Chain hook

[HeadedToTexas]

See attachment below[/ATTACH]

Nice set up, Dave. Why the whipping on the sides of the larger eye?

 

[Parvey]

Just a simple chain hook like you'd find on trucks' chain binders works great. Simple, cheap and available in stainless steel.

Yup, a chain hook. KISS.

—Jim

 

[Bryant]

A follow up to the bridle thread. But, I’d like to know your fav chain hook. This will be used with a V bridle, which is 2x 3/4” 3strand currently. On a cat, so well beyond the early decisions of whether or not to use a bridle.

The PO had rigged a stainless snap latch that fits inside and between links. Nooo.

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I use a Mantus bridle, Mantus chain hook on a snubber and a Mantus swivel on my Mantus anchor. I have almost no hunting, there is no anchor chain grinding on the bow pulpit channel and roller and all stress is removed from the windless. I highly recommend this setup.

 

[twistedtree]

I think it may not be clear what a soft shackle is. It's not just a loop of dynema. One end is a choker loop, and the other end is a knot like a monkey fist. You to close the shackle, you feed the knot through the loop and choke it closed. To remove, you unchoke the loop and pull the knot out.


Attaching a snubber to a chain is just a matter of feeding the shackle loop end through a link in the chain, then through the spliced loop on the end of the snubber. Then close the shackle.

 

[firehoser75]

Twisted,
Does that "shackle" ever come off (fall off) if the whole system goes slack, as in dead calm conditions? I have never used that type, nor seen it first hand.

 

[psneeld]

Not as easy as the chain hook that I used to use that would fall off a lot when it hit bottom.

 

[mickand]

+1 for the Mantus bridle. Been using mine for years with the plastic retainer missing - not required.

 

[Simi 60]

Twisted,
Does that "shackle" ever come off (fall off) if the whole system goes slack, as in dead calm conditions? I have never used that type, nor seen it first hand.

Nope
Easy to make as well.
or buy

https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=soft+shackle&_sacat=0&_sop=15

 

[dhays]

Nice set up, Dave. Why the whipping on the sides of the larger eye?

Whipping is just to secure the loop portion. Think of that piece as a modified dynema loop. To make a dynema loop secure, it is best to stitch part of it. I used a stitched whipping to ensure that the loop would never come undone. That photo is actually of one of my earlier designs. Even so, it is stronger than the chain on the boat.

 

[dhays]

Twisted,
Does that "shackle" ever come off (fall off) if the whole system goes slack, as in dead calm conditions? I have never used that type, nor seen it first hand.

It will never come undone unintentionally.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

I use a two leg bridle with a nylon eye spliced into the end of each. I use a dynema piece that have a loop on one end that attaches I both eyes with a larks head and has a shackle loop on the other end. I have a dynema loop that has a stopper knot on it that is wrapped around the chain much like that pendant is. Then the stopper knot is put in the shackle loop.

Forgive me, Dave, as I am a complete soft shackle and bridle using novice. Am I understanding the use of your Dyneema set up correctly? I get the whipping and the added security it creates, and I get the overall strength of Dyneema, and I get the unlikelihood of the soft shackle opening on its own, but I am struggling to understand how the set up connects the two bridle eyes to the anchor rode. Thank you.

 

[dhays]

It is my poor ability to explain, not you.

You know how a soft shackle works, a stopper knot that inserts through a loop.

I use the same idea to connect two dynema pieces. A loop and stopper knot is wrapped around the chain and then the other piece connects the bridle legs to that stopper knot.

Maybe these photos will help. I need to do a better job of putting it together to make it understandable.

The photo shows the larks head around just one eye but in practice it goes around the two eyes of the bridles. Rather than being wrapped around a chain, the loop and stopper were wrapped around a tube.

If I wasn't lazy I would make a video of how it is all used when anchoring.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Outstanding. I didn't get that there were two separate components. Are those both 7/16" Dyneema? The light blue is a simple loop knotted in a monkey fist, and the darker blue is a hybrid "soft shackle eye," right? All home made too, true? I'll get to studying my splicing technique! Thanks Dave.

