Coronial Inquiry-Sinking of Eliza 1

[BruceK]

These are the Findings of the 2023 Coronial Inquest held in NSW Australia into the sinking of a vessel built in China by Polymarine in or about 2012 bearing the brand "Halvorsen 42 Coastal Cruiser",and the death of a crew member.

https://coroners.nsw.gov.au/documents/findings/2023/Inquest_into_the_death_of_Allan_Beeby.pdf

The Findings appear to be of narrow application, restricted to Eliza 1 and the related contemporary vessels sought to be identified by the Coroner. While there has been some publicity, TF may be an appropriate place for notification to a class of persons with potential interest.

 

[Serene]

These are the Findings of the 2023 Coronial Inquest held in NSW Australia into the sinking of a vessel built in China by Polymarine in or about 2012 bearing the brand "Halvorsen 42 Coastal Cruiser",and the death of a crew member.

https://coroners.nsw.gov.au/documents/findings/2023/Inquest_into_the_death_of_Allan_Beeby.pdf

The Findings appear to be of narrow application, restricted to Eliza 1 and the related contemporary vessels sought to be identified by the Coroner. While there has been some publicity, TF may be an appropriate place for notification to a class of persons with potential interest.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention Bruce. I thought the name Peta Emma sounded familiar and after doing a quick search, realised I had looked at it online only a few days ago.

 

[Serene]

And a few things I was thinking at the time now make a lot more sense.

 

[Serene]

I just read the whole report. Thanks for posting Bruce. It was very interesting.

 

[Mambo42]

Very scary findings.
When you buy a boat you should be able to expect that the boat passed all certification tests and not that there are inherent problems with the design. Taking a boat out to sea means you need to be able to trust that the seaworthyness is as advertised (if the boat is in good condition).
It is also weird that a boat, that has been under litigation can be sold to someone else without disclosing the full extend of the litigation.

Thanks for posting this report, very interesting, but scary, read.

 

[psneeld]

Many rescues I have been on there was LOTS of water in the bilge before the owner ever suspected something wrong.

Sure people always say, "it happened so fast"... or "it wasn't that much".... but I have seen sluggishly boats rolling in a not very natural way and the owners were "just" aware of the issue.

Just a couple other things have to happen before free surface effect of that bilge water on some of our boats is all it would take.

Can't say it was an issue here but it seems to get overlooked a lot. Owners say everything was fine, but after a boat rolls over/sinks...who can say there was water in the bilge?

I am not sure how many production boats hit later models without some serious deviations from the original design whether it was certified or not. I know for sure it happens in commercial fishing boats in the USA.... way more than it should.

Even if not just design changes, sometimes it could be what owners do to their boats how they load them. Then even things like soggy decks (how many times does that topic come up on older boats?) that could affect stability occur?

 

[twistedtree]

What is the relationship, if any, between these Halvorsens and Island Gypsies? Or is it just a coincidence that the company originally selling the boat was call "Island Gyspy Pty"? If they are the same, then Island Gypsy owners should take note too.


All of this highlights the value of a CE stability rating, just so you know what you have or are buying, and that it's appropriate for your needs. Their journey required a Class B boat, and this one didn't even come close. I'm not sure what class is would have achieved, but clearly something for inland, protected waters only.

 

[twistedtree]

Many rescues I have been on there was LOTS of water in the bilge before the owner ever suspected something wrong.

Sure people always say, "it happened so fast"... or "it wasn't that much".... but I have seen sluggishly boats rolling in a not very natural way and the owners were "just" aware of the issue.

Just a couple other things have to happen before free surface effect of that bilge water on some of our boats is all it would take.

Can't say it was an issue here but it seems to get overlooked a lot. Owners say everything was fine, but after a boat rolls over/sinks...who can say there was water in the bilge?

I am not sure how many production boats hit later models without some serious deviations from the original design whether it was certified or not. I know for sure it happens in commercial fishing boats in the USA.... way more than it should.

Even if not just design changes, sometimes it could be what owners do to their boats how they load them. Then even things like soggy decks (how many times does that topic come up on older boats?) that could affect stability occur?

No doubt all those things can contribute. In this case, the report is pretty clear that the fundamental design has very limited stability, and definitely not enough for the journey they were on. Sadly, nobody knew this ahead of time. Other factors may have made it even worse, but the boat design was fundamentally unfit for that use.



The report looked specifically at the contribution of soggy decks and concluded that it would not have a material effect were the stability sufficient in the first place.

