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RossWilson 05-17-2019 09:59 AM

Concerns From Survey and Sea Trial of 2006 MS34T
 
Hello Everybody:


After my surveyor spent about 90 minutes on the final in-water phase of the survey inspection, we spent an hour or so on the sea trial yesterday aboard the 2006 Mainship 34T with twin 900+ hour Yanmar 240 diesels. (See photo of red-hulled vessel)




It went fairly well, and she moved much faster than I expected at WOT. I learned that the current owners, who accompanied us, were relative novices, and rarely operated at 80% of max RPM as Ive been told is advisable. And to save fuel, which sentiment I truly appreciate, they almost never ran it full out as also recommended occasionally to help reduce carbon buildup. She (the boat - not the owner) did smoke a little, a light grey/white exhaust, when cold started.




However, whilst standing in the cockpit underway, though I couldn't see any smoke, the smell of exhaust was quite strong. The survey, standing beside me, explained that it was the result of the slip-stream that caused the exhaust to be forced back toward the boat. Opinion?




Aside from slowly dripping "dripless" stuffing boxes and what appears to be a leaking seal on the port rudder post, and aside from what appears to be hull paint losing its adhesion, and the failure of the bridge canvas enclosure fitting properly after having been cleaned over the winter, everything looks great. Obviously, the paint and canvas issues are my primary concern. The other issues are easily rectified.




Upon my arrival in the morning,with the boat stern into a covered slip, I failed to notice several white splotches, each about 3-5" in diameter on the port hull just aft of the bow. I noticed them upon our return from the trial. I guess since the owner brought her in bow first, I could easily see the disturbing white marks. But when I did spot them, they'd already left me with the diesel mechanic and broker. So, I wasn't able to inquire about them at the time. When I later raised the issue with the broker, she said nothing, which in itself, I found disturbing.




I had been informed that the marina had, at the seller's request, power buffed and waxed the hull while in heated storage during the winter. During my initial careful inspection, the hull looked great. Later, during my research into Awlgrip paint, I learned that it was a mistake to power buff and wax this paint, that it might have shortened the life of the paint. Could this be the result? Paint falling off the hull after a rigorous sea trial? Maybe the twisting and mild ride was all it took to shake the damaged paint loose? I'll have to get an estimate on re-painting the hull. Any guesses?




While in the covered slip, the surveyor thought the canvas looked fine, except for the fact that many dome fasteners could not be secured. The canvas shrunk from being cleaned and was hanging quite loose in several areas. The broker assured me that with warmer weather, it'll stretch out again and will be fine. Because it was darker in the slip, the surveyor said he didn't notice until we were in the light of day that several seams were already opening. He said the top would definitely leak in the rain, particularly after it was stretched, and that a new enclosure will likely cost over $8000 Cdn.




I've agreed conditionally to pay what I feel was top dollar for an otherwise very clean fresh water vessel that's been well maintained and stored indoors every winter since new. (I had been told there was a competing bid. Not sure there actually was one, but took the broker at her word.) Comments? Opinions? I apologize for the long post, but it's important to me for obvious reasons. Any guidance would be much appreciated.

Bacchus 05-17-2019 10:32 AM

Ross
My Bacchus website has some info an MS hull paint in the Links section.

I did some hull / gelcoat repair and spot painted the area with very good results.
While buffing / wax is not recommended I don't think is results in any instant failure but that's just my opinion. Especially the wax portion - it results in build-up and yellowing over time but nothing catastrophic.
I buffed & waxed mine first season after acquiring it and nothing terrible happened - after learning more I have switched to the Awlcare polymer and like it a lot - easy on/off. The admiral and I do it by hand and it not a bad job.
IMO Awlcraft is not hard to spot patch but it has to be sprayed. I was lucky and had a friends w/ spray equipment & knowledge do mine and I helped him prep & paint a boot stripe on his at the same time. He added several coats of clear top coat after his prime & color. I don't think MS did that but it seems like a good option. Awlcraft can be buffed if necessary but it's not recommended on a regular basis.
I have used the PreVal aerosol sprayer for the Awlgrip/Awlcraft priming spots and it doesn't do a bad job - haven't tried it for topcoat but might when it comes time to do more touch-up small areas.
I was very pleased w/ color match on Awlcraft - I was fortunate as I had paperwork that defined the exact color as Awlgrip/Awlcraft has about a dozen different Blues - Red should be easier.

