EC300 twin disc controller troubleshooting?

[wkearney99]

Anyone know what flashing lights on an EC300 Power Commands engine/transmission controls mean? I've got a boat set up with two of them and two Caterpillar C12 engines with Twin Disc transmissions.

One of the stations seems to have developed a problem. The usual way to change stations by tapping the 'Station Select' button no longer seemed to work. It'd just cycle rapidly back/forth between the two stations instead of switching. I suspect that it might be the Station Select button on it has gotten stuck. I disconnected the flybridge station (big cable connector into the bottom of it) and the boat runs fun with just the lower station control.

I notice the remaining station is flashing the yellow neutral lights.

It appears to be flashing 3-2-2? Anyone know what error condition that indicates?

https://youtu.be/U8DaahJvbRU

 

[twistedtree]

Anyone know what flashing lights on an EC300 Power Commands engine/transmission controls mean? I've got a boat set up with two of them and two Caterpillar C12 engines with Twin Disc transmissions.



One of the stations seems to have developed a problem. The usual way to change stations by tapping the 'Station Select' button no longer seemed to work. It'd just cycle rapidly back/forth between the two stations instead of switching. I suspect that it might be the Station Select button on it has gotten stuck. I disconnected the flybridge station (big cable connector into the bottom of it) and the boat runs fun with just the lower station control.



I notice the remaining station is flashing the yellow neutral lights.



It appears to be flashing 3-2-2? Anyone know what error condition that indicates?



https://youtu.be/U8DaahJvbRU

It look like your switch is in express mode, and I suspect that’s not what you want?

 

[wkearney99]

It look like your switch is in express mode, and I suspect that’s not what you want?

Switch position for this makes zero difference in this situation. It's just how the system sets the idle and clutch. Cruise is sort of regular, Express has a more gradual engagement, trolling engages a valve, and the sync regions overlapping match engine RPMs. When it neutral it makes no difference where the knob points, and the engines will only start when in neutral.

 

[twistedtree]

Switch position for this makes zero difference in this situation. It's just how the system sets the idle and clutch. Cruise is sort of regular, Express has a more gradual engagement, trolling engages a valve, and the sync regions overlapping match engine RPMs. When it neutral it makes no difference where the knob points, and the engines will only start when in neutral.

Ok, thanks. In the manual Trolling and Express modes are the two things that supposedly flash yellow LEDs. If you google EC300 manual or something similar, it’s online. I
Might have even gotten it from Twin Disc’s site. I didn’t see any error code flash patterns, but only did a quick search.

 

[wkearney99]

Well, I wouldn't argue strongly that they can't indicate things about express/trolling operations, just that they didn't flash like that before I started having problems with the other controller.

I went rummaging through my folder of PDF for all my hardware and found the EC300 manual (#1020607). In which it states on pg 151:

The yellow Neutral Indicator LED light(s) provide for transmission status indication. Each Neutral Indicator LED will light constantly if the Transmission is in Neutral. It will flash if the Controller is in the Direction Disable Mode during
engine warm-up.

It goes on to explain 'Direction Disable Mode' as being activated by holding station select and moving a lever forward or backward out of neutral mode. This being a means by which to use RPMs elevated above 'idle' to warm up the engine.

In the video I posted the sequence was to power up the system, with the levers in neutral, and then press the Station Select button just once (not hold it). That and if I move the lever out of neutral it engages the gear in that direction. This leads me to believe those flashing lights aren't telling me it's in Direction Disable mode.

That and the system is configured with 'Neutral Station Transfer' not 'Acknowledge Station Transfer' mode. The latter mode has flashing indications, but they're not what's involved here.

It is possible the 3-2-2 code is telling me there's supposed to be a second controller attached. Which it isn't because having it connected was causing the system to freak out.

I'm still on the hunt to find a list of what the flashing codes mean on the EC300.

