New Tech Propane Engines

[Nomad Willy]

In this episode of Path to Zero, Host Tucker Perkins invites Dr. Bryan Willson, executive director of the Energy Institute at Colorado State University (CSU), and Dr. Daniel Olsen, mechanical engineering professor at CSU, to provide an in-depth look into the recent $3.5 million U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) grant awarded to the university for the development of new, high-efficiency propane engines.

show notes
The objective of this 3-year DOE project is to develop propane engines as close to efficient as diesel engines, with an emphasis on heavy duty engines.
CSU has a 30-year history of gaseous fueled engine development, using alternative fuels such as propane, natural gas, hydrogen and biofuels. With the university’s world-class research facility, Powerhouse, they also have the capability to work on large and powerful engines.

 

[Lepke]

For land engines, ok. But boats, the engine gets a few years on, a lazy owner, and boom, the boat next door blows up while starting.
A propane gallon has about 50,000 btus less than a gallon heating oil, roughly #1 diesel.
If you've ever has a dual fuel generator, propane/gas, the difference in run time is about 30% less. The only advantage is you don't get fuel separation or varnish buildups.
From propane gas leak:

 

[Nomad Willy]

Lepke I thought many would find it interesting. Not trying to sell propane engines but this being a boating forum I suppose I shouldn’t have posted it.

I had a 73 Buick that had been converted to propane. Really liked how it ran, especially when cold. It ran just like it did cold because the fuel was already vaporized.
Efficiency was a bit more w some cars and a bit less w others. The “saddle back” fuel tank was in the trunk and just about took up the whole trunk. Don’t remember the numbers but it was very cheap to run burn wise.

Conversions were smoother too but now modern automotive engines are better. But as you say installing a propane engine in a boat would be much like going to the front in Ukraine.

I was curious about why they were using heavy duty engines (Cummings). It would seem to me automotive gas engined would be plenty strong enough. Got any ideas?
I thought the difference in economy would be the cheaper price of propane.

 

[GoneFarrell]

WSJ article from 2020 says about 1/4 of new ship tonnage on order spec LNG or propane fuel systems.

I've seen a couple car carriers coming up the Columbia with lots of tanks on top deck.

Looking for cleaner burning performance, especially in harbor

 

[Hippocampus]

Big issue I can see is availability. Been to a fair number of places where propane in any form is unavailable. Just getting enough to cook is problematic. Need to find someplace that’s using forklifts or other such machinery and has a way to get it. Then bargain to get some. Multiple islands have no infrastructure using propane so thinking they would put fueling stations that could service boats (not ships) isn’t going to occur with current economics.
Interesting subject but not applicable imho to some on this forum.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Hippocampus wrote;
“ Big issue I can see is availability”.

I didn’t have any trouble w the Buick but it had great range and I got the propane where I worked. Lots of propane sold here for camping and such.

But it’s absolutely not for boats.

 

[HopCar]

There are propane outboards available now. I think both Tahatsu and Mercury sell one. I sold quite a few when Lehr was making them. I liked them because they could sit for months and start on the first pull. I also liked that they were less polluting.

We were allowed to start and run them inside the convention center at the Miami Boat Show. None of the gasoline outboards were allowed to run inside.

 

[Lepke]

Ships are being built to run on LGN and bunkering vessels to refuel those ships are also quickly being built.
A ship has full time engineering watch, lots of ventilation, detectors, so the gas buildup issue isn't like boats where enginerooms are usually unmanned with some lax owners including commercial that should know better.
I had a dual fuel, gas/propane, portable generator I ran on propane. I liked it because I could lay it up for years and it would start right up. But I didn't use it on a boat.

 

[Hippocampus]

Availability is a very different animal outside the good old USA.

 

[HopCar]

People react as if propane on a boat is dangerous but have no problem with gasoline engines. In my opinion propane is slightly less dangerous than gasoline. Gasoline vapor will explode in a slightly wider ratio of vapor to air than propane. Spilled propane will dissipate much quicker than gasoline because it vaporizer instantly and can be ventilated much quicker.