 

[dhays]

Outstanding. I didn't get that there were two separate components. Are those both 7/16" Dyneema? The light blue is a simple loop knotted in a monkey fist, and the darker blue is a hybrid "soft shackle eye," right? All home made too, true? I'll get to studying my splicing technique! Thanks Dave.

They light blue (gray actually) is 3/16" and is the size of dynema I use for my typical shackles. However, what is pictured is what I used as I was developing this system. The bright blue is 1/4" dynema. The final version of both pieces were made with the 1/4". Much stronger than is needed but the upsizing is is easy and gives a huge safety margin. Keep in mind that these are connecting a bridle that is just 1/2" nylon 3-strand.

Also, the knot that is used for the stopper in the photos is a diamond stopper knot. That is what is most commonly used for shackles. However, in my final version I used the much stronger button knot stopper that I use in most of my soft shackles now. A well constructed shackle with a diamond stopper knot has a strength of about 150% line strength, or about 8,000lbs for the 3/16" dynema and over 12,000 lbs for 1/4".

However with the used of the button knot where the tails are buried, the strength increases to about 230% line strength. So that makes them rediculously strong at over 11,000 lbs and 17,000 lbs respectively.

Since my bridle attachment is essentially a soft shackle, the weak point with a button knot is where the loop goes around the stopper.

Anyway, more information that you wanted. I'm a bit if a nerd in that respect.

 

[Peter B]

Although now boatless, (but not in Seattle) - sorry, weak play on words - I have been following this thread out of interest, because I found anchoring one of the most interesting things about boating, actually, and still miss my Sarca. However, I just used a simple robust chain hook, which did fall off when almost retrieved, but never let go when deployed.

I kind of like however, the concept of the soft shackle, like the one there dhays has illustrated so well, as the idea of being able to attach and detach on the pulpit before it goes over the roller appeals.

However, I have a concern that in the emergency need to up anchor, retrieve, and depart in a hurry - which did happen to us a few times - the need to stop, and maybe in the dark and wet, (so often that's when that need arises), having to fumble around getting the soft shackle off the chain before it can be fully retrieved, gives me pause to think. And in the end, I think I'd prefer the chain hook dropping off before the roller, so I can just bring the chain all in and be off, might in the end win out..? Just sayin'...

PS. I was never convinced of the real need for long stretchy snubbers, (or bridles, TBH - too fiddly, for mine), believing the chain catenary shock-absorber enough in most situations, so used a fairly short one which barely touched the water when deployed, with just a modest loop of slack chain proximal to the hook.

 

[dhays]

I have never found it hard to remove, but there is always a sharp knife.

 

[Simi 60]

It is my poor ability to explain, not you.

You know how a soft shackle works, a stopper knot that inserts through a loop.

I use the same idea to connect two dynema pieces. A loop and stopper knot is wrapped around the chain and then the other piece connects the bridle legs to that stopper knot.

Maybe these photos will help. I need to do a better job of putting it together to make it understandable.

The other way of getting the same result is using a standard soft shackle to go through thimbles and eyes of a piece with eyes at each end.

 

[dhays]

I did that for a while. Two bridle lengths with a thimble spliced in the end. I then had a short third piece of double braid with a thimble and used a shift shackle them all together and then attached the double braid to the chain with a rolling hitch.

All kinds of ways to accomplish the same thing. I have used several of them and will likely continue to change over time as I try out other ideas.

 

[Peter B]

I have never found it hard to remove, but there is always a sharp knife.

Yep, and in 99 times out of a hundred, no issue there. However, in really stinking conditions, I could do the entire up anchor and off move from the protection, need I say comfort, of the downstairs helm - and did so several times in really S**ty conditions. Retrieving the snubber later, once safely under way, and wet weather gear and PFD on...

 

[dhays]

Yep, and in 99 times out of a hundred, no issue there. However, in really stinking conditions, I could do the entire up anchor and off move from the protection, need I say comfort, of the downstairs helm - and did so several times in really S**ty conditions. Retrieving the snubber later, once safely under way, and wet weather gear and PFD on...

That is really nice. I do have to go to the bow when raising the anchor to ensure that the anchor doesn't come through the roller upside down. That is an entirely different issue but it does keep me from being able to do the entire operation from the pilothouse. It can get cold, wet, and nasty for sure.