All in all it sounds like boat is in nice shape and well cared for.
We do like our MS 34HT and felt lucky to find a fresh water one that PO had in a covered slip as well.
Where in Georgian Bay is it currently? (we are getting ready to head that way in a few weeks if NY canals open by then)
Would you leave it on Georgian Bay or bring it closer to home?

Gordon J 05-17-2019 10:40 AM

Diesel smell story sounds right as does white smoke at start and later none. Canvas price does not sound out of line.

Reference awlgrip. NO Buffing. Buffing significantly reduces the life of the paint. Paint will not shake off if it is properly applied. Paint jobs can be expensive. Best to have a professional look to see.

I just painted my boat with awlgrip and expect the paint to last 10 to 15 years, depending on how much time we spend in the Bahamas in the winter.

GMS 05-17-2019 10:42 AM

The purchase process for larger boats includes an opportunity for a survey to uncover issues not obvious to the casual observer, and affords an opportunity to negotiate the final price based on results (otherwise what would be point be in conducting a survey).

Accordingly, assuming you remain interested in following through with the purchase, determine reasonable costs to resolve the issues you feel were not accounted for in your original offer and propose a price adjustment based on the survey.

Personally, I would put no weight on discussion of alleged competing offers, especially now that you have entered into a purchase agreement. Even if there were competing offers, those potential purchasers have either moved on or will be more cautious if your deal falls through.

All of the items you identified are likely to be issues any buyer would be concerned about...

Gordon J 05-17-2019 10:43 AM

Be careful
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bacchus (Post 766286)
Ross
My Bacchus website has some info an MS hull paint in the Links section.

I did some hull / gelcoat repair and spot painted the area with very good results.
While buffing / wax is not recommended I don't think is results in any instant failure but that's just my opinion. Especially the wax portion - it results in build-up and yellowing over time but nothing catastrophic.
I buffed & waxed mine first season after acquiring it and nothing terrible happened - after learning more I have switched to the Awlcare polymer and like it a lot - easy on/off. The admiral and I do it by hand and it not a bad job.
IMO Awlcraft is not hard to spot patch but it has to be sprayed. I was lucky and had a friends w/ spray equipment & knowledge do mine and I helped him prep & paint a boot stripe on his at the same time. He added several coats of clear top coat after his prime & color. I don't think MS did that but it seems like a good option. Awlcraft can be buffed if necessary but it's not recommended on a regular basis.
I have used the PreVal aerosol sprayer for the Awlgrip/Awlcraft priming spots and it doesn't do a bad job - haven't tried it for topcoat but might when it comes time to do more touch-up small areas.
I was very pleased w/ color match on Awlcraft - I was fortunate as I had paperwork that defined the exact color as Awlgrip/Awlcraft has about a dozen different Blues - Red should be easier.

All in all it sounds like boat is in nice shape and well cared for.
We do like our MS 34HT and felt lucky to find a fresh water one that PO had in a covered slip as well.
Where in Georgian Bay is it currently? (we are getting ready to head that way in a few weeks if NY canals open by then)
Would you leave it on Georgian Bay or bring it closer to home?

According to the manufacturer, awlgrip life can be seriously shortened by buffing. If the paint is awlcraft, I am not so sure.

Gordon

ronlord 05-17-2019 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RossWilson (Post 766278)
Hello Everybody

It went fairly well, and she moved much faster than I expected at WOT. I learned that the current owners, who accompanied us, were relative novices, and rarely operated at 80% of max RPM as Ive been told is advisable. And to save fuel, which sentiment I truly appreciate, they almost never ran it full out as also recommended occasionally to help reduce carbon buildup.

Running at less than 80% of max RPM's is the norm for most of us Mainship owners, single or twins. I've never heard of a Mainship owner having problems with their diesels from running too slow.

