Bow Damage during delivery

ranger58sb · Oct 31, 2022

Hippocampus said:
Can you comment on % of power that respond to an VHF hail? Have had recurring issues with big sportfish on plane in canals which are speed posted who don’t respond.
Would you appreciate more boats having transceivers?

Last question first: absolutely. I just don't see it happening quickly, and I dunno that I'd ever expect more than 20% participation (a WAG) even way down the line... and assuming it's not made mandatory. (As is apparently the case in some places like Thailand, Singapore, Maylasia...)

Can't remember clearly about powerboat response, probably because they answered (or hailed me first) often enough so I didn't get irritated about it. I do remember clearly a couple instances where I hailed a sportfish behind us -- probably in full delivery mode, with bow wave higher than our transom

-- in a skinny canal to discuss a plan, and in both instances that Cap'n proactively offered to slow down and pass close aboard.

Come to think about it, I maybe only semi-remember a couple instances of being waked enough to be surprised by it.

Hippocampus said:
In a sailboat there’s no issue looking behind you. Just turn your head. Find it’s different in power. We had two large rigid kayaks attached to the railing of the boat deck. Just got rid of them. Hopefully that will improve looking over at the aft quarters. Sail and trawlers are slow. I’m as interested in seeing what’s behind me as in front. Do make it a habit to get out of the comfy helm seat (best seat in the boat) and look around but I’m no saint. Already have had the experience of AIS and radar clueing me in it’s time to get up and look.

We've got really good visibility aft from our helm, but FWIW we do also use radar as a rear view mirror... a lot. More often our radar picture is about that, versus what's out in front or on sides. Not in place of Mark I* Eyeballs, but a good adjunct.

-Chris

mvweebles · Oct 31, 2022

Hippocampus said:
.. In a sailboat there’s no issue looking behind you. Just turn your head. Find it’s different in power. We had two large rigid kayaks attached to the railing of the boat deck. Just got rid of them. Hopefully that will improve looking over at the aft quarters. Sail and trawlers are slow. I’m as interested in seeing what’s behind me as in front. Do make it a habit to get out of the comfy helm seat (best seat in the boat) and look around but I’m no saint. Already have had the experience of AIS and radar clueing me in it’s time to get up and look. Then go back to figure out if there’s anything to pay further attention to. AIS is a big help for that. If you’re doing watch and watch so tired you may get lazy. Wife likes me napping on the starboard settee while she’s on watch. We’ve done several blocks of multiple day stretches so we’re both tired. We two have been continuing our rule about doing 360 look arounds periodically while on watch. Will say, at least for us, situational awareness is harder to achieve on our trawler than on sail. It’s the downside of being dry, warm and comfy with some degree of background noise. We have two excellent port lights on the aft of the pilot house but it isn’t just turning your head.

I pace a bit. Not really nervous, just get a bit fidgety. Most boats seem to have obstructed view afterwards, so it gives me an excuse to take a few steps to scan. Sort of like checking my mirrors when driving. Just part of the routine.

I don't have much experience using AIS - it existed when I was delivering, but was not mandatory yet and was pretty expensive so was fairly rare. MARPA was cool - tagging a vessel and watching CPA broke the monotony of an otherwise quiet watch.

Over the years, I've obbserved boats that you increase odds of a boat responding to VHF if the hailing voice is female. I guess it beats watching tagged RADAR targets.

Peter

psneeld · Oct 31, 2022

I love people who never made a living driving things for a living think they know what is safe or not for everyone else. Whether it be cars, planes or boats.

How in the world having a profession that doesn't let you concentrate on being a captain and doesn't put you on the water make you really know what can and can't be done?

Even pros with limited experience aren't that arrogant in my experience and try and see what is actually being done by some and see that there are circumstances that change concepts in wildly different ways.

Now I am not saying that pros don't make plenty of mistakes, but often they are the ones that everyone makes.

I had plenty of students that became excellent captains in a flash.... like many professions or hobbies, some catch on quickly and some never do with plenty in between.

But to say one style, set of "yacht policies", rules of thumb, what have you is right for everyone..... you are in a different world than I.

psneeld · Oct 31, 2022

mvweebles said:
I pace a bit. Not really nervous, just get a bit fidgety. Most boats seem to have obstructed view afterwards, so it gives me an excuse to take a few steps to scan. Sort of like checking my mirrors when driving. Just part of the routine.

