Starlink

Bowball,

Southern BC should ok but Alaska not until summer 2023 maybe. The current satellite constellation uses satellites in a 53 degree inclination to the equator meaning they only get up to 53N on the surface of the earth. That doesn’t get you to Ketchikan. Since Starlink primarily uses satellites that are north of the terminal location, the actual line of continuous service is south of 53N.

Tom

tpbrady said:

Bowball,

Southern BC should ok but Alaska not until summer 2023 maybe. The current satellite constellation uses satellites in a 53 degree inclination to the equator meaning they only get up to 53N on the surface of the earth. That doesn’t get you to Ketchikan. Since Starlink primarily uses satellites that are north of the terminal location, the actual line of continuous service is south of 53N.

Tom

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Thank you. I can wait for Alaska until then, but fingers crossed for more northern Vancouver island.

I wonder if I should keep it lose on the deck to experiment and move or if it would be acceptable to put in a dome.

NoRain said:

Any chance the antenna will mount inside an existing satellite TV dome? I’ve got a 24” RayMarine, which is essentially an Intellian, that is pretty much worthless now I’d think. I’d love to mount a StarLink dish inside it. Retains the aesthetics as well as some weather resistance.

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I am also hoping a dedicated marine system that will fit inside a dome will eventually be offered but I would guess we will have to wait awhile. However, the current dish set up people on here are describing sounds like it is working fairly well so far for a system that is not marine rated.

NoRain,

The rectangular antenna measures right at 22 3/4 inches diagonally, so as long as the inside diameter can accommodate that, it might work. You might find the performance is not as good as the radome will attenuate the signal. Depending on the operating frequency of the system inside attenuation will vary. Starlink is KU band for terminals ranging from 11-16 GHz.

Tom

Thx. I have no idea what current satellite TV frequencies are. I’ll look into it. Be nice to have it enclosed. I gather StarLink has its own servo motors, so a person could literally gut their satellite dome and put this in.

NoRain,

If it’s DISH then it’s Ku band. If it’s a later model DirecTV it could be Ku and Ka so you so be ok in that regard.

Tom

No adjustment necessary. The antenna will set itself up. I would not mount the antenna on a sail boat mast. There would be clearance, motion and obstruction issues.

I intend to mount mine off of the rails using a fishing pole holder, pole holder-extension pipe-antenna.

Bruce

bowball said:

Do you need to manually adjust the tilt or direction? Or can it be mounted on a mast? Boat deck?

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PennBruce said:

No adjustment necessary. The antenna will set itself up. I would not mount the antenna on a sail boat mast. There would be clearance, motion and obstruction issues.

I intend to mount mine off of the rails using a fishing pole holder, pole holder-extension pipe-antenna.

Bruce

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I didn’t mean a sail boat mast, but rather my radar mast on my trawler. I have one done up there and could put another if this fits. But if I want to play with it and adjust it then I should just leave it on the boat deck. I can’t use it at the marina as I have a boat shed, so it’s really on the hook performance I’m curious about.

The circles on the front of the router are the orbits of earth and mars. An Elon thing. I was also surprised that they didn't have a function.

Bruce

My impression is that lower is better on a vessel in motion. Also, you don't want it adjacent to anything that will obstruct the view to the horizon. Your vessel will be moving around its anchor and the antenna could occasionally be blocked by the mast. Also, the antenna needs to be far enough away from the mast to be able to move to track satellites. Of course, you could always anchor bow and stern when using Starlink.

On a terrestrial installation or at a marina this wouldn't be a problem. The antenna orients itself and pretty much doesn't move after that.

There will probably be sufficient marine installations documented in the near future that you will find one that will work for you.

Bruce

bowball said:

I didn’t mean a sail boat mast, but rather my radar mast on my trawler.

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I recently had a problem with my Starlink that may show how well it may work at sea.

After a power outage, my antenna went to the stowed position. Dish was vertical. Internet was acting slower than normal, but still fast enough to stream video. I went a couple days before I spotted the antenna. Motors weren't working but a Starlink reboot fixed it. Dish went back to it's normal position.

At my dock, the dish is usually at a 25° angle, but it was still receiving ok at nearly 90°. So apparently it has a wide communication window. Speed was about 30mbps ↓ and 5 mbps ↑ with the dish in the vertical position. Usual speed is 100+ and I've seen 300+ speeds.

Lepke,

The best I can tell, the Starband antenna uses satellites that are +/- 40 degrees of the flat face. At a 25 degree tilt to the north, it would go down to 25 degrees above the horizon and due south it would go down to 75 degrees above the horizon. E/W would be somewhere in between. Beyond those angles it would become inefficient which is why your speeds slowed way down when you were tracking a satellite that was east or west of your location or passing directly over head.

Your experience confirms the off axis limitations of flat panel antennas. It's this limitation that would require Starlink to use a gimballed antenna to maintain optimum pointing of a panel on a vessel underway. The alternative as some have proposed is multiple panels.