Bacchus 05-17-2019 10:48 AM

Ross
Just a few additional comments re: canvas... I have done my own and other canvas jobs as a hobby business.
Sunbrella shouldn't shrink unless it is heated more than it should be. If removed & cleaned it does have a tendency to be tight going back on until it stretches out again. If there are any seams weak or separated I'd recommend restitching before doing any stretching. and don't just do the obvious seams - if some are failing others will be close behind. If you are a DIYer at all having your own sewing machine and learning to do canvas work can pay dividends.
The Sailrite machines are pretty common for individual DIYers and do a pretty decent job - once in awhile you find a used one on the market (I was lucky).
I certainly wouldn't recommend starting with a making a new full bridge enclosure to learn but restitching / repairing panels etc is a great way to start.
There are a few "threads" (pun intended) on DIY canvas work and my Bacchus website has an Intro to DIY Canvas that I put together for our local ABC-FLX boating group.

RossWilson 05-17-2019 10:54 AM

Thanks, Don. That's encouraging. I hadn't thought of patching. And you're probably right that the red would be easier to match. How many reds could there be?


However, if the paint is indeed beginning to fall off, might this just be the beginning of paint adhesion failure of the entire hull? I worry about how many power buffs this hull has undergone in her life.


She's currently moored in a covered slip in Victoria Harbour, southern Georgian Bay, where she'll remain at least for awhile. We plan to travel a fair amount this season around the bay, and possibly down the Trent-Severn and Rideau. Of course, we're experiencing high water levels here too, so am unsure what to plan for travel. We're also unsure whether we'll bring her to Oakville Harbour, or keep her up north. My wife hates the long drive to get there. My solution is to make the drive once and live aboard for the summer. :-)

Montenido 05-17-2019 10:57 AM

As Bachus said, repair the canvas seams before stretching. A good trick is to soak the canvas with water before installing. It allows more stretch initially, and will tighten up as it dries.

Cheers, Bill

RossWilson 05-17-2019 10:59 AM

Thanks Gordon. That's been my feeling too. It's so easy for a marine to just use the machine without checking the manufacture's website for recommendations. Good advice.

RossWilson 05-17-2019 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GMS (Post 766290)
The purchase process for larger boats includes an opportunity for a survey to uncover issues not obvious to the casual observer, and affords an opportunity to negotiate the final price based on results (otherwise what would be point be in conducting a survey).

Accordingly, assuming you remain interested in following through with the purchase, determine reasonable costs to resolve the issues you feel were not accounted for in your original offer and propose a price adjustment based on the survey.

Personally, I would put no weight on discussion of alleged competing offers, especially now that you have entered into a purchase agreement. Even if there were competing offers, those potential purchasers have either moved on or will be more cautious if your deal falls through.

All of the items you identified are likely to be issues any buyer would be concerned about...

Thanks GMS. Since I want to own this vessel, I definitely will return to the negotiating table after obtaining a rough idea of the cost of repairs and replacements. I just want to be reasonable in this regard, without being duped.

RossWilson 05-17-2019 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordon J (Post 766291)
According to the manufacturer, awlgrip life can be seriously shortened by buffing. If the paint is awlcraft, I am not so sure.

Gordon

I'm unsure whether its Awlgrip or Awlcraft. Consensus opinion seems to indicate the latter. Nevertheless, I'd still not power buff.

Comodave 05-17-2019 11:06 AM

As far as the exhaust smell, the configuration of the boat will cause the station wagon effect and suck the exhaust up into the cockpit, this is unwanted but normal due to the sedan style. You may reduce the smell by opening a forward facing hatch to break the suction. You may have to experiment a bit with different hatches or windows open. Diesels typically donít produce much CO like a gasser would but the smell can be annoying.

RossWilson 05-17-2019 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronlord (Post 766292)
Running at less than 80% of max RPM's is the norm for most of us Mainship owners, single or twins. I've never heard of a Mainship owner having problems with their diesels from running too slow.

