Weird marina policies

[Mambo42]

As some of you may already know I am in Turkey, dealing with a company that has destroyed both my steering pumps and then stuck up their middle finger.

Going over the small print of the marina I found some more weird articles and would like your opinion about that, if possible. Is this the same in the US, is this industry wide or is this just an exemption ?

1. The boat lift is operated by the marina, you are not allowed to be near the boat when the boat is in the slings, you can also not place the supports below the boat, nor are you allowed to move them. However, if the boat falls out of the lift of the wind blows it off it's supports...........the marina is not responsible, you are !
In other words, the marina won't pay anything, they actually say that their insurance does not cover the damage.

2. The marina is not responsible for any theft anywhere in the marina. The security is only in the marina in an advisory role. So again, if anything gets stolen you can pay for it yourself.

3. The maintenance companies in the marina are not required to be insured against damage they cause to the boats. The marina will also not inform the owners that companies are not insured.

4. Even though the marina accepts no responsibility for the boat lift they claim they have the right to move your boat wherever and whenever they want........on your cost. On top of that you have to be present or otherwise appoint someone to supervise the lift, but again, the marina is not repsonsible for damage.

Do you have the same regulations in the US or is this just something we have here in this marina ?

 

[mvweebles]

Marina I'm in Ensenada MX just issued some strict rules. Most interesting is you are obligated to have your bottom cleaned regularly, monthly. Coincidentally (not!!), the marina manager is married to Jesus, the diver who cleans most of the bottoms in the marina.

It's their house, their rules.

Peter

 

[SeaDogAK]

Just because they say they’re not responsible for something doesn’t mean they’re not legally responsible. That’s determined by the law, not by their pronouncements.

 

[Chuck34]

Just because they say they’re not responsible for something doesn’t mean they’re not legally responsible. That’s determined by the law, not by their pronouncements.

And we have absolutely no idea what the laws are like in Turkey. For all we know, the small print may be perfectly legal.

 

[Delta Riverat]

Put a Turkish attorney on retainer. Ask them.

If legal...move or stay, your choice.

 

[twistedtree]

I think the trend for marinas is to absolve themselves of all responsibility and liability. And I think with more and more corporate-owned marinas, it will only increase.

 

[Mambo42]

Put a Turkish attorney on retainer. Ask them.

If legal...move or stay, your choice.

I have given the marina regulations to my lawyer for review, but the more disturbing point is that many marinas in the Med are now being bought up by investment firms.
They buy the marinas, instantly raise the mooring fees with 30 - 40 % and come up with bylaws that basically state they are not responsible for anything.
Problem is that e.g. here in Turkey there are not a lot of marinas left that don't belong to an investment group or corporation. In other words 'where can you go with your boat'.
The boat lift here in Didim is the only one in this area. Next one is a day sailing from here.

In all I cannot say it is a good development in the Med and am wondering how long this can go on like this. The investment groups and corporations think owners have nowhere elso to go, but since anchoring out for the winter time is still legal in many countries I think we will see a trend towards boats moving away from marinas that work with this policy.
Once our boat is fixed we will leave Turkey and probably never come back anymore. Next year we will be in Croatia where luckily we still find some marinas that are owned by a small company. Question is for how long ?

 

[Shrew]

To be honest, much of this is inline with the contracts I have for storage here in the US (New England). Hauling, blocking and storage is MY insurance, not theirs. However, I suspect my insurance company would be doing due diligence to verify negligence wasn't at play and would likely take action if negligence was found.

The only exception is #3. EVERYWHERE I have been requires outside vendors be licensed and usually require a copy filed with the marina office.

 

[twistedtree]

Any attorney asked to draw up a marina agreement will make it as lopsided as the law allows. That’s their job.

 

[Chuck34]

The only exception is #3. EVERYWHERE I have been requires outside vendors be licensed and usually require a copy filed with the marina office.

Again, the OP is in Turkey, not the US. They play by different rules in that part of the world.

 

[Shrew]

Again, the OP is in Turkey, not the US. They play by different rules in that part of the world.

I'm hardly attempting to impose some amero-centric expectation from here to over there. I'm only qualifying the one difference I've experienced. After all, the scope of the thread is "How Bizarre" and I only really see one, very slight difference.

I can clearly recognize that laws, rights, customs and cultures will all very from place to place.

 

[Brooksie]

I'm hardly attempting to impose some amero-centric expectation from here to over there. I'm only qualifying the one difference I've experienced. After all, the scope of the thread is "How Bizarre" and I only really see one, very slight difference.

I can clearly recognize that laws, rights, customs and cultures will all very from place to place.

I agree, not very different than what US boatyards try to do. Turkey is for Turkey's anyway...

 

[OldDan1943]

Don’t get me started on a constructive loss of my N46

 

[Mambo42]

I agree, not very different than what US boatyards try to do. Turkey is for Turkey's anyway...

I read: 'what US boatyards try to do'. Does that mean they are trying something that is outside the law ?
My lawyer here in Turkey is looking into it as well. Hope I will get a reply from him next week.

There are several things that bother me in these regulations.

1. I am not allowed to lift out the boat myself, that is only the job of the marina, but if the boat falls out of the boat lift.........the marina is not insured. They actually state that loud and clear they have no insurance. In the boat lift we regularly see 50 million euro boats (or more). I wonder how those owners would react if the marina tells them they are not responsible for a job that only the marina is allowed to do ?

