Lesson learned quickly!

[nobles9596]

A lesson from my lack of knowledge:

This past winter I replaced both steering helms on my trawler so this past weekend I took it out to test the operation and to reset the autopilot. It all worked great.

Later that evening I went down to the boat to watch the sunset and noticed it had a slight lisp to the port side. Wind was blowing pretty hard so it did not really concern me.

Prior to leaving the boat for the night I lifted the floor hatches out and was shocked to see 12 inches of water in the bottom of the boat and heard water running. I immediately flipped on the auxiliary bilge pump and the sump box pump. I had a shop vacuum on the boat that I used as well. I also put an emergency call in to a marine mechanic and he responded quickly.

I isolated and found the leak to be the PSS Dripless shaft seal that I had installed new three years ago, because I was tired of the boat smell of salt water dripping in the bilge from the standard packing seal. The mechanic loosened the allen screws and slid the collar tighter to the ring and tigtned it down and the leak stopped immediately.

I vacuumed all the sea water out and washed down everything throughly with fresh water. I then cut the AC on very cold, left the hatch covers opened and set up fans. By morning it was all dry.

I learned that the PSS dripless shaft seal needs to be adjusted every six months and needs to be rebuilt or replaced every six year even if it looks brand new.

There was no marina close by that was open to lift the boat out if I had not gotten the leak stopped. My last ditch effort I think would have been to drive boat up on to the beach to prevent her from sinking.

Let my ignorance be a lesson learned by others that are not familiar with the dripless shaft seals.

 

[ancora]

I'll stick with good old fashioned packing...easy to DIY service and little chance of catastrophic failure.

 

[Don L]

Wait till the day you show up boat and the 0SS bellows has cracked!

I finally got tired of the seals and replaced with a more expensive packing box. 5he 2 drops/min are not a problem to me

 

[nobles9596]

Had a stuffing box had it taken out and replaced with Dripless. At least with stuffing box you can repair that in the water.

 

[twistedtree]

You are supposed to use two stacked set screws to secure the stainless collar on the PSS seal. And the set screw bearing on the shaft is single use because it deforms when tightened. The second set screw bears down on the first and serves as a kind of lock nut. Many builders and service techs are unaware of the requirement for stacked set screws and the collar loosens and backs off over time.

 

[mvweebles]

Many builders and service techs are unaware of the requirement fore stacked set screws and the collar loosens and backs off over time.

Exactly what happened 20-years ago on a friend's Brewer 46 sailboat. The original installer did not install the second set of set screws.

Man, sure can let a lot of water in when it let's loose......hose clamp on shaft is never a bad idea.

Peter

 

[sunchaser]

Aside from proper maintenance, movement can be prevented by installing a zinc shaft collar in front of the PSS.

 

[twistedtree]

Also, do you have an automatic bilge pump, and was it running as expected? You mentioned turning one on, but is there also an automatic pump? If not, there should be.

 

[rslifkin]

Also, do you have an automatic bilge pump, and was it running as expected? You mentioned turning one on, but is there also an automatic pump? If not, there should be.

And if there is one, it sounds like it needs to be bigger, or there needs to be an additional one added.

 

[rgano]

A once-over in the ER before departure would likely have caught the problem. With a boat that lives in a lift when at home, I will need to remember to be good about that practice going forward any time when I have it moored afloat.

 

[Comodave]

Someone here has a tag line something like “something on your boat is breaking, you just don’t know it yet”. Absolutely true.

 

[CharlieO.]

I open my hatch and check my bilge every time I get to the boat. I check the bilge and both pumps and float switches when I leave the boat.

 

[Mako]

I installed a small drip pan under the glands which fed to the shower sump. Cost very few bucks and never had a single drop of water in the bilge.

 

[Hippocampus]

One of reasons I’ve grown to prefer Tides. Yes the o ring can fail but you can put several on the shaft and repair while in the water. Less risk of catastrophic failure. Still have had pss on several prior boats without mishaps. Beyond checking it periodically also need to check it’s actually getting water when running. No kink in the feed tube.

 

[rslifkin]

One of reasons I’ve grown to prefer Tides. Yes the o ring can fail but you can put several on the shaft and repair while in the water. Less risk of catastrophic failure. Still have had pss on several prior boats without mishaps. Beyond checking it periodically also need to check it’s actually getting water when running. No kink in the feed tube.

I agree, the Tides seal or a standard stuffing box is a better design. The PSS seals work well, but I don't like the number of ways they can have issues that require a haulout to fix. The Tides seal can be prepped with spare seals and swapped in the water. And a stuffing box can be re-packed in the water.

 

[jimdavi]

Properly maintained PSS seal is excellent, and not dependent on the shaft for sealing. Tides marine seal is a very thin seal, requiring a perfect shaft surface, as that’s what seals the boat from water. All types have their advantages and disadvantages; it’s just know that for each. I personally don’t want any water in the bilge and fine doing preventative maintenance, including 4 new set screws and a clamp just forward of the pss seal, not allowing it to slip forward and leak.

