Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-30-2016, 07:29 AM   #101
Senior Member
 
rclarke246's Avatar
 
City: Florida
Vessel Name: Lady Di
Vessel Model: 2012 Beneteau Swift Trawler 44
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 441
The 30 hours of run-time came in 2012 when she was dealer stock. I'm pretty sure that during those hours she was closely supervised by the sales folks, who knew about proper break-in.

The engines had a 2 year warranty and we continually updated (in writing) the dealer and local mechanic, both in Annapolis, about the oil consumption. It was in our 19th month, during our trip to Florida, that I really raised the red flag about the situation. I was adding oil every 8-10 hours! The dealer then put me in touch with Volvo headquarters in Chesapeake, Va., who then delegated to their service rep in SW Florida.

Once it became clear that BOTH engines were consuming inordinate amounts of oil Volvo committed to replace the "long blocks". Then, in a lucky twist, Volvo informed me that due to some EPA restriction on importing long blocks from Sweden I was going to get new "bob tails", which, as I understand, come completely outfitted with new peripheral equipment, like starters, alternators, belts- everything!

Looking back, I don't see this as any great inconvenience; rather, it was quite a learning experience. Yes, I have certainly invested scores of hours, from checking dipsticks to the final sea trial, but, after all, nothing beats "messing around on boats"!
Attached Files
__________________
Advertisement

rclarke246 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2016, 07:44 AM   #102
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,259
From what I read, hear and see... you are a lucky guy to have Volvo act so responsibly. Also, congrats on your demeanor that assisted in Volvo's responsible actions.


You've a great attitude!


Art
__________________

Art is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2016, 07:57 AM   #103
Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,274
Reading this post and seeing the comments about the Audi consuming a quart of oil in 3000 miles reminds me of the days when General Motors used to claim that oil consumption of a quart in 800 miles being acceptable!
Lots of engines consume some oil, some are more prone to the issue than others. I'm glad to see Volvo stepping up to the plate in this case as it was pretty clear that something was amiss.
Bruce
Bruce B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2016, 09:27 AM   #104
TF Site Team/Forum Founder
 
Baker's Avatar
 
City: League City, Tx
Vessel Name: Floatsome & Jetsome
Vessel Model: Meridian 411
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce B View Post
Reading this post and seeing the comments about the Audi consuming a quart of oil in 3000 miles reminds me of the days when General Motors used to claim that oil consumption of a quart in 800 miles being acceptable!
Lots of engines consume some oil, some are more prone to the issue than others. I'm glad to see Volvo stepping up to the plate in this case as it was pretty clear that something was amiss.
Bruce
The 2001 Corvette ZO6(LS6 engine) was an oil burner. And GM claimed that a quart every 1000 miles was "normal".

Anyway, glad everything turned out well!!! And it is not uncommon for boats to accumulate hours while in dealer inventory. They take them to shows and basically just ride around and show the boat. 30 hours is actually a little on the low side. I have seen a boat with 200 hours that had never been titled. It was a 39 ft Island Gypsy. Boat ended up being sold for $150k. It was a few years old...it got caught up in a bankruptcy....and the bank fire sold it. That was the steal of the century!!!
__________________
Prairie 29...Perkins 4236...Sold
Mainship Pilot 30...Yanmar 4LHA-STP...Sold
Carver 356...T-Cummins 330B...Sold
Meridian 411...T-Cummins 450C
Baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2016, 09:58 AM   #105
Guru
 