I don't have much experience using AIS - it existed when I was delivering, but was not mandatory yet and was pretty expensive so was fairly rare. MARPA was cool - tagging a vessel and watching CPA broke the monotony of an otherwise quiet watch.

Over the years, I've obbserved boats that you increase odds of a boat responding to VHF if the hailing voice is female. I guess it beats watching tagged RADAR targets.

Peter

Then there are time you just can't get the other boat OFF the radio...often on CH 16 and just have to stop responding no matter what they are asking.

rslifkin · Oct 31, 2022

Hippocampus said:
Can you comment on % of power that respond to an VHF hail?

In our recent cruising grounds, I've found that the more a powerboat looks like they're really traveling, the more likely they are to answer a VHF hail. So boats with far away hailing ports, slow trawler types, etc. have a good chance of a response. But the local guy blasting along is a crap-shoot.

backinblue · Oct 31, 2022

rslifkin said:
In our recent cruising grounds, I've found that the more a powerboat looks like they're really traveling, the more likely they are to answer a VHF hail. So boats with far away hailing ports, slow trawler types, etc. have a good chance of a response. But the local guy blasting along is a crap-shoot.

I agree. Serious cruisers are most likely on 16, recreational boater, weekenders or day trippers, rarely in my experience. 20% might be generous.

SteveK · Oct 31, 2022

After giving it serious thought, I am guilty of forgetting to turn the radio on. When I do, I usually turn the volume down as it annoys the admiral.
When I do have it on 99% talk is not for me or of interest.
But I still observe the boats within sight looking for anyone in distress.

Hippocampus · Oct 31, 2022

P have been taught there’s always ten ways to do anything on a boat and nine are wrong. That usually includes the way you are doing it. I don’t see any of the posts in this entire thread by pros and not pros telling people what to do. I do see posts exploring how to do things better. Different opinions on what has been helpful and what not or unnecessary. I’ve learned some stuff from this thread. I hope others have as well.

Yup radar and AIS are are second set of eyes behind you. Occasionally set the boat in the lower third (look forward position) such as in tight situations. But rather have it in the middle of the screen so you’re aware of what’s behind you. Have repetitively asked crew to routinely change magnification as I think that helps you keep a big picture frame of mind. Also now a days with vector charts you get different stuff on the screen. Famous story of a super high tech boat crewed by pros doing a RTW race hitting a reef in the Indian Ocean. Post mortem suggests event happened because reef not seen on the chart at the magnification used.

SteveK · Oct 31, 2022

HIP, I just learned there are 10 ways to do something. All along I thought there were only two. My way or the highway. :whistling:

psneeld · Oct 31, 2022

Hippocampus said:
P have been taught there’s always ten ways to do anything on a boat and nine are wrong. That usually includes the way you are doing it. I don’t see any of the posts in this entire thread by pros and not pros telling people what to do. I do see posts exploring how to do things better. Different opinions on what has been helpful and what not or unnecessary. I’ve learned some stuff from this thread. I hope others have as well.

Yup radar and AIS are are second set of eyes behind you. Occasionally set the boat in the lower third (look forward position) such as in tight situations. But rather have it in the middle of the screen so you’re aware of what’s behind you. Have repetitively asked crew to routinely change magnification as I think that helps you keep a big picture frame of mind. Also now a days with vector charts you get different stuff on the screen. Famous story of a super high tech boat crewed by pros doing a RTW race hitting a reef in the Indian Ocean. Post mortem suggests event happened because reef not seen on the chart at the magnification used.

Not sure what the above in red really means.

A lot of boats in the commercial world are run by just a captain required to do eveything aboard... leaving the wheel, even the wheelhouse happens regularly in situations where it is safe.

In my world there are always more than just one way of doing things.

markpierce · Oct 31, 2022

I mostly trust my eyes. and frequently walk side-to-side in the pilothouse to get a 360-degree view. Radar is secondary.

catalinajack · Oct 31, 2022

Hippocampus said:
Put the curser on the vessel and press.
Get
Distance of closest approach
Time to that occurrence
Their relative speed and course
Their true SOG and course
Their name, destination, and principal dimensions.
Class of AIS

