Generic Products, Batteries, filters, etc

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Dublin

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Mar 28, 2020
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A few years ago I needed to replace two batteries on a Grady White, both the starting and house. I did a deep dive on various battery sources. The starting battery for the Yamaha OB 200 was very specific as to specifications, cold Cranking amps, etc. What I discovered was that most name brand batteries are made by only a few few companies, in my case DEKA. I found out that DEKA makes batteries for West Marine, NAPA, O'Reiley's Auto, etc. all under their own label. I ended up buying buying the marine batteries from O'Reiley's Auto Part at almost 1/3 the price as West Marine, and convinced that there was no difference, and built on the same assembly line but with different labels.



Now I am looking a fuel and oil filters. I have a Yanmar 350 in a Mainship 34 and trying to determine if there there is a dimes worth of difference between a Yanmar filter at $35 or a NAPA, Baldwin, or some other filter, at $24, wondering if, like the batteries are filters from the same source with different labeling?


Looking forward to having this discussion/investigation.
 
Dublin said:
A few years ago I needed to replace two batteries on a Grady White, both the starting and house. I did a deep dive on various battery sources. The starting battery for the Yamaha OB 200 was very specific as to specifications, cold Cranking amps, etc. What I discovered was that most name brand batteries are made by only a few few companies, in my case DEKA. I found out that DEKA makes batteries for West Marine, NAPA, O'Reiley's Auto, etc. all under their own label. I ended up buying buying the marine batteries from O'Reiley's Auto Part at almost 1/3 the price as West Marine, and convinced that there was no difference, and built on the same assembly line but with different labels.



Now I am looking a fuel and oil filters. I have a Yanmar 350 in a Mainship 34 and trying to determine if there there is a dimes worth of difference between a Yanmar filter at $35 or a NAPA, Baldwin, or some other filter, at $24, wondering if, like the batteries are filters from the same source with different labeling?


Looking forward to having this discussion/investigation.
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You are half right. While DEKA might make batteries for all those labels, they don’t necessarily make all of them to the same specifications. That doesn't mean you can’t buy a battery from O’Rilley’s but it does mean you need to know more than just cold cranking amps.

With filters, most of them are made by Baldwin. You can save a lot of money buying Baldwin filters. Baldwin will usually cross reference you to several different Baldwin numbers. The cheapest one might fit your application but it might not be made will all the same features and to the same specifications. You need to know what your manufacturer is specifying and that your after market filter meets that specification.
 
Agree- I just ordered a few Baldwin filters. I suspect that they are identical to the Yanmar, with the important spec being 10 micron. Needless to say that Yanmar, while being a great manufacturer of marine engines, must buy their filters and oil from somebody. The question is who.
 
Dublin said:
A few years ago I needed to replace two batteries on a Grady White, both the starting and house. I did a deep dive on various battery sources. The starting battery for the Yamaha OB 200 was very specific as to specifications, cold Cranking amps, etc. What I discovered was that most name brand batteries are made by only a few few companies, in my case DEKA. I found out that DEKA makes batteries for West Marine, NAPA, O'Reiley's Auto, etc. all under their own label. I ended up buying buying the marine batteries from O'Reiley's Auto Part at almost 1/3 the price as West Marine, and convinced that there was no difference, and built on the same assembly line but with different labels.



Now I am looking a fuel and oil filters. I have a Yanmar 350 in a Mainship 34 and trying to determine if there there is a dimes worth of difference between a Yanmar filter at $35 or a NAPA, Baldwin, or some other filter, at $24, wondering if, like the batteries are filters from the same source with different labeling?


Looking forward to having this discussion/investigation.
Click to expand...

The truth is... You will never know who makes what for the OEM's. I wouldn't worry much about saving 11 bucks for a filter you only change twice a year at most. Batteries... I wouldn't buy generic batteries. You have to ask yourself why they are less expensive.
 
Sometimes the only difference between brands is the label and price, for other things there's more difference. Even then, with stuff like filters, being made by a different company doesn't necessarily mean it is or isn't good enough. Figuring out whether an alternative part is good enough can sometimes take some research.
 