 

[psneeld]

No doubt all those things can contribute. In this case, the report is pretty clear that the fundamental design has very limited stability, and definitely not enough for the journey they were on. Sadly, nobody knew this ahead of time. Other factors may have made it even worse, but the boat design was fundamentally unfit for that use.



The report looked specifically at the contribution of soggy decks and concluded that it would not have a material effect were the stability sufficient in the first place.

Yes, certifications sure can be useful... if not exactly absolute.

But how many Taiwan Trawler owners here know of the current, let alone original stability of their vessel and then turn around and report here to newbies how "seaworthy" their vessels are?

Based on the pics in the report, I bet too many here would say "nice boat", "seaworthy" based on its looks versus some with much better stability numbers that are called "top heavy", "unsafe for open waters"......

 

[JohnP]

Thats some report! Glad our boat has a fairly low profile. Venture seems well built but you never know

 

[Mambo42]

Yes, certifications sure can be useful... if not exactly absolute.

But how many Taiwan Trawler owners here know of the current, let alone original stability of their vessel and then turn around and report here to newbies how "seaworthy" their vessels are?

Based on the pics in the report, I bet too many here would say "nice boat", "seaworthy" based on its looks versus some with much better stability numbers that are called "top heavy", "unsafe for open waters"......

A few years ago I was playing with the idea of adding a bunch of solar panels in the spot where the bimini top now is. On advise of some of you here I contacted the yard in Taiwan and they clearly stated not to do that, since it would heavily affect the stability of the boat. So we did not proceed with that plan, placed them much lower, which was OK for the yard.
Am happy I did not proceed with the plan, but am bewildered to see other Defever 49's with a hard top instead of a bimini, which makes me wonder: 'was that done by the yard or is this a self install ?'

Our boat loves to rock and roll on the water and because of that we decided to install stabilizers. Now the rocking and rolling is over, but it does make me wonder what the off factory stability of a Defever 49 is ?
So will contact the yard again and ask them for the test results, curious if they are going to give that to me.

 

[rslifkin]

A few years ago I was playing with the idea of adding a bunch of solar panels in the spot where the bimini top now is. On advise of some of you here I contacted the yard in Taiwan and they clearly stated not to do that, since it would heavily affect the stability of the boat. So we did not proceed with that plan, placed them much lower, which was OK for the yard.
Am happy I did not proceed with the plan, but am bewildered to see other Defever 49's with a hard top instead of a bimini, which makes me wonder: 'was that done by the yard or is this a self install ?'

Our boat loves to rock and roll on the water and because of that we decided to install stabilizers. Now the rocking and rolling is over, but it does make me wonder what the off factory stability of a Defever 49 is ?
So will contact the yard again and ask them for the test results, curious if they are going to give that to me.

Adding stuff up high would definitely have an effect on stability, possibly beyond what was assumed in the original calculations, tests, etc. But that doesn't necessarily mean the resulting stability afterward is going to be problematic, just that it's not going to meet the original design intent. And in some cases, adding appropriately placed ballast (possibly in the form of more batteries) may be able to offset the addition and keep everything in a safe and happy state.

 

[dannc]

Adding stuff up high would definitely have an effect on stability, possibly beyond what was assumed in the original calculations, tests, etc. But that doesn't necessarily mean the resulting stability afterward is going to be problematic, just that it's not going to meet the original design intent. And in some cases, adding appropriately placed ballast (possibly in the form of more batteries) may be able to offset the addition and keep everything in a safe and happy state.

One also should consider the impact to stability when lead acid batteries are replaces with lighter LiFePo batteries. Use LifePo, add a bunch of solar panels up high....

Later,
Dan

 

[rslifkin]

One also should consider the impact to stability when lead acid batteries are replaces with lighter LiFePo batteries. Use LifePo, add a bunch of solar panels up high....

Later,
Dan

Good point. A reduction in battery weight can also be an issue unless the batteries being replaced were already significantly heavier than the original design expected.

 

[psneeld]

Depending on boat dimensions, weight may be less critical than where it is placed....especially live weights.

 

[dannc]

Depending on boat dimensions, weight may be less critical than where it is placed....especially live weights.

Yep. I was watching new report on an area of Ireland and part of the report was about the local sailing and sailing club. The report was from the 40-50 years ago so it really was a history report than a news report.

The sailing club went out on their small sailing boats while the news crew went out on what I would guess was the largest boat, about 25 feet. The seas were not high but confused, I suspect because of the tide and coast line. The reporter started by saying if your TV is green, it does not need to be adjusted, it is me feeling sea sick. She did puke over the side eventually.

