Real Estate funding your cruising?

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Agreed DC is a terrible place to live/work if you’re looking for affordable quality of life. I own 2 rentals in Alexandria (suburb) and they pay for my Boat life 100%~ I do own my vessel outright. First move for me was living on the Chesapeake Bay - it’s a lot less $ and just an hour to the City. Plus I have Ospreys for neighbors:)

I'm guessing we're neighbors. We purchased a tiny home out on the bay to save money as well. It's shocking to me how close we are to DC but yet not a super hot bed for commuters. Even with lower prices here though, I still can't find homes that would cashflow. This is why we had to look out of state.

Good to hear you've had some success with the rentals covering your boating life.
 
When we were full time cruising (away from the USA, and before internet), the biggest "killer" we saw of cruising plans were people who had small real estate holdings, or some small business. Many we met had to give up cruising plans to take care of "business". If you have large enough complexes that you can have a management company--then usually problems solved.

We were able to afford nice boats and financed our cruising by leveraging real estate in S. Calif. I have some rental property, and for the most part it is self sufficient. But there can be those unexpected expenses.

I believe as long as you are at a place where you can manage major issues, then it can be viable. But if you are in remote areas, it can still be a problem.

In retirement one always has to consider inflation. Will your investments keep up with inflation? I have been retired 30 years. The buying power of a dollar when I retired is now almost 2 dollars today. Also one never knows what medical expenses will be. Medicare does not pay all of the costs--and we have no idea what the future and cost of medical care in the US will be.

There are other investments such as the stock market: Dow in 1991 was $2,929.04. Yesterday's close was over $34,000, and there has been a steady income from those stocks.

Choose your poison: Real Estate, Stocks, or Farm land. Boats are generally not appreciating assets. Personally all three are good, but different returns and "value".
 
Question for those of you who've retired and are now cruising. I just read through the "What do you do in real life" and was fascinated by the various backgrounds of TF membership. I'm wondering how many of you earn at least a portion of your income from real estate investments?

I am eligible to retire in 10 years. We've lived a frugal life...

Thanks


For many years I had rental properties, bought at a time when the rent covered the mortgage PIT, management and a bit left over for maintenance. At one point, as property prices rose suddenly, the cash-over-cash value of the homes did not return a decent net amount; only 1.5% on over $1.5 mil of property. There is also the pain-in-the-ass factor of rental property; it is constant. In the end I sold into a time of good prices and invested the money in a combination of dividend paying stocks, REITS, and well-run mobile home community partnerships. Over the past 12 years I've managed to live well, although not extravagantly on the dividends and income yield. It takes time to buy well and discipline to invest well. Overall I like my free time and have no interest in getting 11 PM phone calls about another leaking toilet.
 
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i just bought a GB 36 which I will be refitting over the next 3 years before retiring. I plan to live aboard and follow the weather for a while. Part of the financial plan is to rent my house out while I do this. I do consider this a bit risky, but I don't have another financial plan at this point unless I hit the lottery. So here goes....
 
For many years I had rental properties, bought at a time when the rent covered the mortgage PIT, management and a bit left over for maintenance. At one point, as property prices rose suddenly, the cash-over-cash value of the homes did not return a decent net amount; only 1.5% on over $1.5 mil of property.

Forgive me for the dumb question but how did your property values increasing negatively affect your Cash on Cash? The appreciation doesn't change how much cash you have in the investment, and may actually increase the rent which would increase your Cash on Cash. What am I missing? I understand the desire not to be bothered with maintenance calls. Fortunately, so far, our PM is great at handling everything and we aren't even notified unless it's over a certain dollar threshold. Seems to be almost as hands off and passive as possible but I know this may not always be the case and it requires finding properties with enough cashflow to cover the PM expenses and still cashflow enough to make the investment worth it.

i just bought a GB 36 which I will be refitting over the next 3 years before retiring. I plan to live aboard and follow the weather for a while. Part of the financial plan is to rent my house out while I do this. I do consider this a bit risky, but I don't have another financial plan at this point unless I hit the lottery. So here goes....

Good luck. What's the worst that can happen, right?
 
Thanks for all the info on your personal experiences. I definitely understand the arguments pro and con, and also the difference between SFHs and MFHs. Based on our current budget, we are only looking at SFHs but certainly would entertain small apartments if our budget ever allows, or we 1031 into one.