City: gulf coast
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,441
Quote:
The 30 hours of run-time came in 2012 when she was dealer stock. I'm pretty sure that during those hours she was closely supervised by the sales folks, who knew about proper break-in.
My suspicion is exactly opposite yours. those salesmen were trying to sell boats and running fast is a big part of that. I see new boats being delivered to boat shows every year never seen them running slow.
bayview is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2016, 10:32 AM   #106
Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,274
Quote:
Originally Posted by bayview View Post
My suspicion is exactly opposite yours. those salesmen were trying to sell boats and running fast is a big part of that. I see new boats being delivered to boat shows every year never seen them running slow.
This brings up an interesting subject. Break in strategy.
What does Volvo say about break in? I know that on my Ram truck with a Cummins 6.7 there is no engine break in required. Ram wanted you to put on 500 miles before towing so that other components of the truck could break in but the manual specifically says no break in required for the engine.
We have friends with an American Tug 34 who were given specific instructions from the Cummins rep who familiarized them with the engine to run it fast for 100 hours. Then and only then were they told that they could reduce speed if they wanted. They drove all over the place at speed and they have no issues that I am aware of...
I haven't seen manuals that describe Cummins break in for the boat yet but I am interested in knowing what Cummins says specifically.
Just curious,
Bruce
Bruce B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2016, 11:02 AM   #107
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,259
When I had had decades experienced race car machinist rebuild my 1967 Buick Wildcat carbed 430 cid., 360 hp., 500 +/- ft. lb. torque monster engine... He instructed me carefully - Put in 30 wt. non detergent and a pint bottleof special break in lube he supplied. Then start engine and in park for 25 minutes (clocked) hold the engine steady at 2500 rpm. Immediately drain oil and replace with Valvoline 20/50 wt. and 4 oz ZDDP. Drive 500 miles under normal conditions but not over 65 mph... with no set speed held for over 1/2 hr. at a time. Drain oil and replace with same Valvoline and 4 oz. ZDDP. Drive 1000 miles at normal speeds. Drain and replace same lube mix/brands again. Then - Go For IT!!! Man is she ever a power crazy runner. I change oil every 2.5K mi... never uses more than 1/4 qt. between changes. Of course filters always changed too.


Only item that initially gave me trouble was the Rochester Quadrajet carb's internals. Got the once over from a carb expert... then... when that was straightened out fast acceleration is what I like!


PS: Having recently been appraised [in a thread] of "Militech" lubrication enhancer I'm very interested to learn more before placing it into any of my many classic aged engines... all w/ flat tappets. So far I like what I hear!
Art is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2016, 11:09 AM   #108
TF Site Team/Forum Founder
 
Baker's Avatar
 
City: League City, Tx
Vessel Name: Floatsome & Jetsome
Vessel Model: Meridian 411
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,135
Brand new horizontally opposed airplane engines(like the O360 in a C172) they want you to run the damn thing WIDE OPEN for the first 25 hours. We would get an airplane with a new engine and they would throw us the keys. I have to say....it was a little unnerving and noisy as hell!!!
__________________
Prairie 29...Perkins 4236...Sold
Mainship Pilot 30...Yanmar 4LHA-STP...Sold
Carver 356...T-Cummins 330B...Sold
Meridian 411...T-Cummins 450C
Baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2016, 11:28 AM   #109
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,539
Deere and Lugger want you to run hard during break-in. The guideline is more than 50% load, for more than 50% of the time for the first 100 (or maybe it's 50) hrs. Supposedly the rings don't seat properly unless there is high enough cylinder pressure. But these are all continuous duty engines, so the rules might be different compared to a similar engine with a higher HP rating like the volvo.
__________________
MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2016, 11:41 AM   #110
Guru
 
City: gulf coast
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,441
IMO some hard running is required for proper break in. How hard and is hard is the question as is the duty cycle.

Salesmen are not usually shy about pushing it.
bayview is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2016, 01:23 PM   #111
Senior Member
 
rclarke246's Avatar
 
City: Florida
Vessel Name: Lady Di
Vessel Model: 2012 Beneteau Swift Trawler 44
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 441
The Volvo mechanic said the following regarding break-in:

1) run normally except be sure to vary the rpms every 10-15 minutes
2) change the oil and filter at 50 hours

Not much else was said.
rclarke246 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2016, 02:38 PM   #112
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 20,284
Quote:
Originally Posted by rclarke246 View Post
The Volvo mechanic said the following regarding break-in:

1) run normally except be sure to vary the rpms every 10-15 minutes
2) change the oil and filter at 50 hours

Not much else was said.
Here is Volvo's break in instruction.