 

[wkearney99]

Don't know if it was an available selection at the time, but from looking at the Twin Disc docs it sure would be nice if the 1018791 Display modules had been included on my setup. It'd be nice to have a text display and the ability to engage testing/diag modes. The wiring's not there from the control module. Wouldn't be a simple plug-and-play unless I pulled cabling from the control unit up to the station(s).

Though I do see the unused J4 connector on the control units listed as having NMEA-2000 connections in it. That could be interesting. No idea what it shares to the bus, or if it's even active on the models I have installed. The manual calls it "Service Connector" and mentions it as "Factory Use Only". I'm not terribly keen on the idea of mucking around with the throttle and transmission controls though. It's one thing to extract data for monitoring, it's another to risk accidental operation of something than can cause the boat to MOVE.

 

[wkearney99]

Finally managed to find a list of the error codes and, as I suspected, 3-2-2 is:

"TRAN SYS FAULT" "STATION2 322 MISSING" Control Head 2 is configured but not detected.

So that at least explains what the active problem is.

I've removed the 2nd controller from the boat and have opened it. But there appears to be a lot of silicone or other material gooped around inside 'to protect it'. It'll be a challenge getting to that switch. For an added bonus of inconvenience, the interconnects between the components are all made from flexible PCB ribbon. Have to be really careful mucking around with those otherwise they're easy to tear.

Appears to be a fair bit of mineral/salt deposits on the 'top' side of the main connector's flexible circuit board. The pix are while the unit is 'upside-down' so the raised board there normally faces 'up' (inside the control). I can easily wipe bits of it off the board, but left enough on there so it'd show up in the pix.

Maybe I might get lucky and get away with cleaning up this board, maybe touching up a solder joint or two, and reassembling it.

Because if I have to replace the switch it looks like I'd have to disassemble most of the internals to gain access to it. It's buried in the center of the second picture, you can just make out the rounded edge of the flexible pcb soldered to it. Can't even see the switch assembly for all the sealant gooped around it.

 

[wkearney99]

I did manage to get a closer look at the switch appears to have a part number on it that reads "P4-900087"

Which, according to Mouser seems to be made by OTTO:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/OTTO/P4-900087?qs=LW8h5wBZGrFbFnE1k%2BPswg==

But their catalog/website doesn't list it. Sort of close to it though (last page of this pdf)
https://www.otto-controls.com/-/med...ctuators-for-Basic-Switches-Catalog-Page.ashx

This picture also shows the additional flexible PCB that's farther in there, on which the front LEDs and mode select knob are attached.

I'll try to get ahold of someone at Twin Disc and find out what my servicing options are for this. I'd be glad to let someone else do the refurb/repair on this now that I've seen inside of it.

 

[wkearney99]

Should anyone else ever need the Twin Disc EC300 LED flashing error codes:

