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Old 09-20-2019, 04:02 PM   #21
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Fgarriso- Thanks, I appreciate your input. My mind certainly isn’t made up. I will say that I’m looking at boats that are 40+ years old for a reason though. I know that anything I get will need a lot of work. The question is if I can do it myself.

KOliver- You mentioned the transom being Airex cored and any wood in place would be from a PO. The surveyor stated the transom was FRP. If the 2X4’s in place were put in by a PO, they must have glassed over them. I should have taken more pics. Does this change your advice regarding the transom?
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Old 09-20-2019, 05:38 PM   #22
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KOliver- You mentioned the transom being Airex cored and any wood in place would be from a PO. The surveyor stated the transom was FRP. If the 2X4ís in place were put in by a PO, they must have glassed over them. I should have taken more pics. Does this change your advice regarding the transom?
Your surveyor couldn't have cut into the transom to see whether it is solid or cored. "FRP" means nothing more than he observed that it was made of FRP. My own boat is built by C&L in Taiwan. I have seen some Puget Trawlers that refer to their builder as "C & L", though there were so many builders in Taiwan at the time and a lot of shuffling around that it is not likely you can now say who the actual builder was without actual documentation. That said, mine has Airex core in the transom. I know because I personally cut into it. It is also solid above the waterline on the hull sides. Again, I personally cut into it.
If the swimgrid supports bolt through 2x4s that are covered in fibreglass that appears original, then that is likely original, though surprising to me. If those are rotted, how was that determined?
You say "Also, the stern showed some area of rot around the posts that the swim step was screwed into. " Do you mean the floors around those posts, or the posts themselves? The floors are exposed to water leaking from the hatch above, the posts themselves, not so much. In either case, that doesn't sound like a difficult repair.
If you decide to expand the size of the swimgrid, what I did was to flip mine over, so the underside became the top, and add to the inside, between the old inside edge and the transom. It now looks like it was made that way originally and the weathering of the present top side is consistent over the old and newer portions. Flipping also allowed me to locate the new supports in locations on the transom that were all at least the width of the support away from the original locations, in turn allowing a proper sealing of the old holes.
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Old 09-20-2019, 10:01 PM   #23
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My boat has a solid glass transom. Some have solid and some have cored. I would think that more are solid that are cored. I cut an 8Ē hole through mine when I put my stern thruster in. The wood may just be a backing plate for the swim platform supports. If that is the case it would be an easy job to replace the backing plates.
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Old 09-21-2019, 04:10 AM   #24
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Maybe I'm looking at the picture of the exhaust elbow upside down, but it seems that the the cooling water addition point is on the uphill side. Meaning that some water can potentially back flow into the engine exhaust side during shutdown.

Double check this possibility, if true it's a problem.
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Old 09-21-2019, 11:13 AM   #25
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Maybe I'm looking at the picture of the exhaust elbow upside down, but it seems that the the cooling water addition point is on the uphill side. Meaning that some water can potentially back flow into the engine exhaust side during shutdown.

Double check this possibility, if true it's a problem.
Not as a regular occurrance. I took this same type of exhaust off my Lehmans. They are designed so the cooling water can only 1) drain down into the "exhaust hose" side of the riser or 2) drain back down into the raw water supply. Both the jacketed lower riser (which has an injection point) and the jacketed upper riser do not have openings into the center exhaust areas.

THAT SAID, if either were to ever corrode through.... reason #3 why I chose not to put mine back and switched to the more common 45 deg elbow with a water lift...

On this boat, not a reason to stall the sale; and since this exhaust design has likely been on there since new, not a reason to force a negotiation- but something for a future owner to consider as a replacement/upgrade as these risers age.

More concerning are the total refit costs for this boat that have come up in this and the other thread the OP started.