Running in
The engine must be “run in” during its first 10 hours,
as follows:

Use the engine in normal operation. Full load should only be applied for short periods. Never run the engine for a long period of time at constant speed during this period.

Higher oil consumption is normal during the running in period. For this reason, check the oil level more frequently than normally recommended.

After the first period of operation, the specified warranty inspection “First service inspection” can be done. For more information: Please refer to the Maintenance Schedule.


And this is the first service inspection.
First service inspection, after 20–50 running hours
Coolant level and antifreeze mixture I
Drive belt (tension) I
Seawater filter I C
Drive-unit, oil level I
Corrosion protection (space between IPS-housing and clamping ring) I
Instrument panel function I

Start and warm up engine
Inspection with VODIA (Diagnostic Tool) I
Engine and transmission, oil / fuel / water leakage I
Engine and transmission, abnormal noises I

Stop Engine
Engine Oil and Oil Filters / By-pass filter R
Restart engine

Oil pressure / oil leakage I
1) Or within 180 days of the date of delivery, or the end of the first season, whichever comes first.
They should have done that initial service before you purchased it and not told you to do it at 50 hours.

No way to know how it was run during those 30 hours or if it had any role in this. I'm convinced that Volvo experienced this problem on more than your engines so likely not from any care or operation.

I'm going to toss in one more comment. Often we criticize Volvo and much is over price and acquisition of parts. Well, on the inland lakes Volvo I/O's are extremely popular and there are dealers who provide excellent service. Many feel them to be superior to Mercruiser. I owned both and had no issues with either.

When it comes to diesels in the US, they are the "other brand." Fewer knowledgeable mechanics, in fewer boats, and, not surprisingly, fewer parts available. Still, I've seen other examples of responsiveness. In Europe, where they are more mainstream, they're highly regarded.
BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2016, 01:22 PM   #113
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 9,254
Quote:
Originally Posted by rclarke246 View Post
The 30 hours of run-time came in 2012 when she was dealer stock. I'm pretty sure that during those hours she was closely supervised by the sales folks, who knew about proper break-in.

The engines had a 2 year warranty and we continually updated (in writing) the dealer and local mechanic, both in Annapolis, about the oil consumption. It was in our 19th month, during our trip to Florida, that I really raised the red flag about the situation. I was adding oil every 8-10 hours! The dealer then put me in touch with Volvo headquarters in Chesapeake, Va., who then delegated to their service rep in SW Florida.

Once it became clear that BOTH engines were consuming inordinate amounts of oil Volvo committed to replace the "long blocks". Then, in a lucky twist, Volvo informed me that due to some EPA restriction on importing long blocks from Sweden I was going to get new "bob tails", which, as I understand, come completely outfitted with new peripheral equipment, like starters, alternators, belts- everything!

Looking back, I don't see this as any great inconvenience; rather, it was quite a learning experience. Yes, I have certainly invested scores of hours, from checking dipsticks to the final sea trial, but, after all, nothing beats "messing around on boats"!
Here is a question, would Volvo and Beneteau stick with the hopefully positive outcome if this were a used boat (2nd owner) but still in the warranty period? Were there specific serial numbers that were deemed problematic by Volvo?

How about crossing international borders, say I bought this specific low hour vessel in Europe and wanted to bring it to the US? Inquiring and curious minds----?
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 12:56 PM   #114
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 258
Be thankful for insurance. Closer inspection should reveal additional hatch covers are removable.
MVDarlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2016, 04:48 PM   #115
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ski in NC View Post
How do you run the boat? Planed out or trawler speed? If you run trawler speed, the rings may have never had a chance to seat in.

24oz is a good bit of oil to use in 15hrs, but not horrible. I'd be pee'd off if a new boat burned that much. But the fix is going to be very disruptive for what? A few bucks worth of oil a travel day?

Maybe make a deal with Volvo where you accept the burn rate in exchange for an increase in warranty period.
I would say it's horrible, especially for a new boat that someone paid good money for. He would be adding oil every other day on a cruise. And if he forgot, it could ruin the engine.