Maybe the only adverse effect of running slow is carbon build-up? And maybe that can be rectified by an occasional brief WOT run?

RossWilson 05-17-2019 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bacchus (Post 766286)
Ross
My Bacchus website has some info an MS hull paint in the Links section.

I did some hull / gelcoat repair and spot painted the area with very good results.
While buffing / wax is not recommended I don't think is results in any instant failure but that's just my opinion. Especially the wax portion - it results in build-up and yellowing over time but nothing catastrophic.
I buffed & waxed mine first season after acquiring it and nothing terrible happened - after learning more I have switched to the Awlcare polymer and like it a lot - easy on/off. The admiral and I do it by hand and it not a bad job.
IMO Awlcraft is not hard to spot patch but it has to be sprayed. I was lucky and had a friends w/ spray equipment & knowledge do mine and I helped him prep & paint a boot stripe on his at the same time. He added several coats of clear top coat after his prime & color. I don't think MS did that but it seems like a good option. Awlcraft can be buffed if necessary but it's not recommended on a regular basis.
I have used the PreVal aerosol sprayer for the Awlgrip/Awlcraft priming spots and it doesn't do a bad job - haven't tried it for topcoat but might when it comes time to do more touch-up small areas.
I was very pleased w/ color match on Awlcraft - I was fortunate as I had paperwork that defined the exact color as Awlgrip/Awlcraft has about a dozen different Blues - Red should be easier.

All in all it sounds like boat is in nice shape and well cared for.
We do like our MS 34HT and felt lucky to find a fresh water one that PO had in a covered slip as well.
Where in Georgian Bay is it currently? (we are getting ready to head that way in a few weeks if NY canals open by then)
Would you leave it on Georgian Bay or bring it closer to home?

BTW - I've visited your website a couple of time. Very helpful, Don.

Bacchus 05-17-2019 11:10 AM

Ross
If you can find an experienced boat painter in the area it would be worth having them look and offer an opinion. Probably only way to know for sure. It certainly can be a negotiating point - not following mfg recommendation and obvious issues...
Good luck w/ the deal and advebtures

RossWilson 05-17-2019 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bacchus (Post 766293)
Ross
Just a few additional comments re: canvas... I have done my own and other canvas jobs as a hobby business.
Sunbrella shouldn't shrink unless it is heated more than it should be. If removed & cleaned it does have a tendency to be tight going back on until it stretches out again. If there are any seams weak or separated I'd recommend restitching before doing any stretching. and don't just do the obvious seams - if some are failing others will be close behind. If you are a DIYer at all having your own sewing machine and learning to do canvas work can pay dividends.
The Sailrite machines are pretty common for individual DIYers and do a pretty decent job - once in awhile you find a used one on the market (I was lucky).
I certainly wouldn't recommend starting with a making a new full bridge enclosure to learn but restitching / repairing panels etc is a great way to start.
There are a few "threads" (pun intended) on DIY canvas work and my Bacchus website has an Intro to DIY Canvas that I put together for our local ABC-FLX boating group.

Thanks again, Don. I'll see how negotiations go and what develops. I'm not exactly a seamstress, but your advice is certainly sound.

RossWilson 05-17-2019 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montenido (Post 766296)
As Bachus said, repair the canvas seams before stretching. A good trick is to soak the canvas with water before installing. It allows more stretch initially, and will tighten up as it dries.

Cheers, Bill

Thanks, Bill. Will keep this in mind. A looming expesce of entire enclosure replacement is drifting into the fog. :-)

RossWilson 05-17-2019 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comodave (Post 766302)
As far as the exhaust smell, the configuration of the boat will cause the station wagon effect and suck the exhaust up into the cockpit, this is unwanted but normal due to the sedan style. You may reduce the smell by opening a forward facing hatch to break the suction. You may have to experiment a bit with different hatches or windows open. Diesels typically donít produce much CO like a gasser would but the smell can be annoying.

That's a good idea. I could open the centre window of the windshield, or possibly crack the forward hatch a tad. Good advice.