I'm curious Wanna-b, did the water and waste systems check out ok? someone mentioned the for sale pics look like the water heater is rusted, and it certainly looks that way. At survey we thought mine was fine, and it basically made it on our delivery trip and quit. Same with toilets, we thought they were working and I had one of mine out on the back deck trouble shooting it on our delivery cruise, and then found a major problem with the holding tank. Because of all the sitting and little use, that would make me worry about all the other systems that have see little use... All these things add up. Sometimes its hard to catch them all at survey. Hopefully they were all checked well to give you that input.
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Old 09-21-2019, 04:27 PM   #26
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The surveyor did mention the water heater appeared to be rusted out. Here is the rest of what was found-
Attached Thumbnails
19C8A548-807D-44A1-B9CA-B6AB90E71F43.jpg   AF3692ED-F82A-4D18-AEA3-6E51B3D4F50B.jpg  
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Old 09-21-2019, 05:04 PM   #27
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I canít read it, but it could be my eyes...
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Old 09-21-2019, 06:06 PM   #28
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Appears to be mostly R&R which is good of you can negotiate down.
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Old 09-21-2019, 09:13 PM   #29
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The way I read those recommendations (I've completed 4,986 surveys and totally rebuilt three junkers) is about $40 - 50k worth of work minimum, if you hire people to do it.
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Old 09-21-2019, 10:35 PM   #30
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Thanks, I figure I can do almost anything myself. If I donít get it right the first time, I think I will still be ahead if I get it right on the 2nd or 3rd try. I saw a laundry list of small stuff that the current owner paid to have done. Was $18k for very basic things
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Old 09-21-2019, 11:04 PM   #31
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Anything you see that needs real technical work? Most things seem like YouTube worthy stuff.
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:26 PM   #32
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I bought her

Well all....I bought her. Proud new owner of a 40í project🤦🏻*♂️. Haha, well I donít think it will be that bad. Here are my plans, please include things that you may recommend.

1. Make bilge spotless
2. Change all fluids
3. Replace all hoses and belts that may need it (order spares)
4. Change all filters (order spares)
5. Repack rudder and propeller shaft boxes

When I get it hauled out (hopefully sooner than later)
1. Replace thru-hulls and seacocks (all seacocks are seized)
2. Replace soft soft wood on transom and re-glass it

Thatís just my starting list. I do have a couple of questions..
1. Where do you guys go to for supplies? West Marine? American diesel?
2. Anyone know of boat yards in the Seattle area that allow owners to do there own work?
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:46 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Wanna-b View Post
Well all....I bought her. Proud new owner of a 40í project🤦🏻*♂️. Haha, well I donít think it will be that bad. Here are my plans, please include things that you may recommend.

1. Make bilge spotless
2. Change all fluids
3. Replace all hoses and belts that may need it (order spares)
4. Change all filters (order spares)
5. Repack rudder and propeller shaft boxes

When I get it hauled out (hopefully sooner than later)
1. Replace thru-hulls and seacocks (all seacocks are seized)
2. Replace soft soft wood on transom and re-glass it

Thatís just my starting list. I do have a couple of questions..
1. Where do you guys go to for supplies? West Marine? American diesel?
2. Anyone know of boat yards in the Seattle area that allow owners to do there own work?

Anytime you can buy engine parts (or anything else for that matter) from a non-marine source, you will likely save money.
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:48 PM   #34
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American Diesel for FL parts
Fisheries Supply for other parts (they offer a new boat owner discount)
I think SeaView (Shilshole) allows some DIY repairs in their yard. So does South Park Marina. Port Townsend definitely does but...not near Seattle.

Good luck with your project. Happy to connect in real life sometime if I can offer any of my limited but hard earned DIY experience.
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Old 10-01-2019, 06:02 PM   #35
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Thanks Airstream, I will take you up on that offer!
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Old 10-01-2019, 06:49 PM   #36
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Also check out Defender Marine, Hodges's for electrical parts like motors and pumps and Deep Blue Yacht Supply for anything to do with cutlass bearings.

Within your to do list I would also suggest replacing all rubber goods on the engines (hoses, belts, fuel lines) and take a very close look at all of the heat exchangers.

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Old 10-01-2019, 06:49 PM   #37
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Congratulations on your new boat. Like you we purchased a 40 year old boat that needed some deferred maintenance taken care of, some similar things you're seeing. If it were me I'd address safety and USCG compliance issues up front. Top of the list would be either freeing or replacing the seacocks. You need to also change those cracked hoses, those types of things can sink you. Finally, you're required to have operating running lights, we had the same issue and the fix was very simple (burned out bulb in one case, and bad ground in the other).

If you need a haul out in Seattle that allows you to do your own work, consider Canal Boatyard in Ballard (I don't work for them!). We used them a number of years ago without issue and they claim they have a list of contractors who they can refer you to if things get out of hand. Also, several of the former Jensen Motorboat employees are doing contract work, I had great experiences with the Jensen crew (Peter Proctor 206-605-0227 was the foreman).

For supplies, consider Seattle Marine and Fishing Supply on West Commodore way. It's aimed at the commercial fleet and has a good selection with reasonable prices. I also like Fisheries Supply.

