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12-14-2016, 08:16 PM
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#21
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Veteran Member
City: Maryland
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 36
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Tranny rebuild
After flushing 3 gallons of fresh tranny fluid through it is still milky. I was going to unwinterize and try running it in slip to better flush it out but have decided these things are too expensive to fool with and would rather do rebuild. My local independent transmission shop who is highly respected in community and has done work for me a couple times has stated $800 plus parts but hope that will be under $200 for rebuild kit.
I called and asked how much for Borg Warner velvet drive 72c 2:1. Instead of a never heard of it his response was I'll have to check with Harry but he does a few of those most years.
Doesn't seem out of line, so dragging out my assortment of come along, 1 ton chain hoist, truckers chains and saw horses to get this out of the engine room. Only thing I can't picture is if it's unbolted forward and aft does it have splined shaft that needs to be slid away from engine?
Just wondering.
Eddie Zuskin
Sea Ranger 47
Sent from my iPad
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12-14-2016, 08:24 PM
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#22
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Guru
City: Groton, CT
Vessel Name: Datenight
Vessel Model: North Pacific 45
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,103
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[QUOTE=Eddieandgail;My local independent transmission shop who is highly respected in community and has done work for me a couple times has stated $800 plus parts but hope that will be under $200 for rebuild kit.
[/QUOTE]
A wise choice Eddie. I used a local transmission shop (non marine) for a BW rebuild several years ago. Total price was $750.00 sounds like you are in the ballpark.
Rob
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North Pacific 45
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12-14-2016, 08:40 PM
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#23
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Enigma
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,540
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Greetings,
Atta boy Mr. Eddie. I agree with Mr. D. Good clean out and piece of mind. Watch your fingers and toes...
__________________
RTF
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12-14-2016, 09:19 PM
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#24
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Guru
City: Boston
Vessel Name: Adelante
Vessel Model: IG 30
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,608
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Spray all bolts/nuts with PB Blaster.
Move the prop shaft back a few inches,
support trans
unbolt from bell housing
Move straight back a couple of inches, up and out.
There is a short splined shaft that fits into damper plate.
If you move it back at an angle you might bugger up the damper hub.
(Same with reinstallation.)
Inspect the damper plate. $100 part and easy to replace once trans is out.
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12-14-2016, 10:10 PM
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#25
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Veteran Member
City: Maryland
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 36
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SoWhat,
That helps to know that I should be able to push prop shaft back a few inches, resolves the logistics of how to not pull out at an angle. In my pile of supplies I'm throwing together is a stack of various sized short 2x4s to build up under tranny. Also saw mention of using threaded rod to aid in lining up a couple holes on re install, I've done that with a couple engine head projects to not mess up a new head gasket.
Eddie
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12-15-2016, 05:45 AM
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#26
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Guru
City: Brookline, NH
Vessel Name: Shalloway
Vessel Model: Defever 44, twin Perkins
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,259
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Yes, you can't take it out at an angle - straight back about 3" and it will disengage from the engine. If more than a couple thousand hours on it, most people recommend changing the damper plate while you're there. (The damper plate bolts to the engine flywheel and is what the transmission shaft actually engages into)
My engine had 2 studs which - left in - greatly aided re-installation. If you don't have those, a couple of pieces of 5" threaded rod will really help put it back in.
Ken
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12-15-2016, 12:10 PM
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#27
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Technical Guru
City: Wilmington, NC
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,194
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Second that about putting in a fresh damper plate, that's a wear item. Also new input shaft and output shaft seals. Input shaft seals seem to not last as long as rest of the gear and no fun dumping a sump load of fluid into the bilge, then burning up clutches.
Check reduction gear parts for wear. Check clutch condition. No need to rebuild, just clean up, inspect and reseal. These are robust gears and worth freshening up.
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12-15-2016, 04:37 PM
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#28
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Guru
City: kemah
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddieandgail
Only thing I can't picture is if it's unbolted forward and aft does it have splined shaft that needs to be slid away from engine?
Just wondering.
Eddie Zuskin
Sea Ranger 47
Sent from my iPad
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Yup, and the splines slides into the "damper plate" which looks a lot like a clutch plate. The damper plate bolts to the flywheel just as a clutch plate does. Gotta make sure you can slide the prop/shaft back far enough to pull the tranny out of the damper plate.
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12-15-2016, 05:19 PM
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#29
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Guru
City: Here
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,940
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If installing a new damper plate consider a polyurethane unit. Much smoother, quieter and no rattling springs like the old style. Very pleased with mine
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12-25-2016, 09:55 PM
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#30
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Veteran Member
City: Maryland
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 36
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Got a friend to help me remove velvet drive after cooler failure and filled with milkshake oil. Interesting wrestling match getting it slid out along threaded rods to keep it level and boards underneath to keep it from dropping after clearing rods and still had a couple inches to spare of the 5" that prop shaft moved back. Got it between the 2 motors and a chain hoist into salon and on its way to Rehab.