RossWilson 05-17-2019 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bacchus (Post 766306)
Ross
If you can find an experienced boat painter in the area it would be worth having them look and offer an opinion. Probably only way to know for sure. It certainly can be a negotiating point - not following mfg recommendation and obvious issues...
Good luck w/ the deal and advebtures

Thanks again, Don. Will do.

Heron 05-17-2019 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RossWilson (Post 766301)
I'm unsure whether its Awlgrip or Awlcraft. Consensus opinion seems to indicate the latter. Nevertheless, I'd still not power buff.

Awlcraft is easily repaired and is buffable. Awlgrip, not so much. Do a search on Awlgrip Vs Awlcraft and you'll see the differences and recommendations. Different chemistry. I put Awlcraft on My boat and have been very pleased..Seems as tough as the Awlgrip I had on my last boat..

sean9c 05-17-2019 11:52 AM

If you think the paint has adhesion issues, it's flaking off, and if you care and if you want to remedy it correctly the only way is to remove the existing paint and repaint. Putting new paint over old paint that is flaking off is a waste of money. To remove the old paint and repaint the hull is quite a bit of labor, I'd think it'd be easily $30k by the time you include haulout and laydays.

RossWilson 05-17-2019 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heron (Post 766319)
Awlcraft is easily repaired and is buffable. Awlgrip, not so much. Do a search on Awlgrip Vs Awlcraft and you'll see the differences and recommendations. Different chemistry. I put Awlcraft on My boat and have been very pleased..Seems as tough as the Awlgrip I had on my last boat..

Thanks, Steve. I've done the research and understand the difference between Awlgrip and Awlcraft 2000. I agree that it would be an expensive undertaking. I'll take a closer look at the hull, hopefully with a qualified painter and/or surveyor.

RossWilson 05-17-2019 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean9c (Post 766332)
If you think the paint has adhesion issues, it's flaking off, and if you care and if you want to remedy it correctly the only way is to remove the existing paint and repaint. Putting new paint over old paint that is flaking off is a waste of money. To remove the old paint and repaint the hull is quite a bit of labor, I'd think it'd be easily $30k by the time you include haulout and laydays.

Thanks Sean. Good advice. But $30 grand! in USD? That's over $40k Cdn!! If that's the case, it could be a deal killer.

Comodave 05-17-2019 01:26 PM

If you have the canvas restitched only use Tenara thread. It will last the life of the canvas where poly thread will last 3 to 4 years before it dies. The incremental cost of Tenara should not be more than $120 for an entire spool of Tenara thread. The labor vastly outweighs the extra cost of the thread.

sean9c 05-17-2019 02:01 PM

Talk to your local boatyard that does painting. Explain to them that the existing paint is flaking and what it'd cost to remove the existing paint and repaint. The problem with flaking paint is that you don't know where it stops. It could be a small section with bad adhesion or the whole boat. Because you can't tell and painting is so expensive that it doesn't make sense to take a chance of not making sure that the prep was done correctly.
If it's important to you that the paint is not flaking and unless this boat is a smoking deal I'd keep looking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RossWilson (Post 766335)
Thanks Sean. Good advice. But $30 grand! in USD? That's over $40k Cdn!! If that's the case, it could be a deal killer.


RT Firefly 05-17-2019 02:53 PM

Greetings,
Mr. RW. For the $$ you anticipate spending, the paint and canvas should be top notch IMO. You may be hard pressed to find a qualified person(s) to advise you on these items in Kingston. I have dealt with Quinte Canvas in the past and would NOT recommend their work. Over priced and shoddy IMO.



Another potential problem, if one can call it so, is the space in the ER with 2 engines. I looked up other MS 34's and even with one engine, there does not seem to be much room. Your call on that one.


I can tell from the tone of your posts that you are excited about this boat and she DOES show well (I looked her up) but this is NOT the time to be emotional IN ANY WAY! I advise TOTAL pragmatism. Tough to say but there ARE other boats out there. Both eyes open and patience, my friend.

Shrew 05-17-2019 02:55 PM

The exhaust you're seeing doesn't sound out of line. Particularly for what is probably the first run of the season. The fact that is starting 'campering' in can occur with wind at your stern.

