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Old 12-07-2023, 01:01 AM   #1
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Coronial Inquiry-Sinking of Eliza 1

These are the Findings of the 2023 Coronial Inquest held in NSW Australia into the sinking of a vessel built in China by Polymarine in or about 2012 bearing the brand "Halvorsen 42 Coastal Cruiser",and the death of a crew member.

https://coroners.nsw.gov.au/document...llan_Beeby.pdf

The Findings appear to be of narrow application, restricted to Eliza 1 and the related contemporary vessels sought to be identified by the Coroner. While there has been some publicity, TF may be an appropriate place for notification to a class of persons with potential interest.
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Old 12-07-2023, 03:31 AM   #2
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These are the Findings of the 2023 Coronial Inquest held in NSW Australia into the sinking of a vessel built in China by Polymarine in or about 2012 bearing the brand "Halvorsen 42 Coastal Cruiser",and the death of a crew member.

https://coroners.nsw.gov.au/document...llan_Beeby.pdf

The Findings appear to be of narrow application, restricted to Eliza 1 and the related contemporary vessels sought to be identified by the Coroner. While there has been some publicity, TF may be an appropriate place for notification to a class of persons with potential interest.
Thanks for bringing this to our attention Bruce. I thought the name Peta Emma sounded familiar and after doing a quick search, realised I had looked at it online only a few days ago.
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Old 12-07-2023, 03:35 AM   #3
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And a few things I was thinking at the time now make a lot more sense.
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Old 12-07-2023, 05:56 AM   #4
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I just read the whole report. Thanks for posting Bruce. It was very interesting.
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Old 12-07-2023, 06:30 AM   #5
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Very scary findings.
When you buy a boat you should be able to expect that the boat passed all certification tests and not that there are inherent problems with the design. Taking a boat out to sea means you need to be able to trust that the seaworthyness is as advertised (if the boat is in good condition).
It is also weird that a boat, that has been under litigation can be sold to someone else without disclosing the full extend of the litigation.

Thanks for posting this report, very interesting, but scary, read.
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Old 12-07-2023, 06:44 AM   #6
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Many rescues I have been on there was LOTS of water in the bilge before the owner ever suspected something wrong.

Sure people always say, "it happened so fast"... or "it wasn't that much".... but I have seen sluggishly boats rolling in a not very natural way and the owners were "just" aware of the issue.

Just a couple other things have to happen before free surface effect of that bilge water on some of our boats is all it would take.

Can't say it was an issue here but it seems to get overlooked a lot. Owners say everything was fine, but after a boat rolls over/sinks...who can say there was water in the bilge?

I am not sure how many production boats hit later models without some serious deviations from the original design whether it was certified or not. I know for sure it happens in commercial fishing boats in the USA.... way more than it should.

Even if not just design changes, sometimes it could be what owners do to their boats how they load them. Then even things like soggy decks (how many times does that topic come up on older boats?) that could affect stability occur?
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Old 12-07-2023, 07:20 AM   #7
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What is the relationship, if any, between these Halvorsens and Island Gypsies? Or is it just a coincidence that the company originally selling the boat was call "Island Gyspy Pty"? If they are the same, then Island Gypsy owners should take note too.


All of this highlights the value of a CE stability rating, just so you know what you have or are buying, and that it's appropriate for your needs. Their journey required a Class B boat, and this one didn't even come close. I'm not sure what class is would have achieved, but clearly something for inland, protected waters only.
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Old 12-07-2023, 07:28 AM   #8
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Many rescues I have been on there was LOTS of water in the bilge before the owner ever suspected something wrong.

Sure people always say, "it happened so fast"... or "it wasn't that much".... but I have seen sluggishly boats rolling in a not very natural way and the owners were "just" aware of the issue.

Just a couple other things have to happen before free surface effect of that bilge water on some of our boats is all it would take.

Can't say it was an issue here but it seems to get overlooked a lot. Owners say everything was fine, but after a boat rolls over/sinks...who can say there was water in the bilge?

I am not sure how many production boats hit later models without some serious deviations from the original design whether it was certified or not. I know for sure it happens in commercial fishing boats in the USA.... way more than it should.