221   TRAN SYS FAULT / "INPT SPD SHORT"    Input speed sensor (engine speed) is shorted.
222   TRAN SYS FAULT / "INPT SPD OPEN"     Input speed sensor (engine speed) is open.
223   TRAN SYS FAULT / "PROP SPD SHORT"    Propeller speed sensor is shorted.
224   TRAN SYS FAULT / "PROP SPD OPEN"     Propeller speed sensor is open.
231   TRAN SYS FAULT / "OIL TEMP HIGH"     Transmission oil temperature is high.
232   TRAN SYS FAULT / "OIL TEMP LOW"      Transmission oil temperature is low.
233   TRAN SYS FAULT / "OIL TEMP OPEN"     Transmission oil temperature sensor is open.
234   TRAN SYS FAULT / "OIL TEMP SHORT"    Transmission oil temperature sensor is shorted.
235   TRAN SYS FAULT / "INT TEMP HIGH"     EC300 internal temperature is high.
236   TRAN SYS FAULT / "INT TEMP LOW"      EC300 internal temperature is low.
241   TRAN SYS FAULT / "FORWARD CIRCUIT"   Forward valve circuit is either open or shorted.
242   TRAN SYS FAULT / "REVERSE CIRCUIT"   Reverse valve circuit is either open or shorted.
243   TRAN SYS FAULT / "TURBO CIRCUIT"     Turbo (spare) output circuit is either open or shorted.
244   TRAN SYS FAULT / "SHFT BRK CIRCUIT"  Shaft Brake output circuit is either open or shorted.
245   TRAN SYS FAULT / "TROLL CIRCUIT"     Troll valve circuit is either open or shorted.
246   TRAN SYS FAULT / "NEUTRAL CIRCUIT"   Neutral valve circuit is either open or shorted.
247   TRAN SYS FAULT / "TrollEnb CIRCUIT"  Troll Enable valve circuit is either open or shorted.
251   TRAN SYS FAULT / "Rev&Fwd BD COMBO"  Reverse valve and Forward valve are simultaneously on.
252   TRAN SYS FAULT / "Rev&Neut BD COMBO" Reverse valve and Neutral valve are simultaneously on.
253   TRAN SYS FAULT / "Rev&Brak BD COMBO" Reverse valve and Shaft Brake output are simultaneously on
254   TRAN SYS FAULT / "Rev&NRly BD COMBO" Reverse valve and Neutral Start relay (engine start relay) are simultaneously on.
255   TRAN SYS FAULT / "Fwd&Neut BD COMBO" Forward valve and Neutral valve are simultaneously on.
256   TRAN SYS FAULT / "Fwd&Brak BD COMBO" Forward valve and Shaft Brake output are simultaneously on.
257   TRAN SYS FAULT / "Fwd&NRly BD COMBO" Forward valve and Neutral Start relay (engine start relay) are simultaneously on.
261   TRAN SYS FAULT / "Trl&TEnb BD COMBO" Troll valve and Troll Enable valve are NOT simultaneously on.
262   TRAN SYS FAULT / "Rev&Stab BD COMBO" Reverse valve and Stabilizer Disable output are NOT simultaneously on.
263   TRAN SYS FAULT / "Fwd&Stab BD COMBO" Forward valve and Stabilizer Disable output are simultaneously on.
321   TRAN SYS FAULT / "STATION1 MISSING"  Control Head 1 is configured but not detected.
322   TRAN SYS FAULT / "STATION2 MISSING"  Control Head 2 is configured but not detected.
323   TRAN SYS FAULT / "STATION3 MISSING"  Control Head 3 is configured but not detected.
324   TRAN SYS FAULT / "LEVER FAULT"       Lever voltage of the active Control Head is out of range.
325   TRAN SYS FAULT / "STATION1 LOW"      Control Head 1 power supply voltage is low.
326   TRAN SYS FAULT / "STATION2 LOW"      Control Head 2 power supply voltage is low.
327   TRAN SYS FAULT / "STATION3 LOW"      Control Head 3 power supply voltage is low.
331   TRAN SYS FAULT / "ILLEGAL MODE"      Mode Switch voltage of the active control head is invalid.
421   TRAN OIL FILTER / "FILTER PLUGGED"   Differential pressure across the transmission oil filter is high.
422   TRAN SYS FAULT / "COMM FLT Link Dwn" Communications link between EC300 controllers has failed.
423   TRAN SYS FAULT / "LOW OIL PRESSURE"  Transmission main oil pressure is low.
433   TRAN SYS FAULT / "ThrotPwr HIGH”     Throttle interface voltage (from engine controller) is high.
434   TRAN SYS FAULT / "ThrotPwr LOW"      Throttle interface voltage (from engine controller) is low.
435   TRAN SYS FAULT / "MEMORY FAIL-CLK"   EC300 non-volatile data memory failure.
436   TRAN SYS FAULT / "COMM FLT No Heads" At power on, Control Head 1 was not detected.
521   SERVO FAULT / "NO THROTTLE"          Servo actuator is configured as a mechanical throttle and has an over current failure.
522   SERVO FAULT / "NO GEAR"              Servo actuator is configured as a mechanical gear actuator and has an over current failure.
523   SERVO FAULT / "NO TROLL"             Servo actuator is configured as a mechanical troll actuator and has an over current failure.
531   PWR PROB / "I15 HIGH"                System battery voltage is high.
532   PWR PROB / "I16 LOW"                 System battery voltage is low.
533   PWR PROB / "I17 HIGH"                EC300 internal reference voltage is high.
534   PWR PROB / "I17 LOW"                 EC300 internal reference voltage is low.
535   TRAN SYS FAULT / "I13"               Program memory failed CRC check at startup.
621   TRAN SYS FAULT / "GerRatio HIGH"     Computed gear ratio is high.
622   TRAN SYS FAULT / "GerRatio LOW"      Computed gear ratio is low.