I think what got her was the pitching of the boat vs rolling. The boat was rolling a bit but pitching looked to be far worse. They had 6 people in the cockpit on a small boat. All of the live weight in the stern was not good.

Later,
Dan

 

[twistedtree]

Has anyone hired someone to do a stability test? I don't think they are very difficult to do, provided the person doing it is also equipped to run the numbers afterwards. I think most of us just assume it's OK.

 

[psneeld]

Has anyone hired someone to do a stability test? I don't think they are very difficult to do, provided the person doing it is also equipped to run the numbers afterwards. I think most of us just assume it's OK.

I have looked into all the DIY stuff and the stuff the USCG does for commercial vessels in determining stability.

The interesting discussion on stability here occurred a month or two or more back when the discussion on roll tanks was picked apart.

Some good stuff and some not so good stuff as usual.

As a guy who spent a bit of time in ice country, the old timers worried about ice accretion and stability always seemed to count on the hang time rule of thumb. when the boat rolled, at a point of increasingly bad stability from ice, the boat would roll a bit farther, then instead of recovering right away, it would start to hang on the roll, longer and longer.

From all the DIY stability tests I have read about, roll timing is a big part. Somehow, they describe rapidly adding weight to one side of the vessel and measuring the list and speed at which it occurs. From that there is a rough calculation of metacentric height (IIRC) and from there some basic stability numbers can be crunched.

I thought about doing one for my boat but never got to the point where going bluish water was on th horizon so I never got around to it.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Seems to me the seller, after being advised the boat "wasn't worth fixing", had a lot of gall to sell it for $199K. I suppose that particular report wasn't made available to the buyer. I wonder of the seller has any remorse?

 

[PierreR]

During my initial inspection of my boat I did a roll test on it at the dock.. With loose lines get it rolling by a few people stepping on the rail in unison. Once rolling time the roll in seconds from all the way down on your side to all the way down on your side again without anyone helping the roll. That is to say. You are trimming one complete roll over and back.
If the roll in seconds is equal to the boat beam at the waterline in meters the boat has comfortable satibility. If the time in seconds is less than the beam in meters then the boat is very stable but it might be too stable and have a quick roll that tends to throw things around in the boat including people. It the time is greater than the waterline beam in meters than the boat is tender and stability might be an issue under some conditions.
On my boat the time was less than the beam and a bit snappy but did not have weight in the flying bridge and a bit less than half load of fuel low in the boat. I figured I would adjust loads later. I have had it roll to 25-30 degrees in a beam mega boat wake.

 

[Mambo42]

Greetings,
Seems to me the seller, after being advised the boat "wasn't worth fixing", had a lot of gall to sell it for $199K. I suppose that particular report wasn't made available to the buyer. I wonder of the seller has any remorse?

How often have you met a broker or seller who is 100 % honest in explaining what is wrong with the boat ?
A little while ago I found this Fleming 55 in the Netherlands, for a very good price. Nowhere did it say that the boat had actually sunk twice in a hurricane, that it had been salvaged and restored. Nowhere did it say it had lost it's seaworthyness certification due to not registering all the repairs.
It was only after a long search, with the help of many here on the forum, that I was able to figure out what had happened to the boat and that it was better to leave it for what it was.
And DeValk is quite a well known broker, but they simply said: 'we don't know' and the owner kept his mouth shut. So I guess, it happens apparently quite a lot.

 

[kthoennes]

Huh. I've worked in (American/US) courts my entire career and didn't know "coronial" was a word. Apparently in regular use in New Zealand and Aus, but rarely elsewhere. Learn something every day on this forum.

 

[Insequent]

Thanks for posting the report Bruce. I was curious about the dimensions of the boat and found the advert below for a Halvorsen 42 that the broker then describes as 44'. With a hardtop and stuff on the mast it will be more top heavy than Eliza 1. Good luck to the new owners....

https://yachthub.com/list/boats-for...alvorsen-42-pilothouse-coastal-cruiser/304197

I noted that the beam is 12'. That's pretty skinny IMO. And also that the draft is 13' - it must have quite a keel compared to Eliza 1. Brokers........