Even if not just design changes, sometimes it could be what owners do to their boats how they load them. Then even things like soggy decks (how many times does that topic come up on older boats?) that could affect stability occur?

No doubt all those things can contribute. In this case, the report is pretty clear that the fundamental design has very limited stability, and definitely not enough for the journey they were on. Sadly, nobody knew this ahead of time. Other factors may have made it even worse, but the boat design was fundamentally unfit for that use.



The report looked specifically at the contribution of soggy decks and concluded that it would not have a material effect were the stability sufficient in the first place.
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Old 12-07-2023, 08:24 AM   #9
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No doubt all those things can contribute. In this case, the report is pretty clear that the fundamental design has very limited stability, and definitely not enough for the journey they were on. Sadly, nobody knew this ahead of time. Other factors may have made it even worse, but the boat design was fundamentally unfit for that use.



The report looked specifically at the contribution of soggy decks and concluded that it would not have a material effect were the stability sufficient in the first place.
Yes, certifications sure can be useful... if not exactly absolute.

But how many Taiwan Trawler owners here know of the current, let alone original stability of their vessel and then turn around and report here to newbies how "seaworthy" their vessels are?

Based on the pics in the report, I bet too many here would say "nice boat", "seaworthy" based on its looks versus some with much better stability numbers that are called "top heavy", "unsafe for open waters"......
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Old 12-07-2023, 09:39 AM   #10
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Thats some report! Glad our boat has a fairly low profile. Venture seems well built but you never know
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Old 12-07-2023, 09:46 AM   #11
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Yes, certifications sure can be useful... if not exactly absolute.

But how many Taiwan Trawler owners here know of the current, let alone original stability of their vessel and then turn around and report here to newbies how "seaworthy" their vessels are?

Based on the pics in the report, I bet too many here would say "nice boat", "seaworthy" based on its looks versus some with much better stability numbers that are called "top heavy", "unsafe for open waters"......
A few years ago I was playing with the idea of adding a bunch of solar panels in the spot where the bimini top now is. On advise of some of you here I contacted the yard in Taiwan and they clearly stated not to do that, since it would heavily affect the stability of the boat. So we did not proceed with that plan, placed them much lower, which was OK for the yard.
Am happy I did not proceed with the plan, but am bewildered to see other Defever 49's with a hard top instead of a bimini, which makes me wonder: 'was that done by the yard or is this a self install ?'

Our boat loves to rock and roll on the water and because of that we decided to install stabilizers. Now the rocking and rolling is over, but it does make me wonder what the off factory stability of a Defever 49 is ?
So will contact the yard again and ask them for the test results, curious if they are going to give that to me.
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Old 12-07-2023, 10:10 AM   #12
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A few years ago I was playing with the idea of adding a bunch of solar panels in the spot where the bimini top now is. On advise of some of you here I contacted the yard in Taiwan and they clearly stated not to do that, since it would heavily affect the stability of the boat. So we did not proceed with that plan, placed them much lower, which was OK for the yard.
Am happy I did not proceed with the plan, but am bewildered to see other Defever 49's with a hard top instead of a bimini, which makes me wonder: 'was that done by the yard or is this a self install ?'

Our boat loves to rock and roll on the water and because of that we decided to install stabilizers. Now the rocking and rolling is over, but it does make me wonder what the off factory stability of a Defever 49 is ?
So will contact the yard again and ask them for the test results, curious if they are going to give that to me.

Adding stuff up high would definitely have an effect on stability, possibly beyond what was assumed in the original calculations, tests, etc. But that doesn't necessarily mean the resulting stability afterward is going to be problematic, just that it's not going to meet the original design intent. And in some cases, adding appropriately placed ballast (possibly in the form of more batteries) may be able to offset the addition and keep everything in a safe and happy state.
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Old 12-07-2023, 12:22 PM   #13
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Adding stuff up high would definitely have an effect on stability, possibly beyond what was assumed in the original calculations, tests, etc. But that doesn't necessarily mean the resulting stability afterward is going to be problematic, just that it's not going to meet the original design intent. And in some cases, adding appropriately placed ballast (possibly in the form of more batteries) may be able to offset the addition and keep everything in a safe and happy state.
One also should consider the impact to stability when lead acid batteries are replaces with lighter LiFePo batteries. Use LifePo, add a bunch of solar panels up high....

