The Art Of Anchoring

[mvweebles]

Perhaps one of you can send BoatUS a note and tell them the error of their ways in guiding boaters to set their anchors.

https://www.boatus.com/expert-advice/expert-advice-archive/2019/february/anchoring

Peter

 

[psneeld]

Gladly, Chuck Hawley wanted me to write for West Advisor at one point.

He always enjoyed following new ideas and new tech.

He also told me to not waste my time working in a West store where I would only reach a few people, he suggested teaching, etc.... so I chose TF as my final sounding board.

I can appreciate your anchoring techniques, because I and maybe Ted and others don't agree is no reason to get personal yet again.

Sure backing down is a good idea to a point, but for some that know when it is and isn't necessary due to experiencewhy do it?...people can do what makes them comfortable....the real point is the initial set and whether your engine has to be the only measure of establishing that.

 

[mvweebles]

Gladly, Chuck Hawley wanted me to write for West Advisor at one point.

If you can talk Chuck into advocating no need for setting an anchor, I will be impressed. He and I used to do safety demonstrations at TrawlerFest and Safety at Sea Seminars. Tell him Peter says hello. It's been a few months since we've traded notes.

Peter

 

[O C Diver]

Perhaps one of you can send BoatUS a note and tell them the error of their ways in guiding boaters to set their anchors.

https://www.boatus.com/expert-advice/expert-advice-archive/2019/february/anchoring

Peter

Nah, they live in the world of day cruisers and lunch hooks.

In all seriousness, if I were planning on 4:1 scope with a shiny bow ornament, I'd probably be backing down hard also,.....and not sleeping a wink at night.

If I anchor where there's a reversing current, before I've gone to bed, it reached near full velocity one way or the other. Between that and the boat wandering back and forth, the anchor is set.

Now I have absolutely no problem with you backing down to set your anchor. What annoys me are the boaters with about 3:1 scope in 20' of water. Accident waiting to happen.

Ted

 

[mvweebles]

Now I have absolutely no problem with you backing down to set your anchor. What annoys me are the boaters with about 3:1 scope in 20' of water. Accident waiting to happen.

Amen to that Ted. I am not short-scope person. But not always a long-scope either (>7:1 outside of storm conditions). I think it rude where boaters come into a crowded anchorage and lay-down 10:1.

Peter

 

[psneeld]

If you can talk Chuck into advocating no need for setting an anchor, I will be impressed. He and I used to do safety demonstrations at TrawlerFest and Safety at Sea Seminars. Tell him Peter says hello. It's been a few months since we've traded notes.

Peter

Oh I know...you tried dropping his name before.. I let it go....but since you decided to compare size.

I too taught at trawler fests and Annapolis safety at sea seminars....its been years for me and Chuck as I got away from his end of the business.. but what the heck...

.....as with manny TF disagreements... both know something and happen to disagree.

If you need more proof I may actually know something, approved at a higher level than internet posting.......

 

[mvweebles]

Oh I know...you tried dropping his name before.. I let it go....but since you decided to compare size.

I too taught at trawler fests and Annapolis safety at sea seminars....its been years for me and Chuck as I got away from his end of the business.. but what the heck...

.....as with manny TF disagreements... both know something and happen to disagree.

If you need more proof I may actually know something, approved at a higher level than internet posting.......

Chuck Hawley is an industry hero to me. I do not know him well, but our paths cross every year or so. Frankly, given how many people know him, I'm surprised he remembers me, but that's the type of guy he is. There are some people who give much more than they take - Chuck Hawley is that person. Meeting him was a lucky break for me - my professional marine career, short as it was (about 5-years full-time) would have gone nowhere without the chance meeting where he helped me with an Autopilot issue. From there, he opened some doors for me.

But....back to the topic. If you can get someone like Chuck Hawley to say it's not necessary to set an anchor, I'll eat every word. I would not be surprised to find you are very knowledgeable person with a great deal to add to many discussions. I just find it difficult to weed-though the contrarian approach. To me (and I think many), arguing against setting an anchor is peculiar.

Peter

 

[psneeld]

Like Ted said, those outfits write for boaters, not really cruisers unless the article is addressed to that level.

Just one of the reasons I didn't want to write for West Advisor and taught my own safety at sea classes to a different audience.

Again, if anchors have changed but anchoring has not....WTF?