I do not have any stability info for my OA 50 Mk 1. It is 50' in length, but has a beam of 15.5'. The extra 3.5' of beam compared to Eliza 1 gives me some comfort that I don't own a "beach ball", but I do have a custom hardtop with 6 large solar panels, and a 14" RIB on the boat deck. The boat has always seemed to me to be quite stable. Having said that I am contemplating getting an inclining test carried out and some calculations on stability around the time of next haulout. I take some comfort also in the fact that a sistership, Blue Eyes II, was put into charter in Sydney and was able to meet commercial survey requirements. Still, the Eliza 1 report gives me pause for thought.

When I say my boat is stable, I did add Naiad active fins to stop roll underway. Prior to that, a table in the salon and the helm chair could, and did, fall over at times as a result of rolling. And more recently I added flopper stoppers to reduce roll at anchor, once again roll was occasionally enough for the items noted above to fall over. So I do think getting some actual measurements is prudent. If I need to add ballast, then I will.

 

[Delta Riverat]

Yeah, saw that one too. Only half a mill.

I read the article because well you know...

When I board my Gypsy it doesn't move much. Beam is 15 feet. 41,000 pounds in the slings. Not going to worry.

 

[Serene]

Thanks for posting the report Bruce. I was curious about the dimensions of the boat and found the advert below for a Halvorsen 42 that the broker then describes as 44'. With a hardtop and stuff on the mast it will be more top heavy than Eliza 1. Good luck to the new owners....

https://yachthub.com/list/boats-for...alvorsen-42-pilothouse-coastal-cruiser/304197

I noted that the beam is 12'. That's pretty skinny IMO. And also that the draft is 13' - it must have quite a keel compared to Eliza 1. Brokers........

[SNIP]

Yes it looks like that is the Peta Emma mentioned in the report and shown in the photo washed up on the beach.

 

[AlaskaProf]

Huh. I've worked in (American/US) courts my entire career and didn't know "coronial" was a word. Apparently in regular use in New Zealand and Aus, but rarely elsewhere. Learn something every day on this forum.

Caught me by surprise also.




coronial in British English​​ (kəˈrəʊnɪəl ) adjective. of or relating to a coroner. Collins English Dictionary. Copyright © HarperCollins Publishers.

 

[Serene]

Huh. I've worked in (American/US) courts my entire career and didn't know "coronial" was a word. Apparently in regular use in New Zealand and Aus, but rarely elsewhere. Learn something every day on this forum.

Yes they happen quite often here and are a good way to do a sort of 'lessons learned' approach to try and stop the same from happening again.

 

[rslifkin]

Yeah, saw that one too. Only half a mill.

I read the article because well you know...

When I board my Gypsy it doesn't move much. Beam is 15 feet. 41,000 pounds in the slings. Not going to worry.

Initial stability and ultimate stability aren't necessarily the same. My boat is pretty tender for the first few degrees of roll and moves a surprising amount when stepping on and off. But while I haven't done any formal testing, it's got a roll period slightly shorter than the waterline beam in meters and it stiffens up dramatically after a few degrees of roll (almost unpleasantly so) and it takes quite a bit to roll it to a concerning extent.

I'd definitely be interested to know what can be done for DIY stability assessments. I've added some weight up high as solar panels, plan to add a hard top, my davits sit fairly high, etc. That said I do have more weight in batteries than the original configuration (and they're low and centered).

Changes in dynamic weight from departure to arrival are definitely interesting to look at. When the water tank is full enough I've got more added ballast than the original setup (holds about 40 gallons more water and the water is carried slightly lower in the hull, entire tank is below waterline). But that also means the full vs empty difference is bigger than the original design. I've always kept in the back of my mind that in heavy seas I should consider ballasting with the holding tank (also located entirely below the waterline) especially if filling the water tank before departure isn't an option.

 

[Serene]

[SNIP]

Changes in dynamic weight from departure to arrival are definitely interesting to look at. When the water tank is full enough I've got more added ballast than the original setup (holds about 40 gallons more water and the water is carried slightly lower in the hull, entire tank is below waterline). But that also means the full vs empty difference is bigger than the original design. I've always kept in the back of my mind that in heavy seas I should consider ballasting with the holding tank (also located entirely below the waterline) especially if filling the water tank before departure isn't an option.

With respect to dynamic weight, the report even talked about the interconnected fuel tanks (valve being open vs closed) on each side of the vessel, with ability for the free flow of fuel from the high side to the low side when the vessel rolls.

This is not something I had thought about.

 

[AlaskaProf]

Yes they happen quite often here and are a good way to do a sort of 'lessons learned' approach to try and stop the same from happening again.

Also common in American courts, where they are called: "inquests". I think Karl's point is that despite our shared origins in English Common Law, the language has diverged.