Lots of manufacturers require bypass valves built into the filter. You could have two identical looking filters with different internal features causing a big price difference. While I agree micron’s is an important part of the equation, it’s not the only important part.

That said, I’m not discouraging you from buying a Baldwin filter, just do proper research.

I myself use Baldwin filters but I know that the internal specifications are equal to the manufacturer’s.
 
Baldwin makes great, top quality filters, but Wix does too and would be doing a larger part of the private label filters (such as NAPA, which are great). I used to use NAPA oil and secondary fuel filters on my Detroit's quite happily, then I made buddies with the local Detroit distributor's parts desk, got classified as a commercial account and could get the Detroit-branded filters for about the same price as the NAPAs. Ditto on the engine oil, by the way. I continued to use NAPA branded filters on the generator.
 
Seafarermarinesupply.com carries yanmar branded oil filters for my 6lya-ste engines for $14.48 each. I just reorder my Yanmar and northern lights service parts in bulk each year as I change the oil, anodes, coolant, belts, impellers, fuel filters and air filters to save on the shipping costs. Don’t know if generics are better or worse buts its pretty easy to find OEM branded service parts at good prices.
 
I bet we would be surprised at the number of products where the only difference is the label.

If Baldwin or Wix cross reference to a specific engine wouldn't it have to meet the specs for that engine ? I'd think there would be some liability if it didn't...
 
Solly said:
If Baldwin or Wix cross reference to a specific engine wouldn't it have to meet the specs for that engine ? I'd think there would be some liability if it didn't...
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Nope, all they have to do is fit the external dimensions. Few owners care about filter internals.

Where the liability comes in is for diesels under warranty and the owner chooses to use a non approved filter or lube oil. The Warranty can then be voided with the owner shouldering the liability.

But, on our low hour and seldom used recreational engines they will likely fail from something other than lubrication problems related to trying to save a few dollars on filters.
 
Baldwin cross references two different filters for the Cat 3208. A B75 at $15 and a B206 at $23. Both filters are the same size and both will screw on to a Cat 3208 but they are very different inside. Now which one do you think is correct for a Cat 3208 in a marine environment?
 
tiltrider1 said:
Baldwin cross references two different filters for the Cat 3208. A B75 at $15 and a B206 at $23. Both filters are the same size and both will screw on to a Cat 3208 but they are very different inside. Now which one do you think is correct for a Cat 3208 in a marine environment?
Click to expand...


Can you confirm the part number for the B206? I tried to look them up to see what's different, but I can't find anything for the B206, only the B75.
 
Genuine Cat filters for 3208s run in the $15 to 20 range before any volume buying discounts.
 
If you are going to buy NAPA filters, ask for the Pro-pack that comes sealed in plastic without a cardboard box. They want $6 to $9 more for the box!

I use NAPA oil in five gallon pails and their filters exclusively and am very satisfied. I have DD’s and they offer a low ash oil especially made for these engines. I use their 15w40 in my generators, outboard and motor scooter.
 
rslifkin said:
Can you confirm the part number for the B206? I tried to look them up to see what's different, but I can't find anything for the B206, only the B75.
Click to expand...

B75 is a 10 micron filter with a bypass valve built into it. B206 is a 23 micron filter with no bypass valve. B75 should cost more but due to volume production it costs less. B75 is also the only Baldwin filter that meets Cat’s specs.
 
I use Sams club golf cart batteries and Wix filters. Wix and NAPA are the same. The filters are great and the batteries are cost effective.
 
Woodland Hills said:
If you are going to buy NAPA filters, ask for the Pro-pack that comes sealed in plastic without a cardboard box. They want $6 to $9 more for the box!

I use NAPA oil in five gallon pails and their filters exclusively and am very satisfied. I have DD’s and they offer a low ash oil especially made for these engines. I use their 15w40 in my generators, outboard and motor scooter.
Click to expand...

I still remember the part number for the oil: 75118. It's repackaged Valvoline with great specs. The DD oil is rebranded Mobil, says so right on the label. I switched when my local DD shop started selling me the stuff for what the local NAPA charged. I am not sure who makes the various DD filters. I used the fullflow for the oil filters, as rec's by the shop manual. Nice thing about NAPA is they have shops in virtually every town when you are cruising, and you can call ahead and they will order in what you need if they don't have it and get it next day. Nice thing about old Hatts and most other DD boats, the Allison transmissions use the same oil as the engines.
 