My engine (Volvo) has over 4K hours on it and burns no oil between changes. That's how it's supposed to be.
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 12:04 AM   #116
Dauntless Award
 
Wxx3's Avatar
 
City: Wrangell, Alaska
Vessel Name: Dauntless
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 - 148
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,802
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
Here is Volvo's break in instruction.

[I][INDENT]Running in
The engine must be “run in” during its first 10 hours,
as follows:

Use the engine in normal operation. Full load should only be applied for short periods. Never run the engine for a long period of time at constant speed during this period.

Higher oil consumption is normal during the running in period. For this reason, check the oil level more frequently than normally recommended.

After the first period of operation, the specified warranty inspection “First service inspection” can be done. For more information: Please refer to the Maintenance Schedule.
.
I think this is probably the break-in procedures for most engines in the last 100 years, excluding those already mentioned that need WOT.

And also agree that there is probably more than meets the eye here with Volvo. As others have mentioned, just to change the engine for oil consumption is a bit extreme. More likely, some other issue, maybe emissions or even that long time to drain oil into pan, probably is indicative of internal issues that Volvo knows will not go away.
__________________
Richard on Dauntless,
New York

a Kadey Krogen 42 currently: https://share.garmin.com/dauntless
Blog:
https://dauntlessatsea.com
Wxx3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 02:55 PM   #117
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,408
It surprises me (It doesn't really) that a post about Volvo stepping up and replacing defective engines can be turned into a Volvo bashing post by some people.

The OP had a problem, Volvo checked on the problem and decided the best fix was to replace the engines. For any other manufacturer, that would have been the end of it.

From Volvo's point of view, there are two concerns:
1) Resolve the issues at the least expense to the company.
2) Make the customer happy.

Apparently, replacing the engines is less expensive than trying to fix the problems. For me, that would be what I would prefer.

And the suggestion of Volvo replacing the engines with another brand is beyond ridiculous. Way beyond ridiculous.
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 03:11 PM   #118
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 20,284
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesK View Post
It surprises me (It doesn't really) that a post about Volvo stepping up and replacing defective engines can be turned into a Volvo bashing post by some people.

The OP had a problem, Volvo checked on the problem and decided the best fix was to replace the engines. For any other manufacturer, that would have been the end of it.

From Volvo's point of view, there are two concerns:
1) Resolve the issues at the least expense to the company.
2) Make the customer happy.

Apparently, replacing the engines is less expensive than trying to fix the problems. For me, that would be what I would prefer.

And the suggestion of Volvo replacing the engines with another brand is beyond ridiculous. Way beyond ridiculous.
There may be some bashing in the thread but I think the general attitude has been complimenting them. I do think there are questions though as to whether they experienced the issue more widely that tie to their agreeing to replace.

As to whether this discussion would have ensued on any other engine, I believe it absolutely would have the same. I've seen discussions very similar to this on nearly all manufacturers. The greatest CAT lover I know will warn about certain issues and engines they built.

Volvo definitely did all the right things in this case. Now, if I was about to purchase the same boat with the same engines, I'd be very careful and observant. Especially if built about the same time. That's because we don't know the cause of failure. It could be Volvo was experiencing some issues, it could be improper break in, and it could be just one of those random things. Ultimately, companies do prove themselves more by how they handle problems than how they deal when everything is going right. So, in this case I'd give these two engines D's, but give Volvo's response an A+. The handling was great but doesn't erase the fact there was a problem.
BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 04:36 PM   #119
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,408
Volvo has been around for a very long time and this wouldn't be the case if they made bad products or didn't stand behind their products. They continue to be a major player in the marine engine field.
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2016, 05:19 PM   #120
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 20,284
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesK View Post
Volvo has been around for a very long time and this wouldn't be the case if they made bad products or didn't stand behind their products. They continue to be a major player in the marine engine field.
I think I stated much the same earlier in the thread. However, all engine builders at times make products below their normal standards and have issues. Volvo has earned their fans and their critics and both have very good reasons. I think most of the praise is valid and most of the criticism is as well.
__________________

BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×