Tom

Excellent article on install

SIAP. This article discusses installation on a boat. Great read for those considering it. https://svrenaissance.com/musings-about-starlink/

Helmsman said:

SIAP. This article discusses installation on a boat. Great read for those considering it. https://svrenaissance.com/musings-about-starlink/

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Excellent article indeed! Thanks.

Seems to be working fine on many sailing vessels.
See no reason for it not to work on powered vessels


Limitations at the moment appear to be an offshore 12nm geofence or, limitation of the laser ground stations.

In Canada right now you can only get the round one, the 2nd gen. A bit bigger but it also doesn’t have the built in router which is a positive. More electricity usage.

bowball said:

In Canada right now you can only get the round one, the 2nd gen. A bit bigger but it also doesn’t have the built in router which is a positive. More electricity usage.

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I got the round dishy in Mexico and have measured about 50w average power consumption, so about 100 amp hours a day at 12v. We leave it on 24/7 at anchor and the power consumption is well worth it. One upside is you don't need to also buy the ethernet adapter if you're connecting it to another router.

retriever… How do you mount it? And is your home address for it Mexico or is roaming now enabled as I hear? Mine just arrived but still in a box. The round one.

bowball said:

retriever… How do you mount it? And is your home address for it Mexico or is roaming now enabled as I hear? Mine just arrived but still in a box. The round one.

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I haven't mounted it yet since we're about to leave the boat for the summer in Mexico. I'll leave it indoors while we're gone and will see what creative solutions people come up with. The dish is sensitive to obstructions so getting it higher than masts, davits, stanchions, etc. makes a difference.

I used the marina we're at in Mexico for my "service address" and a Seattle-area billing address. I've been on the waitlist in the USA for a year or two for a cabin in the San Juans and it wouldn't let me change that service address to one in Mexico. I had to make a new Starlink account with a different email to associate it with a different country, but that wasn't much hassle.

Diagnostics show that when we travel more than a few miles away from the marina we are roaming, but not outside the country where we obtained service, and performance hasn't been noticeably impacted.

Interesting. Do you stay connected if you are on the hook or just at the dock? What about the affects of the tide in the PNW?

My son has one in Missouri and he stated it was a 'game changer.'

Can you suspend service for the off season?

You might want to consult a lawyer if you decide to take your trawler to Mars, though. Their contract contains this language:

For Services provided to, on, or in orbit around the planet Earth or the Moon, these Terms and any disputes between us arising out of or related to this Agreement, including disputes regarding arbitrability ("Disputes") will be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of the State of California in the United States. For Services provided on Mars, or in transit to Mars via Starship or other colonization spacecraft, the parties recognize Mars as a free planet and that no Earth-based government has authority or sovereignty over Martian activities. Accordingly, Disputes will be settled through self-governing principles, established in good faith, at the time of Martian settlement.

I just read this:

https://seabits.com/starlink-finally-useful-aboard/

Encouraging...

Nancy and Rick said:

I just read this:

https://seabits.com/starlink-finally-useful-aboard/

Encouraging...

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Good article. Thanks for sharing. We are looking at Starlink for next year and see what they do on the marine side. more $$$ for sure.

Tom,

I wish I knew when they are going to start launching into the 70/97 degree inclinations as that would give us some indication when Alaska service would begin. Their plans show 720 satellites in the 70 degree inclination, so that means 14-16 launches of the Falcon 9. At the rate of 2-3 launches a month that would mean around 6 months to complete the shell with limited service starting some time before that. They still have 900 satellites to launch for the 53.2 degree shell, so that would be 17-18 launches or 7 months to complete that. I would say we are at least a year out from Alaska service. Starship could change that dynamic as it can hold upwards of 400 Starlink satellites.

For open ocean service, there are around 700 satellites in service almost all in the 53.2 degree shell with laser crosslinks. Depending on the distribution of those satellites and employment of those cross links. Service could start pretty soon. Hawaiian Airlines signed a contract with Starlink for WiFi on their aircraft so it might be sooner than later.

Tom

The more I consider it, the more I think I will wait. It could be that there will be a new dish for boats out which has the cable inside the stem, for water proofing, and perhaps more robust motors. 2023 for me, I think.

That power usage is an eye-opener. Wow.

I'd love to understand if just mounting it flat and stationary can work. Obviously not optimal.

Their website says service to Juneau will come online in 2023. As far as I know there is no ground station in range yet.

Helmsman said:

The more I consider it, the more I think I will wait. It could be that there will be a new dish for boats out which has the cable inside the stem, for water proofing, and perhaps more robust motors. 2023 for me, I think.

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I just went ahead and ordered a good cellar antenna and mid-range Peplink router for about $800. I think for coastal stuff that should be pretty good & from what the Seabits article says there are enough dropouts on Starlink to require secondary connection for video calls. So even if I had Starlink I might want the cellular option as well.

All that said, it sure looks like a game changer. The unlimited bandwidth is amazing, particularly at those speeds, and the rate of improvement seems tremendous. Very exciting.