 

[twistedtree]

Twisted,
Does that "shackle" ever come off (fall off) if the whole system goes slack, as in dead calm conditions? I have never used that type, nor seen it first hand.

No, it doesn’t, and that 50% of the reason I use it. I found hooks, and I tried a few of them, would fall of when I didn’t want it to.

The other 50% is that it rides over the bow roller without issue. That allows for connect/disconnect up on deck rather than hanging over the pulpit.

 

[twistedtree]

Forgive me, Dave, as I am a complete soft shackle and bridle using novice. Am I understanding the use of your Dyneema set up correctly? I get the whipping and the added security it creates, and I get the overall strength of Dyneema, and I get the unlikelihood of the soft shackle opening on its own, but I am struggling to understand how the set up connects the two bridle eyes to the anchor rode. Thank you.

Just to be clear, that is NOT a soft shackle. Or at least not what I know of as a soft shackle.

 

[twistedtree]

It is my poor ability to explain, not you.

You know how a soft shackle works, a stopper knot that inserts through a loop.

I use the same idea to connect two dynema pieces. A loop and stopper knot is wrapped around the chain and then the other piece connects the bridle legs to that stopper knot.

Maybe these photos will help. I need to do a better job of putting it together to make it understandable.

The photo shows the larks head around just one eye but in practice it goes around the two eyes of the bridles. Rather than being wrapped around a chain, the loop and stopper were wrapped around a tube.

If I wasn't lazy I would make a video of how it is all used when anchoring.
View attachment 119388View attachment 119389View attachment 119390View attachment 119392View attachment 119391View attachment 119393

What's the advantage of this over a single shackle coupling the bridle end to a chain link?

 

[Roger Long]

That Mantus looks good to me. Hopefully the elastomeric piece has a long life.

Be careful in cold weather. I've snapped the plastic piece. Still, it's the hook I use.

 

[dhays]

What's the advantage of this over a single shackle coupling the bridle end to a chain link?

Really only two advantages, and those could be questionable. I did it that way in the past.

The first concern for me is the possibility of chafe of the shackle against the galvanized link. Granted, not a huge concern but the galvanized chain could, theoretically, wear through the shackle with enough time.

The second issue is that on my boat, I found it just a bit awkward to run the shackle through a chain link and the two thimbles for the bridle legs. With my current system, once the bridle is set up on the first anchoring, I don’t have to reset it on subsequent nights.

In your situation, where you are using it just as snubber with just the one thimble, running the shackle through the link would be easy. I would just be careful to inspect the shackle. Not really an issue because it takes me all of 10 minutes to make that type of shackle and I always have a few spares laying around.

So, while I think there are advantages, they may be advantages without a difference and may be only applicable to my application.

 

[twistedtree]

Really only two advantages, and those could be questionable. I did it that way in the past.

The first concern for me is the possibility of chafe of the shackle against the galvanized link. Granted, not a huge concern but the galvanized chain could, theoretically, wear through the shackle with enough time.

The second issue is that on my boat, I found it just a bit awkward to run the shackle through a chain link and the two thimbles for the bridle legs. With my current system, once the bridle is set up on the first anchoring, I don’t have to reset it on subsequent nights.

In your situation, where you are using it just as snubber with just the one thimble, running the shackle through the link would be easy. I would just be careful to inspect the shackle. Not really an issue because it takes me all of 10 minutes to make that type of shackle and I always have a few spares laying around.

So, while I think there are advantages, they may be advantages without a difference and may be only applicable to my application.

I was worried about chafe too, but the material is remarkably resilient. It definitely takes some getting used to before you come to trust it. And like you said, if it starts to chafe, just replace it.


Now I need to learn how to splice and otherwise make all these Dyneema gadgets.....

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Amazing that what seems like thin, way undersized material is so ideal for the job.

 

[psneeld]

Amazing that what seems like thin, way undersized material is so ideal for the job.

Have you seen that these new lines have pretty well replaces wire for liftng, power winches, lifelines, standing rigging on sailboats and many other high strength uses?

 

[HeadedToTexas]

I have. My winch uses Dyneema. Still gives me pause every time I see it. Hoping that fades with time!

 

[diver dave]

Using a light weight, low stretch anchor line?