The paint sounds like an adhesion issue, which is the result of improper prep and application. Buffing the top won't impact it's adhesion to the hull.

White splotches could be repairs (it's a used boat, bumps happen). It could be where someone has used a cutting agent and buffed through the paint. (hard to tell without seeing it).

Canvas and isinglass require replacing every now and then. Maybe sunbrella doesn't shrink, but it sure seems like Isinglass does. Isinglass does tend to stretch a bit more in the heat. They are always tough to fit in the spring, particular in cool weather.

There isn't anything on this list that would have me concerned at all. I almost assume going into a used boat that I'm going to need to do some heavy compounding and buffing, replace canvas and isinglass, electronics, anchor and rhode, and scrutinize all pumps and hoses with anticipation of replacement.

RossWilson 05-17-2019 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comodave (Post 766355)
If you have the canvas restitched only use Tenara thread. It will last the life of the canvas where poly thread will last 3 to 4 years before it dies. The incremental cost of Tenara should not be more than $120 for an entire spool of Tenara thread. The labor vastly outweighs the extra cost of the thread.

Thanks, Commodave. I'll remember the word Tenara. Good advice.

RossWilson 05-17-2019 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean9c (Post 766368)
Talk to your local boatyard that does painting. Explain to them that the existing paint is flaking and what it'd cost to remove the existing paint and repaint. The problem with flaking paint is that you don't know where it stops. It could be a small section with bad adhesion or the whole boat. Because you can't tell and painting is so expensive that it doesn't make sense to take a chance of not making sure that the prep was done correctly.
If it's important to you that the paint is not flaking and unless this boat is a smoking deal I'd keep looking.

That's the challenge, Sean. These MS trawlers are extremely rare in Ontario. I'd been looking for one for several months, finally found this one when it was listed in January, negotiated a purchase subject to satisfactory survey, and continued watching for new listings here. Nothing showed up since. That's why they command higher than expected prices, and why buyers must be prepared to pay. I just prefer to avoid being taken to the bank. My philosophy is that if both parties are not completely happy, then it's a fair deal.

RossWilson 05-17-2019 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RT Firefly (Post 766388)
Greetings,
Mr. RW. For the $$ you anticipate spending, the paint and canvas should be top notch IMO. You may be hard pressed to find a qualified person(s) to advise you on these items in Kingston. I have dealt with Quinte Canvas in the past and would NOT recommend their work. Over priced and shoddy IMO.



Another potential problem, if one can call it so, is the space in the ER with 2 engines. I looked up other MS 34's and even with one engine, there does not seem to be much room. Your call on that one.


I can tell from the tone of your posts that you are excited about this boat and she DOES show well (I looked her up) but this is NOT the time to be emotional IN ANY WAY! I advise TOTAL pragmatism. Tough to say but there ARE other boats out there. Both eyes open and patience, my friend.

Thanks RTF. In as much as I agree with everything you say, these fresh-water MS trawlers are quite rare here in Ontario and even Quebec. Aside from the subject, not one has been listed this year. And to buy a salt-water vessel in the USA with Cdn dollars doesn't make sense to me.


The ER is indeed crowded, made ore so with the recent installation of 2 very large Rolls Surrette batteries between the engines. Nevertheless, one can still move around everything, including to each side of each engine. The mechanic who has done almost all of the maintenance and upgrade work told me he'd have preferred to work there without the big batteries, but says he manages fine.


And you're absolutely correct that I must set emotions aside. I've actually advised former clients that for the best deal, you must be prepared to walk away from the negotiating table. But ...

RossWilson 05-17-2019 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shrew (Post 766389)
The exhaust you're seeing doesn't sound out of line. Particularly for what is probably the first run of the season. The fact that is starting 'campering' in can occur with wind at your stern.

The paint sounds like an adhesion issue, which is the result of improper prep and application. Buffing the top won't impact it's adhesion to the hull.

White splotches could be repairs (it's a used boat, bumps happen). It could be where someone has used a cutting agent and buffed through the paint. (hard to tell without seeing it).