Just to clarify, we are being very conservative with this. We have to invest remotely because we live in a very expensive area where the rents don't correlate with home prices. Everything is handled by a property management company which is the only way I'd even consider having rentals. The one property we purchased, and any additional homes we'd purchase, have to have a Cash on Cash of around 8% AFTER all expenses, including PM, 5% for vacancies, 10% for maintenance, and 10% for CAPEX. Otherwise I just don't think it's worth it to take on the headaches of owning rentals - even if most those headaches are experienced by the PMs. Homes that meet this criteria are very hard to find (unless willing to rehab) and we may miss out on some appreciation plays but I really don't want to speculate on appreciation.

I'm going to stick with my criteria mentioned above and look for a few additional properties. If we don't find anymore than so be it. We've done well with our savings and investments so far (who hasn't in this market?) but I think diversification into a handful of cash flowing properties makes sense. I really believe that an extra $500-$1000/month can make a big difference in affording the lifestyle. For some of you with higher incomes it's probably hard to see how that makes an impact but for those in our income bracket that's not an insignificant amount. It's a fuel budget, slip rental, new canvas, etc.

I have a multi pronged approach. #1. I was able to build a pretty good IRA account that I now draw from as needed.

#2. I bought NNN commercial real estate in three different states with 15 year leases from a 33 billion dollar company. Triple net means the leasee pays all expenses including property tax. This means my only real job is cashing checks and paying taxes. Now if I had put this money in the in the stock market I would have done much much better but that is only true when the market goes up. We also expect it to go down and it is great to have monthly income that I can rely on. These are at a 6.75% CAP Rate.

#3. Social Security

#4. I still do some work in retirement and generate some income.
 
Decisions based on cash-for-cash basis

Forgive me for the dumb question but how did your property values increasing negatively affect your Cash on Cash? The appreciation doesn't change how much cash you have in the investment, and may actually increase the rent which would increase your Cash on Cash. What am I missing? I understand the desire not to be bothered with maintenance calls. Fortunately, so far, our PM is great at handling everything and we aren't even notified unless it's over a certain dollar threshold. Seems to be almost as hands off and passive as possible but I know this may not always be the case and it requires finding properties with enough cashflow to cover the PM expenses and still cashflow enough to make the investment worth it.

Hi Dory,
While the property values increased, I did not see a corresponding increase in rents. Originally a property bought for $200,000 covered its costs with some overage. As the values increased the opportunity to sell became more compelling as the equity increased, coupled with higher price. At the time of selling I could get 4 1/4% risk-free on the 30 day spot cash market, while the properties could not net near that. Two years after I sold the market dropped 25-30% and took 8 years to regain the price I had sold at. In that time I built a stock portfolio that let's me live off the returns, with more that my principal intact and paid for 15 years of living.



Like you I had many good years and a good PM, but circumstances changed and I did too. Housing is not entirely risk free, would be a core awareness.


cheers, Doug
 
I "know" a guy on the Internet. :socool::rofl:

Seriously, I and the guy is on another website he and I have been on for over 20 years. :eek: That sure is a LONG time....

One of the thing he has done, starting at age 18, was to buy a house in bad shape, move in, fix it up, rent it and repeat. He owns quite a bit of residential housing in the bay area of CA.

After listening to what he has to do as a land lord, I decided we would almost never invest in residential properties. The horror stories he has had, and what I have seen personally, have put me off the entire idea.

Having said that, his two big problem areas are:

  1. The Tenants
  2. The Government and regulations.
The Tenants of Horror have been mentioned but his biggest problem is the government. He has so many issues with government regulations that it really is unreal. He is treated as a Rich, Evil Landlord, with no rights, just obligations, while the tenants have all of the power, but no risk. He has had to Buy The Keys to get tenants out of his properties...

My advice if one is investing in rental, residential properties, is to dig deeply into the government regulations in the investment area and see how hard and expensive it will be to evict people, pick the tenant, what regulations are in force for the property owner, etc.

The guy I know is selling, or trying too, the government out there has rules on selling your property when it is being rented, and buying commercial properties. I think in another state. :rolleyes:

Later,
Dan
 
My thoughts

Great comments and astute remarks. Like most investments buy low sell high! We purchased 2 single family homes in 2011 and 2012, respectively. We sold one house in 3/21 for $223,000 and had about $85, 000 invested. 34 visits, 14 offers in 3 days. Annual income about $11,000 after property taxes and insurance. Generally selling real estate is more expensive than selling stocks (real estate commission 5%, fix up costs, state transfer taxes etc). IMHO owners need to be local, hands on and mechanical to reap above average returns.