Then have NO need to call them on VHF. Divert or change speed as necessary to avoid. Recheck AIS parameters periodically to make sure distance of closest approach is increasing to a satisfactory amount.
It’s extremely rare I call any vessel on VHF for collision avoidance. Usually can just move out of the way. Figure the commercial guys have other things to deal with so don’t want to bother them. The recreational folks maybe a hassle to deal with and it isn’t a big deal to stay away. I did call once on our recent trip. A very large barge push tug combo was coming at us as we were near the exit of the C&D. Asked if we were in his way. He was very appreciative of our call and told us to do what we were doing just hung the greens. Conversation lowered his stress. Although we couldn’t see him at that point he then knew we were aware of him and due to his size would have issues navigating the turns while staying in the canal. He knew we were paying attention. 10 second conversion lowering stress. I’m not against using VHF but still think even those conversations are often greatly enhanced by having the AIS information before hand.
BTW he wasn’t yet on radar.

This is a common ocurrence on the inland rivers and waterways.

catalinajack · Oct 31, 2022

OldDan1943 said:
Let's face it, we might be driving in our minds while at the helm until, you hear the VHF calls out the name of your boat.

On my boat, no one drinks unless are tied to the dock for the evening. No one drinks when anchored unless we are anchored for the night.

Dont like those 2 rules, buy your own boat!!! End of story, no further discussion necessary.

Our rule also!

SteveK · Oct 31, 2022

We had a boat call us one day to say, hey your fenders are deployed. The admiral jumped up and said I forgot. You just can't get pretty and also good help these days.

catalinajack · Oct 31, 2022

And all of this discussion begs the question that was the source of this discussion. How in hell did this delivery captain manage to run into a buoy? A DeFever 44 turns very slowly and top speed is 7.5 knots. No way does a sudden turn put that boat into a buoy. If it was an open water buoy the guy shouldn't have been within 200 yards of any buoy. If it was in the entrance channel what was he doing on the PORT side of the channel close to the marker buoys? His story is unbelievable but, unfortunately for the boat owner, he has no ability to refute it and, in any case, is stuck with the results. I am acquainted with the owner. He strongly considered buying our DF44 but chose this one instead. A shame indeed after the excitement of a new boat acquisition, and costly.

Delta Riverat · Oct 31, 2022

Yeah, unbelievable. Drunk, asleep, auto pilot - who knows.

Maybe nobody knows. They were all sleeping on auto pilot.

But, that doesn't look good on the report eh? Might even lose your license.

OldDan1943 · Oct 31, 2022

Let's face it, if you dont monitor your own electronics, you cant expect to monitor their electronics.

Hippocampus · Nov 1, 2022

P you really need to lighten up. To me you are a major resource with much knowledge and experience but when I attempt to inject any humor it seems likely you will give me blowback. Of course out 400+ nm from a shoreline when radar and AIS show nothing for 16-20nm around me and it’s night with everyone asleep but me at the wheel when I need a pee break I don’t wake someone to take the helm. Hopefully common sense prevails.
Yes I understand there’s only one captain but just pointing out the failure to be able to learn a better way to do things from a my way or the highway attitude is an obstacle to becoming a better captain. Over the years I’ve had some great crew. Folks much more experienced than me. Folks with different skill sets than me. Folks with different training. I’ve learned from my crew even though my final word is law and I choose not them when to discuss a decision. The quote you put in red is just meant to suggest folks avoid such hubris that it prevents learning.

End of day in the OP someone screwed up. Us here don’t know who. The conversations have drifted as a reflection of that. Much of it centered on how different people run their boats. Overlying these comments is there are common sense exceptions. Although that hasn’t been explicitly stated think that’s assumed.

OldDan1943 · Nov 1, 2022

Hippocampus said:
eep but me at the wheel when I need a pee break I don’t wake someone to take the helm. Hopefully common sense prevails.
.

Go to the drug store, buy a hospital type 'pee jug.'
Drink water instead of coffee.
Stop by the galley and grab a pre-made sandwich.

Hippocampus · Nov 1, 2022

Actually need the hot tea with a slice of lemon to get through the 0 to 4. I’ll continue to be a gentleman and sit to pee. Same reason I don’t like composting heads on a ocean boat.. not going to walk through a boat carrying pee or poop thank you.
We do up single serving hot meals in vacuum packed bags. Leave the helm briefly to set up to heat. Set a timer on your wrist watch. Timer goes off go pick it up and bring it back to the helm to eat. Cool night, hot tea and hot food, look at the stars with no light pollution, boat with a bone in its teeth. Don’t get better than that.

Bow Damage during delivery

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