Canvas and isinglass require replacing every now and then. Maybe sunbrella doesn't shrink, but it sure seems like Isinglass does. Isinglass does tend to stretch a bit more in the heat. They are always tough to fit in the spring, particular in cool weather.

There isn't anything on this list that would have me concerned at all. I almost assume going into a used boat that I'm going to need to do some heavy compounding and buffing, replace canvas and isinglass, electronics, anchor and rhode, and scrutinize all pumps and hoses with anticipation of replacement.

Thanks, Shrew, for your comments. When I inspected this vessel in January when she was in heated storage, the hull had just been power buffed and waxed. And it looked wonderful with virtually no signs of damage or flaking. But when we returned to port after the sea trial yesterday, I noticed on the hull just aft of the bow what appeared to be 4-5 spots of white gelcoat showing where the paint had somehow been shed. That's the mystery for now. I don't mind small repairs and replacements, but the rather large expenditures associated with paint and canvas would be disturbing. Since it's rare to find one in Ontario, and because it's otherwise in top condition, I still prefer to buy this boat, but not at the price previously agreed.

Comodave 05-17-2019 04:34 PM

Get a knowledgeable painter and have them take a look at it and give an opinion. We just painted our whole boat last spring and it is a lot of work.

BruceK 05-17-2019 07:12 PM

Did the mechanical surveyor have any concerns about the insertion point for raw water injection into the exhaust? If not sufficiently away from the turbos, ie on the outbound side of the exhaust, there is a risk of standing salt water in the turbos. I rejected a boat with those engines,partly on that basis,on advice given on TF.

RossWilson 05-17-2019 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comodave (Post 766426)
Get a knowledgeable painter and have them take a look at it and give an opinion. We just painted our whole boat last spring and it is a lot of work.

Thanks, Commodave. Good advice. No doubt that your boat looks great in her new coat.

RossWilson 05-17-2019 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruceK (Post 766464)
Did the mechanical surveyor have any concerns about the insertion point for raw water injection into the exhaust? If not sufficiently away from the turbos, ie on the outbound side of the exhaust, there is a risk of standing salt water in the turbos. I rejected a boat with those engines,partly on that basis,on advice given on TF.

Thanks Bruce. No - he had no concerns. And this vessel will not see salt water during my tenure anyway.

RossWilson 05-19-2019 11:18 AM

Since I'm returning to the negotiation table to discuss deficiencies, including the canvas and hull paint, and how they should relate to the ultimate sale price, and since the stuffing boxes need replacement along with the seals on the rudder shafts, do any of you know what it would cost to have these professionally replaced? One of each is actively leaking. And no doubt, when one starts, the other is sure to follow.



Fortunately, the leaks are slow, so I'll not have to haul the boat this spring and lose part of the season. They can await the fall haul.



And since the seller has agreed that all equipment will be in good operating order upon completion, I prefer to have these costs reflected in the purchase price.



Because the marina is extremely busy right now, they're unable to provide an estimate before my condition expires. So, any rough ideas would be helpful. Thanks again.

Comodave 05-19-2019 12:43 PM

To replace the bridge enclosure would be 6 to 8 thousand dollars here in Michigan. To do the restitching if the materials are in good condition probably 1 to 1.5 thousand.

The stuffing boxes are another deal entirely. Depending on what needs replacing it could vary a lot. I replaced the traditional stuffing boxes on a previous boat. One took about 3 hours and the other took over 15 hours due to the coupler being machined wrong. If they just need repacking then a couple of hours, donít remember if they were dripless or not.

The hull paint could be 1 to 30 thousand depending on what has to be done. I did all the fiberglass work on mine, PO was a charter member of the coalition of the docking impaired, and hired a painter to spray the hull. Labor cost me $980 but he said if he had done all the prep work it would have been over $25K.

Good luck.

RossWilson 05-19-2019 02:04 PM

The stuffing boxes are the dripless type. I've heard they're much more expensive than the regular variety. The broker just informed me that we'll have the marina's quote of the replacement of the boxes and rudder post seals on Tuesday. Hallelujah!


