Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-22-2019, 04:00 PM   #1
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,087
300hp Diesel Outboards

WOW. Nice except for the price tag. 40hp some day?

https://www.powerandmotoryacht.com/v...esel-outboards
__________________
Advertisement

Alaskan Sea-Duction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2019, 04:07 PM   #2
Guru
 
Crusty Chief's Avatar
 
City: Las Vegas/West Coast
Vessel Name: Pairadice
Vessel Model: Selene 47
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,849
Cool!
__________________

Crusty Chief is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2019, 05:17 PM   #3
TF Site Team
 
Larry M's Avatar
 
City: Jacksonville
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,835
I’ll be curious to see if the commercial guys buy in. At double the price to comparable hp gas engines the recreational market might be a tough sell. How many gas engines get worn out? It will be interesting to see the performance numbers of these vs gas though, that might be the main selling point.
Larry M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2019, 05:23 PM   #4
GFC
Guru
 
GFC's Avatar
 
City: Tri Cities, WA
Vessel Name: Red Stripe
Vessel Model: Monaco Cayman 35' diesel pusher
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,322
Nope, at $55K each I'd never be a player for something like that. Nice idea, great concept, poor presentation and production.
__________________
Mike and Tina
2008 Monaco Camelot 350hp Cummins
1981 Boston Whaler 13'
GFC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2019, 05:29 PM   #5
Valued Technical Contributor
 
DavidM's Avatar
 
City: Litchfield, Ct
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 5,871
These new diesel outboards were developed for the commercial/military market where diesel is often the only fuel available or is mandated.


But I have to hand it to them for making them fresh water cooled which provides much longer life than the typical outboard. I suspect 99% of outboards die of corrosion, not internal wear.



David
DavidM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2019, 06:37 PM   #6
Guru
 
Simi 60's Avatar
 
City: Queensland
Vessel Model: Milkraft 60 converted timber prawn trawler
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,449
The Yanmar diesel outboards never took off either.
Simi 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2019, 07:57 PM   #7
Guru
 
Pete Meisinger's Avatar
 
City: Oconto, WI
Vessel Name: Best Alternative
Vessel Model: 36 Albin Aft Cabin
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,091
They are very expensive but I suspect you will be seeing them on DNR, Coast Guard, and in the commercial market.

My 120 hp F.L. is all I need.

pete
Pete Meisinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2019, 08:14 PM   #8
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 15,576
Greetings,
They have the right idea in Thailand IMO. Longtail boats.






__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2019, 08:38 PM   #9
Guru
 
Benthic2's Avatar
 
City: Boston Area
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,873
Its interesting that gas outboards started small....and then grew as time went on....the Diesels start out big...hopefully they can shrink over time. Something like a 150 or 200 on a boat like the TT35 ( sans production issues ) would be a home run I think.
Benthic2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2019, 09:27 PM   #10
Guru
 
Simi 60's Avatar
 
City: Queensland
Vessel Model: Milkraft 60 converted timber prawn trawler
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benthic2 View Post
Its interesting that gas outboards started small....and then grew as time went on....the Diesels start out big...hopefully they can shrink over time. Something like a 150 or 200 on a boat like the TT35 ( sans production issues ) would be a home run I think.
The Yanmar diesel outboards of around 20 years ago were 30hp from memory

Trying to find that info I see Yanmar are trying again

Quote:

DTORQUE TURBO DIESEL OUTBOARD ENGINE - 50 HP
The Neander Dtorque turbo diesel outboard engine sets a new benchmark in diesel engineering. The 804 ccm twin-cylinder aluminum powerhead delivers 50 hp at the propeller shaft
https://www.yanmarmarine.com/dtorque/
Simi 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2019, 11:13 PM   #11
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly View Post
Greetings,
They have the right idea in Thailand IMO. Longtail boats.
CWAZY!!
Art is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2019, 11:42 PM   #12
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 20,295
There are continued efforts on diesel outboard. Perhaps there is some potential on commercial boats. However, giving those 300's on the boat they were on a quick look, I see the following issues. 1-Cost-Double 2-Weight-50% more. 3-Performance, specifically on that boat with twin Yamaha 425's, it will run 62 mph vs. the 38 mph of the Cox Diesel and it would run between 50 and 55 mph with twin 300 Yamahas.

I keep waiting for Cox and a boat builder to pair up a pairing that makes sense in the market. Perhaps a trawler outboard where speed and weight aren't really factors and then see if anyone will pay for the convenience of diesel.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2019, 08:31 AM   #13
Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,122
Interesting article. While I understand the comments about cost, perhaps they miss the potential savings. The trial is on a speed boat. Consider one or two of these downrated to trawler engine sizes. Using outboards vs inboards frees up tremendous space - engine room becomes a utility room. Apart from saving inboard engine cost, it saves transmission and drive components including shafts and props. Installation costs are substantially lower. So, I think there are a number of beneficial offsets to the cost, which will likely come down if the consumer market accepts the approach. Though, my guess is installing one of these vs the conventional approach will save money even today if all costs are figured in. On the other hand, I always thought the US did not permit diesel outboards for environmental reasons.
Chrisjs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2019, 08:44 AM   #14
Guru
 
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft Catalina 381
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 3,533
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisjs View Post
I always thought the US did not permit diesel outboards for environmental reasons.
Generally specific technologies aren't banned, but it's quite likely that up to this point, it's just been too hard to make one that meets the emissions requirements and is affordable enough and practical. Plus, weight is a concern for outboards and conventionally, diesels are heavy.
rslifkin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2019, 09:58 AM   #15
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,268
I can see o/b's being designed onto/into naval architecture for new boats; wherein weight distribution can readily be factored into a boat's design.