If you have a SAE spec or similar for the filter/fluid/whatever you're replacing (if it exists), you should be good. I used to get the oil filters for my Yamaha O/B at the outdoor sports store (ATVs, dirt bikes, etc.) for much less than at a "marine" store, even for the same part number.

I have also found that sometimes the WM price for something is 2X the price for the identical item when bought somewhere else (even another marine store). The overhead costs for the fancy WM store and branding seems pretty high.
 
Brand Vs Brand

In the the 70’s I was running a big Crocker wooden ketch around the Caribbean and the annual top side paint from Petit was getting crazy expensive. I asked Petit for a complete product breakdown for their best topside paint and then retyped it on plain paper and sent it to Pittsburg Paint and several other paint manufactures and asked them if they had any paint matching my list. Turned out they had one with the exact same formula that they called an industrial oil base paint. It was $14.00 a gallon in St Thomas vs $68.00 for Petit topside paint. I converted.
 
GH41 said:
You have to ask yourself why they are less expensive.
Click to expand...

Or maybe you could ask why the others are more expensive?

Personally I think a lot of the extra money often goes to extra profit margin. Back in the day I had a Yamaha XS1100 bike (great bike & FAST for its time) that went thru batteries. Read an article that the entire world supply of that shape battery, no matter the brand, was made on one machine in one factory and everyone was having same trouble with those batteries. The factory insisted that there was nothing wrong with the machine but updated it any way. Every ones battery life improved dramatically.

So why were some people paying more for their batteries?

There are a lot of people out there trying to sell you less value for more money. Maybe 'you get what you pay' for should be 'you don't get more than you pay for but often less'?
 
Last edited:
sunchaser said:
Nope, all they have to do is fit the external dimensions. Few owners care about filter internals.

Where the liability comes in is for diesels under warranty and the owner chooses to use a non approved filter or lube oil. The Warranty can then be voided with the owner shouldering the liability.

But, on our low hour and seldom used recreational engines they will likely fail from something other than lubrication problems related to trying to save a few dollars on filters.
Click to expand...

Thanks to the Moss Magnuson Act, the warranty can only be voided if the manufacturer can prove the failure was caused by the non-OEM filter. Manufacturers cannot force customers to use their filters under threat of voiding the warranty (unless they provide the filters for free, per the MM Act).
Original Equipment vs. Aftermarket Oil and Fuel Filters | Steve D'Antonio Marine Consulting

Cutting open a filter will yield a wealth of info, I do this routinely, I have a filter "can opener". I'd use the Yanmar filter this time, then when changing cut it open, then do the same for a WIX, my bet is the WIX is as good or better.

Having said all that, in warranty, it's probably best to stick with OEM filters, to avoid having a dispute.

Donaldson, btw, also makes outstanding filters.

I'm not vetting or endorsing this video, but it is interesting for the comparison of the internal parts alone.
There are many similar videos on YouTube.
 
For fuel and oil filters, I always look first for a matching NAPA Gold filter. I don't have any special knowledge that they're great, but I've always used them and never had any reason to doubt that decision. And they're WAY less expensive than the comparable Isuzu / Northern Lights part number.
 
BrianSmith said:
For fuel and oil filters, I always look first for a matching NAPA Gold filter. I don't have any special knowledge that they're great, but I've always used them and never had any reason to doubt that decision. And they're WAY less expensive than the comparable Isuzu / Northern Lights part number.
Click to expand...

Agreed, NAPA Gold is a good filter, and that was my filter of choice, however, they are made by WIX so I simply migrated to WIX.
 
I had a Yanmar 315 diesel in my Mainship. This engine is a marinized Toyota Land Cruiser motor. I ordered my filters from the Yanmar dealer, and was surprised one time to receive a Toyota filter in a Yanmar box. My vote is if the filter is suitable for the engine, then it's suitable for the engine whether it's in a boat or a truck. It was the last Yanmar filter put on that engine, my local Toyota dealer was quite a bit cheaper.
 
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