A small oil puddle at bottom of Lehman bell housing so now will need to remove flywheel to replace rear engine seal. Further and further down the rabbit hole doing projects that are totally foreign. Anyone removed a flywheel and rear seal from SP135 Lehman?
Eddie
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12-26-2016, 05:44 AM
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#31
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Guru
City: kemah
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,135
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It might not be worth it, either american diesel or bomac has a disclamer that their rebuilt lehmans arent guaranteed to not leak (I forget which one).
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12-26-2016, 07:13 AM
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#32
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TF Site Team
City: Jacksonville
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by what_barnacles
It might not be worth it, either american diesel or bomac has a disclamer that their rebuilt lehmans arent guaranteed to not leak (I forget which one).
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Bomac has the disclaimer. They rebuilt our SP135. In prior discussions, Greg warned us about it. The leak is maybe an oz between oil changes it looks like. The alternative was to get a new crank at $2k plus. We're living with it.
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12-26-2016, 08:33 AM
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#33
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Veteran Member
City: Maryland
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 36
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Rear seal
Surprised by suggestion to leave it alone. I had not seen any oil leaking under that motor for the 200 hours since I have owned it. About 2 tablespoons, at most, on bottom lip of bell housing when removed. I would be thrilled to not need to explore further so will check in with Brian on Tuesday.
Eddie
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12-26-2016, 09:20 AM
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#34
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Technical Guru
City: Wilmington, NC
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,194
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If I remember the Ford rear seal right, it is a split seal that would require dropping the oil pan and likely need lowering crank to access. Maybe more modern versions have a removable seal plate.
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12-26-2016, 09:57 AM
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#35
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TF Site Team
City: Jacksonville
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ski in NC
If I remember the Ford rear seal right, it is a split seal that would require dropping the oil pan and likely need lowering crank to access. Maybe more modern versions have a removable seal plate.
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My parts manual shows a 2 piece rear seal and here are the instructions from my service manual.
I'm curious what Brian says about a leak.
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12-26-2016, 10:23 AM
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#36
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Technical Guru
City: Wilmington, NC
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,194
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On one Lehman 120 it was leaking bad out the rear seal. Engine also had a good bit of blowby. The little vent in rocker cover and the whatever valve caused pressure to build in crankcase. Owner was not enthused by the prospect of a rebuild as otherwise, engine ran fine.
I welded on a larger fitting in rocker cover and used a larger diameter vent. No more pressure in crankcase. The oil leak out the rear seal was GONE.
The split rear seal is not really a seal, but a drip reduction device. Just kidding a little there...
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12-26-2016, 10:53 AM
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#37
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Guru
City: Carefree, Arizona
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48 (sold)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,179
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Ski
Does the install slope angle play a role in rear seal leakage? And yes, IMHO most English design diesels rear main seals are just drip reduction devices as father time comes into play.
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12-26-2016, 11:11 AM
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#38
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Technical Guru
City: Wilmington, NC
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser
Ski
Does the install slope angle play a role in rear seal leakage? And yes, IMHO most English design diesels rear main seals are just drip reduction devices as father time comes into play.
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It may. But best results come from minimizing crankcase pressure. And that is easier than changing engine angle!!
Also make sure you are not running with too high of an oil level. The pan is pretty deep, so doubt crank is contacting oil level, but that is on the list.
There is a "slinger" ring between last main bearing and seal area, this is supposed to throw oil away from seal. If there is no pressure or even a slight vacuum in crankcase, it won't leak even if there is no seal at all!! Which may be closer to the truth on many engines.
Airsep filters work by applying a slight suction on crankcase. Not sure it would work on one of these as airflow is pretty low.
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12-26-2016, 12:25 PM
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#39
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Guru
City: Boston
Vessel Name: Adelante
Vessel Model: IG 30
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,608
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As others have mentioned, replacing the rear seal is a major job.
I would simply remove the bottom bolt from the bell housing. Any oil getting past the rear seal will then drip out. A few tablespoons is not worth worrying about.
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12-26-2016, 03:09 PM
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#40
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TF Site Team
City: Jacksonville
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoWhat
...I would simply remove the bottom bolt from the bell housing. Any oil getting past the rear seal will then drip out. A few tablespoons is not worth worrying about.
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The SP135 actually has a drain plug just forward of the lower bell housing bolts. I asked the rebuilder to leave it out. He already had.
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