Finally, I learned that no matter what I expected on costs old boats have a way of surprising you, be prepared for some 'discoveries'. Frankly I'd be a bit worried about that water tank and why just one of them rotted out. Is that tank leaking?
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Old 10-01-2019, 06:54 PM   #38
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Oh, final comment. On the velvet drive I've had two heat exchangers fail (every 10-15 years) and when they start to leak the drive pumps its oil into the cooling water. It will drop out of gear when it gets low (which is sort of a self protection fail safe!). In particular if your drive heat exhanger uses salt water, I'd change it. If it uses fresh water, I'd carry a spare.
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Old 10-01-2019, 07:18 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanna-b View Post
Well all....I bought her. Proud new owner of a 40í project🤦🏻*♂️. Haha, well I donít think it will be that bad. Here are my plans, please include things that you may recommend.

1. Make bilge spotless
2. Change all fluids
3. Replace all hoses and belts that may need it (order spares)
4. Change all filters (order spares)
5. Repack rudder and propeller shaft boxes

When I get it hauled out (hopefully sooner than later)
1. Replace thru-hulls and seacocks (all seacocks are seized)
2. Replace soft soft wood on transom and re-glass it

Thatís just my starting list. I do have a couple of questions..
1. Where do you guys go to for supplies? West Marine? American diesel?
2. Anyone know of boat yards in the Seattle area that allow owners to do there own work?
Fiberglass Supply - Burlington, WA: Fiberglass, polyester resin, epoxy, cabosil, milled glass fibers, etc These guys are into building surfboards, but will stop and talk to you about any project you are doing and offer any help you might need. While they aren't necessarily boat restoration experts, they know their products and will make sure you have what you need to make the job come out right. They are a small local business, and their prices are competitive enough for me to shop there regularly, but I live 15 minutes away so I never have to worry about shipping gallons of resin. I'm sure you can find shops like this down in Seattle, but I don't know where they are.

Harbor Freight: 4" grinder, Oscillating saw (for your fiberglass demo work), flapsanding discs for 4" grinder, disposable gloves. Think about a good shop vac and PPE for this kind of work, the grinding and demo is miserable.

American Diesel: Ford Lehman marinized parts. (Anything added to the base engine to cool it in a boat, basically.) A few of the things they sell, like some of the raw water hose, are simply straight RW hose cut to the right length for me, but buying the entire hose kit means you have it all in one swoop ready to go. I'd love to keep them in business at least as long as I'm around, so I support them!

Harbor Marine (Everett, WA): Your local transmission experts. Pricey, but you've already heard that these things are. They are the only chanderly at Everett Marina besides WM and have a good old fashioned parts counter, if they don't have it they can find it. Again, I try to stop in and shop there when I can to give them business so they will be there when I need them. I stopped in to see what they could tell me about engine mounts, and they welcomed me into the back, educated me about the different mountings the LH came with, opened up some historical sales literature on the FL, and had the new mounts I needed in stock (all 8 of them for my twins.) This is a good old school shop that hires young guys and trains them to work on these marine trannys, which is really good to see in this day and age. They hired a guy from my son's class out at the marine tech school in Anacortes.

Sure Marine, Ballard: Have a look at their website. If you have/need any of the products they sell, please keep them in business. They are another one of those businesses you can call on the phone for technical assistance with the installation of (for example) your Webasto diesel heater, and they will walk you through the possible issues, and sell/ship you the $12 worth of parts you need to make it happen - my personal experience. They also helped me properly reconfigure the ducting of my heating system that didn't quite seem right, but I didn't know for sure how to redo it. I was on the right track, but they honed in on the best method to accomplish what I was doing - over the phone, for free, and their method, while using some more expensive ducting, ended up costing the same because I was able to use less of it.

Regarding your seacocks - I had some that I thought were seized, that in fact just needed some regular prodding before they would move. Not force, just regular attempts to get them unstuck. Seacocks are (generally) pretty durable items and you might find you don't need to replace them, just exercise them.

I've got to run to school, but others have shared some "care and feeding of the Ford Lehman" tips with me in the past... I'll see if I can find it for you as that might help you look at your engine with a critical eye as to what is important to start with.

Congrats!
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:17 AM   #40
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Man, you guys are money. I appreciate all the tips. My list just keeps getting longer, but thatís ok.

Fractal- I thought I saw you were in La Conner. I will be moored at the La Conner Marina until a spot in Seattle opens up. If youíre up for coming by Iíd love to pick your brain.
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