli

 

[Eli27]

And before some may go crazy about "oh, now we have to go spend more money on AIS for our boats,,,, $350 bucks for a nice handheld.

Eli

 

[mvweebles]

I didn't miss the point. The day AIS is used for indiscriminate tracking by law enforcement will be a very dark day indeed. The unintended consequences are enormous. I think it was Ben Franklin who said "those who give up freedom for security deserve neither."

Peter

 

[Eli27]

I didn't miss the point. The day AIS is used for indiscriminate tracking by law enforcement will be a very dark day indeed. The unintended consequences are enormous.

Peter

post #5

Eli

P.S. i get it

 

[Eli27]

I didn't miss the point. The day AIS is used for indiscriminate tracking by law enforcement will be a very dark day indeed. The unintended consequences are enormous.

Peter

And one more point, that "very dark day" you say,,,, that ship has sailed many years ago my friend!

Im not trying to argue in any way my friend, the dark days of the government following us is already here. There is ALMOST no way out of it.

Eli

 

[jleonard]

I didn't miss the point. The day AIS is used for indiscriminate tracking by law enforcement will be a very dark day indeed. The unintended consequences are enormous. I think it was Ben Franklin who said "those who give up freedom for security deserve neither."

Peter

I agree 100%.

 

[psneeld]

I think you have to work in law enforecent to begin to understand law enforcement and the tools used.

I wouldnt worry even if LE decided to use AIS anymore than the NSA recording most every cel phone call in the world.

As far as who was at fault...whomever hit the marker was at fault. Usually if no contact in a collision was made, just because they cut you off doesnt mean you get off tbe hook for hitting something else. That is unless you have a ton of forensic evidence proving that no one could have avoided tbe secondary collision/allision due to the actions of the other vessel.

As far as discussing NAVRULEs, so far a very thin, one side of the story isnt even the beginning of a discussion in my mind. Too many "what ifs"", " what about thats....? While sticking to one side of the channel is a premise, it is not an absolute, especially when dealing with smaller vessels.
It wasnt a hit and run in my mind as they werent involded and may not be aware of the subsequent allision.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Sorry for the uninformed question:

Black ball when anchored?

I have never seen this.

 

[psneeld]

Sorry for the uninformed question:

Black ball when anchored?

I have never seen this.

NAVRULES required dayshape for vessels at anchor. Vessels unser a certain size I believe are exempt if not easy to display.

 

[jgwinks]

Sorry for the uninformed question:

Black ball when anchored?

I have never seen this.

I've only seen it once or twice in over 50 years of US boating, and those were on professionally crewed megayachts. They're more commonly used in Europe though. I don't have one, but should, they are required. Nobody cares till someone hits you, then it becomes your fault the other guy is an idiot. Guess I need to make one.

 

[psneeld]

True anchir balls are uncommon, but in my experience cruisers exposed to a lot of the legal aspects of boating are the ones that have and fly them.

May be paranoia, but all too often I hear the comment on TF that many things are no big deal so why not just do them....this falls into that category for me.

 

[Hippocampus]

Key is “indiscriminate “. Same issue applies to anyone with a cellphone. The cellphone doesn’t even need to have GPS. Peter they can find out which side you dress on.
I agree with your intent totally. Especially given your car records your speed of travel and location. Your phone and your Alexa can record your conversations . Your keystrokes are potentially available. Big supporter of privacy given a somewhat libertarian slant to my thinking. Europeans and Brits seem to do a somewhat better job on this than us. With less chest thumping and more structural limitations to the invasion of privacy. I after some considerable effort got rid of Facebook for just this reason. It was a struggle and inconvenient as as it widely used by cruisers for get togethers and social functions. Searches are on DuckDuckGo through a vpn. Emails are masked except to family. Totally agree with you privacy is important.

Thanks PS for the straight poop. Unfortunately all too often there’s a difference between the law and justice. BTW we do have a ball. Used it religiously when out of the country. Now use it less frequently but will if I think it’s a situation more prone to litigious behavior. That’s another place I think we could use improvement. Again a place where justice and the law diverge on occasion.

 

[psneeld]

Law and justice.

If referring to the OP, hard to think in either term as neither is clear in this case to judge on.

Whether they go hand in hand all the time, certainly not.

 

[Jeff F]

I collided with a steel buoy last summer on the upper Richelieu River while avoiding a collision with an oncoming 30+ ft MY at full plane. He was one of a steady stream of oncoming boats, and I had my hands full in a narrow channel. And I was rattled. I honestly thought he was going to hit me. Didn't even get the boat name. Any damage was going to be on me or my insurer. Fortunately I didn't find any damage when I stopped for the day. One of the benefits of cruising in a work boat [emoji23]

I dunno. Sometimes these things happen. I've gone the scenario in my mind, and there's nothing I'd do differently in a replay. Sorry for your misfortune.

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