That said, I believe we are in a single family real estate bubble. But who knows? Lumber, property and labor costs are growing. (Additionally, factor in China costs).

SPY (S&P 500 index) is 22 times 2021 projected earnings and provides a 1.5% dividend. Today I am investing in SPY, hoping it will provide a better return. Anyone agree?
 
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It's great to hear personal examples from people who are further along in life than I am. Believe me, I'm not convinced rentals are the best option for us. I'd much rather just keep pouring my money into indexes. Our first foray into real estate turned out to be a disaster, but that was over 10 years ago and it was a property that never made sense as a rental. We became "forced landlords" when I had to move for work and the market bottomed out so we couldn't sell. I find many times when I hear rental disaster stories, the underlying properties never really should've been rentals in the first place.

Our current property does make sense, and I'd like to find some others with similar numbers.

So let me ask it this way, with these assumptions. If you could own a handful of properties with the following criteria, would you find it a valuable way to a) diversify and b) help to fund your boating lifestyle? Or would you stick to stocks or other investments?

- Cheap enough that the down payment is a small portion of overall portfolio
- Professional Property management that handles everything from placing tenants, maintenance, updating/remodeling, turnover, etc. In theory, very passive.
- Cashflows after all expenses, including PM, and setting aside 5% for vacancies, 10% for maintenance, and 10% for capital expenses.
- Cash on cash of around 8% - after all the above listed expenses (so essentially equivalent to investing that down payment into the market. But, once the mortgage is paid off, and rents inevitably increase, the Cash on Cash improves.

Those that didn't find their real estate investments to be that great, did the properties ever perform like this? If not, I totally agree, I wouldn't want to waste my time either. But assuming I can find more properties like this, I'd like to think it's a good way to help keep the cruising fund topped off.

Thanks. The info here is a bit less biased then the real estate folks I talk with.
 
...
That said, I believe we are in a single family real estate bubble?
...

I don't believe we are in a bubble. Demand for raw land and houses is at a very high level. Timber prices are sky high due to this demand. Decades ago, in one of the housing booms, timber was either $200 or $400 a thousand board feet. A few months ago, the timber price was $1100/1200 for MBF. :eek:

Timber is being cut all around us as a result.

In my area, very few houses are for sale, and the same goes for raw land, which is driving up prices. A year ago it took 60 days to sell a house. Today it is 30 days. We live in a sorta rural area but I think the demand is higher in the more urban areas near us.

Labor to build new houses is also in short supply, mainly I think because so many people in the trades had to find new work after the 2008 melt down.

It is not use a US thing either. Ireland has seen housing prices rise very quickly and expects higher prices in the future. They too are seeing higher prices for lumber and expect labor shortages that will slow down housing construction which will lead to higher prices....

Me think we are starting a period of much higher inflation.

Later,
Dan
 
SPY (S&P 500 index) is 22 times 2021 projected earnings and provides a 1.5% dividend. Today I am investing in SPY, hoping it will provide a better return. Anyone agree?

Hmmm...is there a top to the stock indexes? Who knows :confused:

But I will say that last year was a great time to invest in the S&P :dance: This year? We'll see.
 
Very interesting discussion here on return on investment vs. return on current value. With rental properties it becomes a huge difference. Are you happy with the return on your original investment or do you see the opportunity to sell and invest what you get for a greater return (just don't forget taxes you'll pay on the appreciation). Much comes back to your original intent on the investment and to your needs and what you're happy with. I know we could sell all or part of our businesses for much more than we have invested in them, but we'll never sell. However, our business was a hobby and the only real intent is to provide jobs but if we had purchased as investments hoping to maximize return, we'd be much different in approach.

On rental properties it may go the other way too. In recessions they lose value, but if they continue to rent for the same amount does that really matter.

Each person must just look at what makes sense for them and when to buy and sell. I knew one person years ago who was in mobile home parks and looked at them just like stocks. When he could buy for 5 times revenue, he'd buy. When he could sell for 7 times revenue, he'd sell.