2. Same for the maintenance companies. They have no assets, they rent space, but if they cause a fire on a 50 million USD yacht......the owner can pay for it ? The maintenance company will declare bankruptcy, so there is nothing the owner will get from them. The fact that the marina accepts this and does not even warn the owners............I think I can call that criminal negligence.

3. As for security same deal. Officially I am not allowed to stay onboard while the boat is in the yard, but after reading the article the marina is not responsible for theft I simply told them: 'I will be staying onboard and so is my security detail (my dogs)'. They protested once, but then realized their own regulations are now being used against them, they are not happy. Good part is that by now the whole marina knows I have 4 very aggressive dogs on the boat, they don't even dare to come close. At least it stops theft, which has happened here quite often.

But in all, I cannot say that this is the way forward in the maritime industry. It almost looks like a war: boat owners against marina owners and it is all about money. I don't know about the States, but here in the Med you can basically tie up to the shore wherever you are. Drop your anchor, land line to the shore and you are legal. I have seen lots of boats doing that during the winter, not what I want to do, but if it does not make a difference in liability for damage ............why would I pay a marina ?
In all I think the marinas are on the wrong track here. It is a short term business idea, but will back fire massively in the end. Owners are getting more vocal and won't accept prices are being raised by 30 % each year and service is going down at roughly the same rate.

I had hopes the US would be better, but now I understand it is just as bad. Perhaps it is time marinas are being run by owners instead of investment firms.

 

[psneeld]

As some of you may already know I am in Turkey, dealing with a company that has destroyed both my steering pumps and then stuck up their middle finger.

Going over the small print of the marina I found some more weird articles and would like your opinion about that, if possible. Is this the same in the US, is this industry wide or is this just an exemption ?

1. The boat lift is operated by the marina, you are not allowed to be near the boat when the boat is in the slings, you can also not place the supports below the boat, nor are you allowed to move them. However, if the boat falls out of the lift of the wind blows it off it's supports...........the marina is not responsible, you are !
In other words, the marina won't pay anything, they actually say that their insurance does not cover the damage.

2. The marina is not responsible for any theft anywhere in the marina. The security is only in the marina in an advisory role. So again, if anything gets stolen you can pay for it yourself.

3. The maintenance companies in the marina are not required to be insured against damage they cause to the boats. The marina will also not inform the owners that companies are not insured.

4. Even though the marina accepts no responsibility for the boat lift they claim they have the right to move your boat wherever and whenever they want........on your cost. On top of that you have to be present or otherwise appoint someone to supervise the lift, but again, the marina is not repsonsible for damage.

Do you have the same regulations in the US or is this just something we have here in this marina ?

The wording isn't exactly the same but several of the marinas I am familiar with in the US that I stayed in for more than a transient have very similar rules and some even more restrictive/strange and seemingly out of touch with common sense...but as far as liability issues, yep...those seem familiar to me.

 

[OldDan1943]

You can get a rider on your policy that covers damage in the yard.
Quiz your insurance company.
Keep us all informed please.

 

[Mambo42]

You can get a rider on your policy that covers damage in the yard.
Quiz your insurance company.
Keep us all informed please.

Will give them a call on Monday, will let you know what their answer is.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

I don't think owning or operating a marina is the gravy train it might have been 20 or more years ago. They are all struggling to survive.

Extra charges for more power usage, surcharge for fresh water, the goofy midnight rule (getting two days transient fees for basically one day), the list goes on. Fortunately I have not run into pay toilets yet .

An older "new policy" which still bugs me is the dock length rule. I pull into a marina for a transient night. I am 36 feet long, they tell me I need a 40 foot dock and charge accordingly.

Nobody said it was inexpensive to own a boat.

pete

 

[DDW]

I think they are saying they are not your insurer, you are. This isn't much different in the US, if your boat is stolen or burns in a marina, your insurance will be primary. On the other hand, a principle of most US tort law is that negligence is an actionable tort, and cannot be signed away in advance. In the US, if you can prove that the lift was operated negligently resulting in a loss, you can sue them even if you signed a waiver prior to the lift. Whether you can recover anything is a separate question. I've no idea what happens in Turkey.

 

[seaker236]

I think the trend for marinas is to absolve themselves of all responsibility and liability. And I think with more and more corporate-owned marinas, it will only increase.

I think the trend for all of the corporate world is to absolve themselves of all responsibility and liability.

 

[Insequent]

I hauled out in Australia about a month ago. Saw all the same kind of rules discussed above now imposed, most of which were not in their contract 2 years ago. The marina brought in a Safety person, and other new management who reviewed everything that they do, tightened stuff up and increased charges by quite a bit. Same marina owners though.

I signed the contract anyway, knowing that if they were negligent then my insurer would go after them regardless of what they tried to put waivers on. You always want to g=be ther, camera at the ready. If you've hauled a few times you know how its supposed to go and can say something (nicely) if they are taking short cuts or risks.

 

[Simi 60]

Probably the same in Oz
That'd explain why you can't get into most marinas or yards without insurance
And I have seen at least one travellift with the "all care but no responsibility" sign on it with a "it's the owners responsibility to ensure slings are placed in the correct position"