 

[twistedtree]

Nice job digging into this, and glad you found the codes.

I’m not sure why you are concluding that the problem is with the switch? Maybe I missed something.

And I can’t really see it clearly enough, but is one end of one of those red jumpers disconnected?

 

[wkearney99]

This problem started back last Fall, the week before winter decommissioning. That button on the upper station seemed to be 'sticking'. In that it was not rebounding with the same tactile release as the one at the lower helm (and how it had previously). The controllers were very confused about which station was supposed to be the active one. This happened just as we were about to head home at sunset. Thus a quick troubleshooting step was 'unplug the damned thing' and to run from below.

This was 'supposed to get fixed' over the winter... but didn't. That's a whole other set of stories.

As to your point, the red jumpers are connected. There's just a lot of what I'm assuming is salt/mineral deposits from this being up on the flybridge since the boat was built back in 2005. My plan is clean off the deposits and possibly touch up whichever of the solder joints on that board look like they need it. I have a good iron and have done this sort of thing before, so I'm not expecting that to make anything worse.

I did manage to pry into the 'goop' and I think it was hot glue. That is, it's not as sticky/stretchy as silicone would be, and not as brittle as epoxy. This has allowed me to get a better look at the switch area and I may be able to get it out of there. More on that tomorrow.

 

[wkearney99]

SOLVED. I disassembled the controller, cleaned the PCB and touched up a few solder joints that looked suspect, reassembled it and returned to the boat. I swapped this 'suspect' controller from the flybridge with the one in the salon. More often than not we run from the flybridge, so it makes some sense to use the 'known working' controller up there. Wasn't too difficult, the only challenge being gaining access to the underside of the EC300 units to tighten the fasteners. Fortunately both locations have an adjacent control panel for other gear. Those were easily removable to allow reasonable access.

Side note, put a work rag under where you're doing a job like this so you don't extend the chore due to having to find where a nut or washer suddenly drop down into... Pro-tip for NEXT TIME.

Fired it all up and ta-da, no errors. Seems like I lucked out with a simple cleaning.

 

[wkearney99]

HEY-O... everyone in the marina Saturday evening heard me shout "OH ****" when the swapped controller did the SAME THING on me. This just as a thunderstorm started kicking up and I was halfway backed into the marina fairway. How I didn't manage to hit anything is nothing short of a miracle.

3-2-2 blinking, and loss of control at the upper station again. Now the question is can I get replacement EC300 controls, or are the latest models still backward compatible... hopefully the tech will get back to me with good news on that front.

 

[wkearney99]

Tangentially, are there such things as covers for these BEP Marine breaker panels?

Note the placement of the bow/stern thruster controllers. Lower station on the left, upper station middle, and the breaker panel for the engines that's just barely visible on the lower station.

In the panic of switching stations I mistakenly reached for where the thruster controllers are at the UPPER station and managed to flip one of the engines OFF. Thankfully they come back online in seconds, so it didn't get THAT MUCH WORSE. But it tells me this needs addressing as to avoid future confusion.

I could probably move the controls around a bit on the lower station to better match those of the upper. Though I'm not sure there's enough slack in the cabling to allow for it (because of course there won't be).

So an interim solution would be some sort of cover that made it harder to make that mistake again. I'd still need control of the breakers, as they're the off/on for the engines. I'm thinking maybe something acrylic and hinged.