As to time and effort, if you have to manage the rentals yourself, that may defeat retirement. 10% of our revenues on our rental properties go to property management. That reduces a 6.6% return to 5.8%. Fortunately, our "sister" owns the real estate firm and property management company so at least the money stays in the family.
 
Very interesting discussion here on return on investment vs. return on current value.

On rental properties it may go the other way too. In recessions they lose value, but if they continue to rent for the same amount does that really matter.

Another comment on SFH vs MFH. I have been in both. My SFHs went down in value significantly when the market stalled (2009-12). SFH Properties stopped selling and prices dropped. It was a bad time to have to sell. MFHs at that time did not exhibit the same characteristics. Their market remained at a steady cap rate. Meaning that if the rent income remained constant, so did the value at sale. Over the 15 years I have tracked this the cap rate for average MFH sales in my district has only moved 1% from 6.5% to 5.5%. Since rents tend to not go down significantly in a down market MFHs IMO will tend to hold their value better in a down economy if you can keep them rented.

As to rental rates. I have experienced downward pressure on SFH rents in a bad economy. I have not (yet!) experienced downward pressure on MFH rents. I have had to sit on stable rental income for periods of time before reinstigating my target annual increases, but have not had to retrench.

The steady income is the key driver for my continued interest. I also feel that I understand the business better than I understand the businesses of most of my stock investments. For instance I have a 10 fold increase in my Home Depot stock, yet incurred about a 70% loss on my Ford stock and the elimination of my entire income (they stopped their dividend) before bailing. I thought they were both great companies :>)
 
Great comments and astute remarks. Like most investments buy low sell high! We purchased 2 single family homes in 2011 and 2012, respectively. We sold one house in 3/21 for $223,000 and had about $85, 000 invested. 34 visits, 14 offers in 3 days. Annual income about $11,000 after property taxes and insurance. Generally selling real estate is more expensive than selling stocks (real estate commission 5%, fix up costs, state transfer taxes etc). IMHO owners need to be local, hands on and mechanical to reap above average returns.

That said, I believe we are in a single family real estate bubble. But who knows? Lumber, property and labor costs are growing. (Additionally, factor in China costs).

SPY (S&P 500 index) is 22 times 2021 projected earnings and provides a 1.5% dividend. Today I am investing in SPY, hoping it will provide a better return. Anyone agree?


First--- good for you! With that, you mentioned above selling real estate is expensive. OK, although I would think capital gains and depreciation recapture would be a higher cost than sales.
 
First--- good for you! With that, you mentioned above selling real estate is expensive. OK, although I would think capital gains and depreciation recapture would be a higher cost than sales.

Here's a sad example. Not mine, but a friend. Purchased a four plex during the 2008 recession for $280,000. Net cash income (not taxable) running about $30,000 so 10.7%. However, current value is $440,000 so income would only be 6.8% of that. So what about selling for $440,000. Well, first take 6% off the top for real estate commission so now down to $413,600. Now, the taxable basis of the property is down to $180,000. So, on a sale he does fall in the 15% capital gains rate, not 20% so he'd be taxed on $260,000 and his taxes would be $39,000 leaving him with a net of $374,600. Still great to profit $94k but significantly less that appeared to be $160k and leaves him with $440k to invest, but in what and for what return?
 
First--- good for you! With that, you mentioned above selling real estate is expensive. OK, although I would think capital gains and depreciation recapture would be a higher cost than sales.

These are only applicable if you don't reinvest the proceeds in another Real Estate investment (a 1031 exchange) which defers both depreciation recapture and CGT until your ultimate last sale. If you reinvest part, and take part out you only face tax on the part you take out.

~A
 
I'm not a landlord anymore... I hated toilets,termites and tenants when I had them. Many of my friends have done really well with SFH rentals but I didn't want them. During the covid pandemic, I'm REALLY glad I don't have any rentals. Some poor landlords are feeling real pain in their portfolios.
 
Here's a sad example. Not mine, but a friend. Purchased a four plex during the 2008 recession for $280,000. Net cash income (not taxable) running about $30,000 so 10.7%. However, current value is $440,000 so income would only be 6.8% of that. So what about selling for $440,000. Well, first take 6% off the top for real estate commission so now down to $413,600. Now, the taxable basis of the property is down to $180,000. So, on a sale he does fall in the 15% capital gains rate, not 20% so he'd be taxed on $260,000 and his taxes would be $39,000 leaving him with a net of $374,600. Still great to profit $94k but significantly less that appeared to be $160k and leaves him with $440k to invest, but in what and for what return?

