Marine heads?

[Leeward III]

Time to rebuild or replace our Groco model k heads . Had vacuflush on previous boat and was always chasing leaks. Looking for low water consumption to extend time between pump outs? Any thoughts?

 

[HopCar]

Those Groco K’s are magnificent bronze toilets but if you’re looking to modernize look at the Raritan Marine Elegance series. Very reliable and quiet. Consider going with fresh water flush.

If you don’t want to go electric, stick with your K toilets.

 

[HeadMistress]

The Model K is indeed magnificent, but whether to rebuild or replace depends on its age (it's still in production with a list price of $1700 last time I checked) 'cuz Model Ks develop a major problem after about 20 years of use: They begin to recirculate black water when the piston bore wears beyond spec and the rings allow pressure to blow by. Furthermore the piston is double action pumping black water on the up stroke and raw water to the bowl on the down stroke. Groco told me that it would cost more than it's worth to have them make a new piston bore and advised replacing the toilet with a "contemporary" one. However--there were a couple of owners who've come up with creative DIY solutions this problem...I've saved them as documents that I can attach to an email if you or anyone else wants them. Just send me a PM that includes your email address (no way to attach anything to a PM).



--Peggie

 

[Leatherneck]

I really like my Marine Elegance toilets that came with Devil Dog. They have a regular flush that does three flushes and a Water Saver flush that does a single flush if you are keeping your holding tank levels down.

 

[Dwk]

Its been 5 years since we replaced our head with a quiet, multifunction Raritan Marine Elegance that's been trouble free. I bought a extra solenoid just in case that's still in the box. Someone dropped a bolt in our head so I got to explore which was a short visit due to the excellent access to the macerator/pump/blades. Bolt was retrieved within minutes!

 

[Ken E.]

The Raritan SeaEra model is also a very good product. I converted my raw water Raritan Crown heads to fresh water SeaEra's last winter....a huge improvement and no more bio-smell from organics in the lines.

 

[caltexflanc]

Just FYI, if you spent a bunch of time chasing down leaks on a VacuFlush system, it was installed wrong. We lived and cruised full time for years on a boat with three of them; the most reliable toilets land or sea we have ever owned. I was just thinking about that after futzing around with the nice Kohler toilet here at the house yet again.

One of our VFs, which also happened to be master stateroom head, had not been installed properly by a PO, and when I remediated that, it was flawless for the next 6 years of year around multi-times-a-day use.

 

[FF]

I would first get a copy of Peggys info.


If rebuilding them is do able the units will give another 20-30 years of great service.

 

[mvweebles]

Model Ks develop a major problem after about 20 years of use: They begin to recirculate black water when the piston bore wears beyond spec and the rings allow pressure to blow by. Furthermore the piston is double action pumping black water on the up stroke and raw water to the bowl on the down stroke.

I'm surprised at this - perhaps they pit vs wear? Bronze is a pretty hard alloy. I would think an aluminum piston in an engine would travel more in 5-minutes of running than a hand-pump Groco bronze piston would in 20-years of service.

The above said, I'm not a huge fan of old-school heads like these. The recirculating action is indeed prone to black water flushing; rebuild kits are relatively expensive, and they are a nuisance to rebuild. But I can't imagine the solid-bronze piston and body wearing out.

Peter

 

[Oldersalt]

Another vote for the SeaEra electric toilet. A little cheaper than the Elegance, I believe. Installed ours in 2016. Gets a fair bit of use but no problems except changing the joker valve, which is easy. Also went to fresh water, which was a BIG improvement! Absolutely no smells!
Oldersalt

 

[Comodave]

We have put Raritan Marine Elegance heads in 2 boats now and absolutely love them. Never even had to work on them. Water saver.

 

[Hippocampus]

Another +1 for the elegance. Had one for 7 years. Think electric actually has less maintenance than manual. Think it wise to put nothing in a head than a occasional olive oil and enzyme but never any chemicals. Practical Sailor rate the elegance as #1. If you do passages install with option to do fresh or salt unless you also have a watermaker. If you do salt ever run multiple flushes and clear holding tank. That way have only aerobic flora with less sulfur and less smell.

 

[HeadMistress]

I'm surprised at this - perhaps they pit vs wear? Bronze is a pretty hard alloy. I would think an aluminum piston in an engine would travel more in 5-minutes of running than a hand-pump Groco bronze piston would in 20-years of service.

a) it's not the piston that wears, it's the bore--the cylinder walls that the piston rubs against.
b) engine pistons and cylinders are protected from friction with oil...they don't have salt water running through them. The only thing oil protects in any manual toilet are the seals and gaskets.

It's only been a few decades that toilets like Groco Model K and the Wilcox-Crittenden Skipper have had rubber and nitrile seals and gaskets...originally they were leather. And that's where the practice of using veggie oil to lubricate a manual toilet began...leather soaks up oil, so it was only needed a couple of times a year. When "modern" manual toilets came along, none of which have any leather parts, it never occurred to owners and even some toilet mfrs that oil doesn't penetrate rubber, nitrile etc...they just continued pouring oil down the toilet--almost all of which just washes out with the first few flushes.

--Peggie