 

[Simi 60]

I'll stick with good old fashioned packing...easy to DIY service and little chance of catastrophic failure.

Yep

And

1 3500gph auto bilge pump is good
2 3500gph auto bilge pump is better
3 3500gph auto bilge pump, this one alarmed is better again and our standard.

All set at different heights

Plus 2 X 1850 gph 240v trash pumps installed and on standby - flick on powerpoint

 

[Art]

I'll stick with good old fashioned packing...easy to DIY service and little chance of catastrophic failure.

 

[Arc]

I would bet good money every premature failure of a PSS system was caused by the installation. The ring WILL NOT slip if installed as per instructions. You do not have to adjust anything year to year. You can get 1000’s of hours out of that system.

 

[North Baltic sea]

Hi,

sorry that you had a failure PPS seal.

Think that your installation was not done according to the instructions, the correct torque + security bolt was tightened.

I know about the 6-year recommendation, but I have checked the elasticity of the rubber and there are no visual problems.

The seal is from 2009 and I have driven about 18,000nm and I think the seal is still ok and the bilge is dry.

NBs

 

[Art]

I would bet good money every premature failure of a PSS system was caused by the installation. The ring WILL NOT slip if installed as per instructions. You do not have to adjust anything year to year. You can get 1000’s of hours out of that system.

"Every" is a big word... when applied to "1000's of hours out of that [or any] system" before "every premature failure" - "was caused by the installation".... can be affixed to anything.

How long does a PSS shaft seal last? - 6 years

General maintenance should be considering for a PSS Shaft Seal that is working perfectly well with no apparent issues. PYI recommends that the bellows be replaced once every 6 years on our PSS Type A seals and every 8 to 10 years on our PSS PRO and Type B Seals.

What is the best shaft seal?

The standout material of choice for a rotary shaft lip seal is polytetrafluoroethylene, also known as PTFE. This material is commonly used in seals because of its extremely low friction and resistance to wear and tear.

 

[ronobrien]

You are supposed to use two stacked set screws to secure the stainless collar on the PSS seal. And the set screw bearing on the shaft is single use because it deforms when tightened. The second set screw bears down on the first and serves as a kind of lock nut. Many builders and service techs are unaware of the requirement for stacked set screws and the collar loosens and backs off over time.

We were heading for Norfolk on my buddy's Island Packet and the "dripless" seal started dripping, badly. It had 2 set screws in each recces and somehow came loose. re positioned the collar and re tightened all the screws. Seems Ok so far.

 

[Comodave]

We were heading for Norfolk on my buddy's Island Packet and the "dripless" seal started dripping, badly. It had 2 set screws in each recces and somehow came loose. re positioned the collar and re tightened all the screws. Seems Ok so far.

You might check but I think that the set screws are a one time only so they should be replaced not retightened.

 

[Sleeping Bear]

I have the old stuffing boxes, but with PTFE packings in them. Probably a couple of drops a min, never heat, never adjust, this stuff is amazing.

 

[Delta Riverat]

Cool, thanks.

I need a repack and the teflon stuff will be used.

 

[Comodave]

We used Duramax in the traditional stuffing boxes in our last boat, no drips after initial breakin period.

 

[C lectric]

The Gortex GFO packing is also excellent. I repacked mine at least 10-15 yrs ago and have not had to do it again. Of course a biannual snug may be needed as even the best packings wear.

 

[grahamdouglass]

My only bilge pump story

I have a wet bilge with a traditional stuffing box.

I think it was 2016. I get to my boat, go down to my engine room and to my surprise the water is just about to go into my engine area, where any dripping oil goes and is separate from the bilge. My primary bilge pump, a Rule 750 gph was not pumping. The float switch, which was bought in 2008 was broken. My secondary bilge pump, a rule 3500 gph, set a couple of inches above my primary pump was accidentally set to manual. Why was it set to manual and for how long? Who knows, **** happens.

When I bought the replacement float switch, it failed. When I questioned the dealer that sold me the float switch he said, "Sometimes oil will cause the switch to malfunction." I queried that answer at another marine supplier and they said bullshit to that answer and to call Xylem directly. I did so with the purchase date and serial number. They responded and said that a bad batch of float switches had been made that year and to bring the email to the dealer I bought it from and to get a replacement float switch. Which I did.

My insurer said a lot of insurance claims for total loss of boat happen at the dock. I'm not too sure if there is a clause in your insurance that says your boat it has to be manually checked every number of months but I imagine there is.

 

[Comodave]

Some, maybe most, insurers require a plan for absentee owners that live X number of miles away from the boat. Like someone to physically check the boat periodically. If you live near the boat I haven’t heard of that happening.

 

[Don L]

I would bet good money every premature failure of a PSS system was caused by the installation. The ring WILL NOT slip if installed as per instructions. You do not have to adjust anything year to year. You can get 1000’s of hours out of that system.

You have never shown up to find that the bellows has cracked and spraying water into the boat I take it.