Ugh! Timing is everything. I bought a 4plex in 2013 at the end of the recession for $350k. Since then I have more than doubled the rent and current value at current local cap rate is $985k gross of sale RE taxes and CGT/recapture. I have no reason to sell this property but I get probably 2-3 unsolicited offers every month.
~A
 
These are only applicable if you don't reinvest the proceeds in another Real Estate investment (a 1031 exchange) which defers both depreciation recapture and CGT until your ultimate last sale. If you reinvest part, and take part out you only face tax on the part you take out.

~A


Yes Alan, I am aware of a 1030 exchange. Nikbrush did not mention replacing his sold properties to avoid gains & recapture so I presumed that he did not.
 
I'm not a landlord anymore... I hated toilets,termites and tenants when I had them. Many of my friends have done really well with SFH rentals but I didn't want them. During the covid pandemic, I'm REALLY glad I don't have any rentals. Some poor landlords are feeling real pain in their portfolios.

It's interesting to follow some major investors now in single family homes for rental. They've also set up separate management companies. Very well run operations. I have no idea what their criteria is for buying or for ultimately selling a home. I know the major opportunity on single family rentals is still buying homes in need of some rehab and being able to do those rehabs at reasonable prices. We know a college student who has used a little over half of what she inherited from her father's death and purchased now 4 homes on 3 properties. She buys one each summer, does most of the rehab herself using college students for much of the labor and using a contractor who teaches her plus does the more complex work. She's built a great little business with nice cash flow. She intends to pursue a career in real estate and property management. She absolutely loves her current tenants and they do her as well. She likely will sell one of the homes in the next year or so to the current tenants but she will reinvest if she does. For her it's not an absentee investment but a hands on, hard work job. Definitely not a retirement deal.

She increases the value with the rehabs on average double of what they cost. A lot of sellers out there with homes with some need of work and the sellers either can't afford to do it or just don't want to deal with it.
 
I know the business model guys and they have it down to T... They all invest/rehab/rent in any market that will cashflow. No need to stay local. They buy wholesale and rehab for rental mkt rather than resale. They sell to big money investors and do the property management (really well) for these guys. I did rehab/ flips for several years but got burned out and life circumstances changed. I recently got back in and flip small land lots and acreage. I have a few mortgages on land that I bought for cheap, marked up and owner finance... I really want to push this for the monthly income.
 
Did RE fund my cruising? Well yeah, sorta.

I bought Oregon coast beach properties (because they don't make beach properties any more) way back when I had extra cash and for diversification vs. stocks/funds. Sat on them, didn't build 'cause I figured out that living at the beach F/T was not for me.

Sold them for good cap gains, took the money and bought my boat with part of the funds. Did this as I was completing the slide into full retirement, that helped keep my overall income manageable tax-wise.

Now I just burn through 10% of boat value/year on use fees and maintenance, typical, maybe a bit more, my boat is old (but not as old as me!)

Will be interesting to see who costs more/year as I age out, me or the boat!
 
On rental properties it may go the other way too. In recessions they lose value, but if they continue to rent for the same amount does that really matter.

At this point, as someone who's new to the game and isn't all that far out from retirement, my goal is to simply buy and hold a handful of properties. Any increase or decrease in value really doesn't matter because I have no plan to sell. We'll use the cashflow to add a boat buck or two to our retirement income. Most of what I've studied seems to indicate rents don't change all that much based on the home value. As long as ours cashflows well enough, we can ride out a dip in value and absorb a 10% or 20% hit in rent, which would be pretty extreme.

Who knows what will happen in the future, maybe 1031 into a 4 plex, but that's not the goal at this point. Buying and holding is the plan. Plus, with the budget I have, I won't be investing in any areas that are expected to have huge appreciation. Solid rental markets in midwestern cities that should always enjoy a good rental demand but probably won't appreciate all that much (although this last year was a crazy exception on the rental property we do own.) Buying properties with numbers that make sense, managed by highly recommended Property Managers, and holding on to them is the plan (dream? hope?)
 