Later,
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Old 12-07-2023, 12:30 PM   #14
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One also should consider the impact to stability when lead acid batteries are replaces with lighter LiFePo batteries. Use LifePo, add a bunch of solar panels up high....

Later,
Dan

Good point. A reduction in battery weight can also be an issue unless the batteries being replaced were already significantly heavier than the original design expected.
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Old 12-07-2023, 01:00 PM   #15
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Depending on boat dimensions, weight may be less critical than where it is placed....especially live weights.
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Old 12-07-2023, 01:28 PM   #16
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Depending on boat dimensions, weight may be less critical than where it is placed....especially live weights.
Yep. I was watching new report on an area of Ireland and part of the report was about the local sailing and sailing club. The report was from the 40-50 years ago so it really was a history report than a news report.

The sailing club went out on their small sailing boats while the news crew went out on what I would guess was the largest boat, about 25 feet. The seas were not high but confused, I suspect because of the tide and coast line. The reporter started by saying if your TV is green, it does not need to be adjusted, it is me feeling sea sick. She did puke over the side eventually.

I think what got her was the pitching of the boat vs rolling. The boat was rolling a bit but pitching looked to be far worse. They had 6 people in the cockpit on a small boat. All of the live weight in the stern was not good.

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Old 12-07-2023, 01:29 PM   #17
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Has anyone hired someone to do a stability test? I don't think they are very difficult to do, provided the person doing it is also equipped to run the numbers afterwards. I think most of us just assume it's OK.
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Old 12-07-2023, 01:40 PM   #18
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Has anyone hired someone to do a stability test? I don't think they are very difficult to do, provided the person doing it is also equipped to run the numbers afterwards. I think most of us just assume it's OK.
I have looked into all the DIY stuff and the stuff the USCG does for commercial vessels in determining stability.

The interesting discussion on stability here occurred a month or two or more back when the discussion on roll tanks was picked apart.

Some good stuff and some not so good stuff as usual.

As a guy who spent a bit of time in ice country, the old timers worried about ice accretion and stability always seemed to count on the hang time rule of thumb. when the boat rolled, at a point of increasingly bad stability from ice, the boat would roll a bit farther, then instead of recovering right away, it would start to hang on the roll, longer and longer.

From all the DIY stability tests I have read about, roll timing is a big part. Somehow, they describe rapidly adding weight to one side of the vessel and measuring the list and speed at which it occurs. From that there is a rough calculation of metacentric height (IIRC) and from there some basic stability numbers can be crunched.

I thought about doing one for my boat but never got to the point where going bluish water was on th horizon so I never got around to it.
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Old 12-07-2023, 03:00 PM   #19
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Greetings,
Seems to me the seller, after being advised the boat "wasn't worth fixing", had a lot of gall to sell it for $199K. I suppose that particular report wasn't made available to the buyer. I wonder of the seller has any remorse?
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Old 12-07-2023, 04:00 PM   #20
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During my initial inspection of my boat I did a roll test on it at the dock.. With loose lines get it rolling by a few people stepping on the rail in unison. Once rolling time the roll in seconds from all the way down on your side to all the way down on your side again without anyone helping the roll. That is to say. You are trimming one complete roll over and back.
If the roll in seconds is equal to the boat beam at the waterline in meters the boat has comfortable satibility. If the time in seconds is less than the beam in meters then the boat is very stable but it might be too stable and have a quick roll that tends to throw things around in the boat including people. It the time is greater than the waterline beam in meters than the boat is tender and stability might be an issue under some conditions.
On my boat the time was less than the beam and a bit snappy but did not have weight in the flying bridge and a bit less than half load of fuel low in the boat. I figured I would adjust loads later. I have had it roll to 25-30 degrees in a beam mega boat wake.
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