General circumstances regarding pluses/minuses on many fronts of i/b - vs - o/b will be sussed out by boat designers and owners.

What I have hard time seeing is adding o/b's heavy weight as new power source to the back of boats that originally were designed for i/b engine[s] weight placement. Problem here is weight distribution and therefore altered boat handling conditions in and during many types of sea conditions.

I know that "ballast" can be added to [best as possible] overcome some of the weight distribution change... But... IMHO, a boat that needs ballast-weight haphazardly added in order to try and compensate for some other substantially altered weight distribution circumstance is simply not the wisest maneuver to do to any boat.
Art is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2019, 10:19 AM   #16
Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,122
Admittedly usually midships, but combined weight of 500 gallons diesel, 250 gallons water, and 25 gallons of blackwater is approx. 5,700 lbs. that could be positioned more forward to offset stern weight. Also, figure the weight of prop(s), drive shaft(s) that are no longer at the stern, and heavy batteries that can be relocated from engine room. While I agree that refitting an existing boat would be a challenge and not worth the effort, I can easily see the advantages of new designs with outboard(s) vs inboards. Just think, engine replacement - disconnect a few cables and fuel lines and get a crane, not to mention easier access for dockside repairs!! For practical purposes access for all routine maintenance would need to be accessible from the vessel - can't see standing in the dinghy trying to change a part while underway!!
Chrisjs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2019, 10:40 AM   #17
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisjs View Post
Admittedly usually midships, but combined weight of 500 gallons diesel, 250 gallons water, and 25 gallons of blackwater is approx. 5,700 lbs. that could be positioned more forward to offset stern weight. Also, figure the weight of prop(s), drive shaft(s) that are no longer at the stern, and heavy batteries that can be relocated from engine room. While I agree that refitting an existing boat would be a challenge and not worth the effort, I can easily see the advantages of new designs with outboard(s) vs inboards. Just think, engine replacement - disconnect a few cables and fuel lines and get a crane, not to mention easier access for dockside repairs!! For practical purposes access for all routine maintenance would need to be accessible from the vessel - can't see standing in the dinghy trying to change a part while underway!!
"... can't see standing in the dinghy trying to change a part while underway!!"

LOL X 2

Many items to overcome. If o/b's can become an often desired option there will be another sales point for boat builders to "sell" people on.

Myself... preferred engine and driveline layout in power boats will likely remain as i/b engine hooked to direct drive transmission ratio with through hull shaft and prop.
Art is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2019, 10:44 AM   #18
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 20,295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisjs View Post
Admittedly usually midships, but combined weight of 500 gallons diesel, 250 gallons water, and 25 gallons of blackwater is approx. 5,700 lbs. that could be positioned more forward to offset stern weight. Also, figure the weight of prop(s), drive shaft(s) that are no longer at the stern, and heavy batteries that can be relocated from engine room. While I agree that refitting an existing boat would be a challenge and not worth the effort, I can easily see the advantages of new designs with outboard(s) vs inboards. Just think, engine replacement - disconnect a few cables and fuel lines and get a crane, not to mention easier access for dockside repairs!! For practical purposes access for all routine maintenance would need to be accessible from the vessel - can't see standing in the dinghy trying to change a part while underway!!
I can see a lot of advantages to outboards, but not to diesel vs. gas. I have a friend who is a captain and has run a Tiara 43 LS several times recently and it's a very impressive boat with triple Yamaha 425's. It outperforms a similar Tiara with twin 725 Volvo's or 715 Cummins at a significant cost savings. There are now some very large center consoles with outboards, several over 50'. A few "pocket trawlers" with outboards and very happy owners. The expansion continues and outboard diesels continue to be discussed, prototyped and even built, but haven't yet been successful at creating a market.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2019, 08:49 PM   #19
Guru
 
Benthic2's Avatar
 
City: Boston Area
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,873
One draw back to outboards....is that a 30 foot inboard becomes a 35 foot outboard, with the accompanying increase in marina/dockage/storage fees.

I would think some of the weight could be offset by a deep, hollow ( or foam filled ) swim platform.
Benthic2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2019, 09:58 PM   #20
Guru
 
City: Satsuma FL
Vessel Name: No Mo Trawla
Vessel Model: Hurricane SS188
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benthic2 View Post
One draw back to outboards....is that a 30 foot inboard becomes a 35 foot outboard, with the accompanying increase in marina/dockage/storage fees.

That is what Miz Trom was complaining about when they found their 35 foot TT35 was actually 43'.
__________________

__________________
Buffalo Bluff Light 28
Donsan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×