Here's a sad example. Not mine, but a friend. Purchased a four plex during the 2008 recession for $280,000. Net cash income (not taxable) running about $30,000 so 10.7%. However, current value is $440,000 so income would only be 6.8% of that. So what about selling for $440,000. Well, first take 6% off the top for real estate commission so now down to $413,600. Now, the taxable basis of the property is down to $180,000. So, on a sale he does fall in the 15% capital gains rate, not 20% so he'd be taxed on $260,000 and his taxes would be $39,000 leaving him with a net of $374,600. Still great to profit $94k but significantly less that appeared to be $160k and leaves him with $440k to invest, but in what and for what return?


I missed something BandB. It does not really matter. I ran the numbers including a depreciation recapture on a 135K accumulation taxed at 25%. My numbers came within 10K or so of yours. Yours is a good example of hidden costs when dumping rental property.

My only reason for running the numbers is at the moment I am bored with nothing to do other than get ready to find something on Netflix.
 
It's interesting to follow some major investors now in single family homes for rental. They've also set up separate management companies. Very well run operations. I have no idea what their criteria is for buying or for ultimately selling a home. t.


You are right!!! WSJ within the last few days told about foreign investors purchasing huge blocks of single family rental homes. Even brand new developments. They must know more about our future than me. Their cap rates have to be in the very low percentages.

IMHO return on investment along with property condition should be the paramount concern when even thinking about rental property ownership.
 
I have some money invested in Fundrise and get an email every time they acquire or fund a new project. Seems like I'm seeing more and more SFH rental communities.
 
At this point, as someone who's new to the game and isn't all that far out from retirement, my goal is to simply buy and hold a handful of properties. Any increase or decrease in value really doesn't matter because I have no plan to sell. We'll use the cashflow to add a boat buck or two to our retirement income. Most of what I've studied seems to indicate rents don't change all that much based on the home value. As long as ours cashflows well enough, we can ride out a dip in value and absorb a 10% or 20% hit in rent, which would be pretty extreme.

Who knows what will happen in the future, maybe 1031 into a 4 plex, but that's not the goal at this point. Buying and holding is the plan. Plus, with the budget I have, I won't be investing in any areas that are expected to have huge appreciation. Solid rental markets in midwestern cities that should always enjoy a good rental demand but probably won't appreciate all that much (although this last year was a crazy exception on the rental property we do own.) Buying properties with numbers that make sense, managed by highly recommended Property Managers, and holding on to them is the plan (dream? hope?)

This has been a great topic and a matter of significant interest in our TF community for good reason. We are all (well most of us) looking to figure out a way to sustain our passion for a depreciating asset that gives us great pleasure with an income that will appreciate and take care of inflation at our pre-determined 'kicking-off' point.

It's worth noting at this point that 30 years ago all you needed was a good job in a 'good company' that would provide you with a good retirement income till death. Many spent years working in large companies for exactly that reason. That all stopped in the 1990s unless you were working for the US govt. In my case I never had a pension plan until our firm was bought by a multinational and shortly after that they turned their defined benefit pension plan into a 401k before it had any real value to me. Pension plans of course have had their problems, if your company was under-funded and subsequently went bust you were done. But it was something at least.

For the above reasons, our current generation of US resident active retirees/near retirees is more likely to have significant assets in a 401k or IRA and less guaranteed monthly income than our parents - if any beyond social security. Therefore we need to take a more active role in self-determination of how to manage that asset.

Lots of views have been expressed: Stock market; SFHs; MFHs and probably others I have missed.

What I have learned from reading all the posts is that there is no one "sure fire" solution to this issue. We all live in different places, have different levels of desire to participate in a post-retirement business, have different opportunities (regarding real estate investments) and different levels of skill and confidence (regarding stock/bond markets).

I remember when I first met with an investment counsellor after I sold my first business in 1999. They designed a fancy investment portfolio of stocks and bonds and told me I should expect a cash return (dividends/LTCGs) of around 6% and an appreciation of 8%. Assuming an inflation rate of 3.5%.

Well none of that happened - but I did learn after I exited their program, that if I was to be successful in investing in the stock market I needed to spend a significant amount of time understanding the companies I would consider investing in, monitoring and re-evaluating regularly.

They didn't teach me that, but I did learn, which proved pretty accurate, that I could expect an inflation rate of 3.5%. I later worked out that I can realize a 3.5% dividend income from stocks that have the capacity for growth (not the 6% they were promoting) and that the growth is pretty up and down. over 21 years it has averaged 5% but there have been huge swings.