She also reported that the white splotches on the hull washed off with plain water. And she has no idea what it was. The photo of the area in the surveyor's report that was taken that same morning before the sea trial showed no such white defects. I'm heading up there on Tuesday to take another look.


The broker also said the canvas guy who did the cleaning and water-proofing last winter was able to stretch the canvas back into place except for a few fasteners. He said those will be re-fastened with warmer weather. And she said no seams were split. We'll see on Tuesday.


Thanks again for your comments.

Comodave 05-19-2019 02:42 PM

Glad to hear you are making progress. Good luck with the boat.

BandB 05-19-2019 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RT Firefly (Post 766388)


I can tell from the tone of your posts that you are excited about this boat and she DOES show well (I looked her up) but this is NOT the time to be emotional IN ANY WAY! I advise TOTAL pragmatism. Tough to say but there ARE other boats out there. Both eyes open and patience, my friend.

Total Pragmatism? Then you don't advise owning boats? I do share your concern however over the possible falling in love with the boat and wearing blinders. Just need to figure out the possible costs and then decide.

BandB 05-19-2019 07:56 PM

Just clarification as you found that Awlgrip and Awlcraft are totally different products. Awlgrip should generally not be waxed or buffed, but sometimes that is called for if it's deteriorated. I strongly recommend for the most part using Awlgrips products on it, even though pricey. Awlcraft, on the other hand is similar to Alexseal, does require occasional waxing. Can be machine buffed but only with the right equipment and pads, which both manufacturers have 3M products they recommend.

sunchaser 05-19-2019 09:33 PM

Buffing of either Awl product by an overzealous hard pressure "wielder" can lead to heat buildup and lift the paint. The same buffing techniques and products used on FRP should be shunned.

Vashon_Trawler 05-20-2019 06:06 AM

A little puff of grey/whitish smoke at start up normal for many diesels. My diesel has 600 hours and I always see a tiny amount of smoke at start up. Before servicing my injectors, the smoke was more pronounced and I had a small sheen in the water.

Molly 05-22-2019 07:41 PM

My 2006 34T gets that smell every time. I figure it's the shape of the boat and the draft. I do try and take it up to WOT at least for 10 minutes every time I go out. I noticed less smoke now. Early in the season, I have to wax the transom after every trip. Now, it seems better. There are tons of Mainship 34T's out there. If you have doubts, keep looking.

Sangraal 05-24-2019 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RossWilson (Post 766301)
I'm unsure whether its Awlgrip or Awlcraft. Consensus opinion seems to indicate the latter. Nevertheless, I'd still not power buff.

If it is awlcraft then an area can be resprayed and cut in relatively easily. If it is awlgrip then patching is much more challenging. Either way it is not cheap. Hull with color (red) will be more difficult to match as sun fade will add another level of complexity. Good luck!

Bacchus 05-24-2019 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sangraal (Post 768295)
If it is awlcraft then an area can be resprayed and cut in relatively easily. If it is awlgrip then patching is much more challenging. Either way it is not cheap. Hull with color (red) will be more difficult to match as sun fade will add another level of complexity. Good luck!

My experience has been very good with color match and touch up. Paint is not like gelcoat in regards to chalk & fade... think modern auto finishes... they get scratched but don't fade like paint of old.

BandB 05-24-2019 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bacchus (Post 768340)
My experience has been very good with color match and touch up. Paint is not like gelcoat in regards to chalk & fade... think modern auto finishes... they get scratched but don't fade like paint of old.

But what paint has your experience been good with? Alexseal and Awlcraft are known to be fairly easy, but Awlgrip is not.

Bacchus 05-24-2019 04:15 PM

Yes Awlcraft and my understanding has been that's all Mainship used for late models. I won't claim any info for earlier ones.

Symphony 05-24-2019 11:44 PM

Complete prep and paint of 34í rum runner hull with Awlgrip was $8300 US last year.

Awlcraft not likely on a 2006 MS., but many with awlgrip. Great stuff and use awlwash and awlcare to get amazing results - better than wax and compound a gelcoat hull


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