My investment portfolio dropped in value by close to 55% in the great recession. I was living on my boat in the Med at the time. I was not following the market or it would have driven me crazy. I held on to as many investments as I could while pulling out the minimum amount to sustain our life in Europe. At that time we had almost no fixed expenses. Our home was rented out and covering its costs. Our needs were all associated with the boat and our meals.

I write this because our decisions have long-term consequences. We learn as we go and make mistakes along the way but the mistakes we make later in life have more lasting impacts. I was foolish to put my trust in my investment advisers, however at that time I had no reasonable alternative option. I didn't have the time or knowledge to try something like real estate.

I went back to work, sold the boat, accumulated cash and now I feel that "I know what I know" I trust my knowledge in terms of directing my assets to an income source that can depend upon and which I understand.

I encourage anyone following this and looking for direction or guidance to understand that whatever approach you take, it will require your pro-active determination/research/analysis/decisions to make it successful. There are no easy 'hands off' solutions that I am aware of. You may be more comfortable with your evaluation of the financial situation and business model of your target investment stock or you may be more comfortable with a small business in the hands of a manager, or a SFH, MFH. They all have unique risks and they all require oversight.

~A
 
Wow! Better real estate investment info on this Trawler Forum than Real Estate Forums. AlanT - great info. I am not sure I can add much to what has already been said, but I can repeat what I think is most important which might add value. My wife and I have invested in real estate for over 30 years. We own double digit units and it is the most significant part of our retirement plan. We didn't have 2 nickels to rub together when we started.

Yes, I think it can be a wise investment for your situation, even though it would be a better Return if you had a longer horizon and planned to leverage your cash by mortgaging.

Suggestions:
1. Buy low. You make your money when you buy, not when you sell.
2. Helps if you are handy. Even if the investment is distant, spending sweat equity there initially can be very helpful.
3. Spend some time with the tenant application process. Make sure they have enough income to pay the rent and they have job and former tenant references. Make sure their credit score is high, unless they have a VERY good reason why it is not.
4. If you are going to be on a boat, find a good handyman and/or contractor. It is key. You can manage your property/properties yourself relatively easily from your boat with today's technology if you have a good handyman. This eliminates some of the cost of hiring a property manager and keeps you in touch with your investment if you want to be.
5. In our area, a 2-family is always a better ROI than a single family home - maybe 10% compared to 6% ROI (cash on cash).
6. Although the stock market is certainly easier to manage and the returns have been good lately, it is not so much fun when the market goes down. There is inherent uncertainty with the market. We prefer the certainty of real estate.
7. Buy in an area of appreciating value if possible.

Good luck.
 
Ok, these last two posts were great. Anyone considering this should read DC’s post and then read it again.

I’ll add a few thoughts:

1. Budget for and keep a reserve account with any investment property. When I buy or build a property I include a substantial reserve account as a line item in the budget. You will have unexpected expenses and interruptions to income. With a reserve account, these are managed like any other part of the business. Without an adequate reserve, owners are stressed and forced to make bad decisions because they may be in a cash crunch. Good real estate will be profitable over time but the cash flow won’t always be constant.
2. Don’t put too much weight on cash-on-cash as a metric for leveraged real estate. If you calculate your return this way on a 20% down deal and then refigure based on only 10% down, your cash on cash almost doubles. Did the investment get twice as good? No, it just got riskier. Learn and use the whole range of analysis tools, with more emphasis on cap rate or some other metric using the unleveraged cost. Then remember without a good location and improvements the numbers won’t be good over time, regardless of what the sales guy says today. And the 10%/20% were just for easy math; don’t use so much leverage if you want to sleep at night and survive a dip in the market.
3. Real estate investment is a business and having some knowledge of the business greatly increases your chances of success. It takes some time and effort to accurately identify value in a stock or an investment property, but without that knowledge and effort both are risky games. Buying any substantial asset that you don’t understand well is a very risky bet.
4. Long-term investments are much more likely to produce real wealth than short-term flipping etc. Taxes are a big factor as has been discussed, but there are real and substantial transaction costs beyond the obvious and those named that will cut your return dramatically over time. It is also difficult to find and purchase (at workable prices) great quality properties. Once you find them, don’t let them go for short-term gain.
5. I don’t do residential for a variety of reasons but the concepts are the same.
 
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