Plus there is no argument against what do do if an anchor needs setting help and is no use to an unpowerd vessel or a midnight reset.

Contrary an to you maybe, refreshing to others educational to more, etc...etc....just not your opinion thats all. I really can't say what works 100 percent for 100 percent of the people....but I think I examined what works for me and why.

 

[firehoser75]

Granted there are many ways to layout and "set" your anchor and many of them can be effective. I have seen several boaters drive forward (some at a fairly good clip) while dropping their anchor and rode, letting their forward momentum turn the boat and I guess "set" the anchor. I guess it could be a "practice run" for any upcoming "reset" that may be needed?? From what I have seen, it seems to work OK, although I thought anchors were meant to be pulled from the shank .

I have witnessed those who let out just enough rode to reach the bottom (and maybe a bit more) and then back all over the bay trying to get it hold (usually without success), and also those who drop the anchor and proceed to "pile" the chain on top of it, immediately shutting down the engine and then jumping into the dinghy for a "shore excursion". Both of those methods not recommended, but I have seen the "pile" method actually work as the boat was still there in the morning.
I do also agree with the short scope in shallow water issue and the "selfish" boater who puts out extremely long rode layouts (except when storm conditions are expected) effectively taking up a large portion of the anchorage issue.

I think some of these "different" ideas discussed by various posters could be "regional" and based on local conditions and factors as well as what various boaters have tried and found "worked for them" under the conditions they find themselves in. I agree with Ted, it is very important that your ground tackle be able to "reset" itself without your direct intervention, however, I like to do everything I can to increase my odds of not really having to rely on a reset. For me, these things include: using a very good, properly sized anchor, all chain rode with the proper scope, selecting a protected location with known good holding, and ensuring that I have a dependable set to start with.
Here in the PNW area, it is rare to anchor in "shallow" water and we often anchor in depths of 30 plus feet with regular large tide swings of sometimes up to 20+ feet.
Anyway, I am comfortable and confident in the methods that I use in this area (described in an earlier post), as it sounds like others have found what works for them where they are.

 

[O C Diver]

I've posted this before and I'm posting it again. If I'm toward the end of the pack coming into an anchorage and can't find a spot that affords me the scope I want, I will leave without expecting someone else to change their scope to accommodate me.

If I'm early to the anchorage, I will set my scope to what I feel is appropriate. This putting my vessel at risk to accommodate your vessel is total BS. If I choose to anchor in 10' of water with 100' of chain below the surface (10:1) for 25+ knot winds, I'm going to do it. If an anchorage holds 20 boats at 5:1 scope, and 10 more show up, is every boat expected to go to 3:1?

Ted

 

[firehoser75]

Ted,
When I mentioned the "selfish" boater who takes up a good portion of the anchorage, I was referencing situations like I saw this summer. A sailboater dropped a mostly rope rode of about 10 to 1 scope in a very protected, popular, and busy anchorage in what was predicted to be very calm conditions. Was he within his "rights" to do so, sure. It was just not necessary and was somewhat selfish IMHO, as he caused many other boaters to move due to coming in later and not knowing what he had done (because no one else had used anything close to the scope he had used) and the boats came very close to hitting (all be it gently in the light conditions).
Your points are well taken though.

 

[mvweebles]

In the old days, cruisers would discuss their anchoring particulars with newcomers. Do those types of exchanges still take place? Seems like a courteous thing to do.

Peter

 

[O C Diver]

In the old days, cruisers would discuss their anchoring particulars with newcomers. Do those types of exchanges still take place? Seems like a courteous thing to do.

Peter

What percentage of cruisers actually have their radio on, do you think? In all fairness, some do talk when entering an anchorage, but they're usually not the ones that haven't a clue. The clueless don't want to open their mouths and remove all doubt. Usually conversation start with "when the anchor sets and your boat swings to current, we're going to be playing bumper boats". Or, "That's a nice spot. I put my anchor there also".

Ted

 

[Beaverlake]

What Tom said - both times. What seems to be missing in many of the posts in this thread are allowances for significant regional differences in tidal swings. Tom referenced our sometimes 20’ range here in the PacNW. How does that compare to the SE (FL, Bahamas, etc.)? Sure makes a difference in taking state of tide onto consideration, as does bottom type (can’t remember when, if ever, we’ve anchored in sand). We’ve never anchored in water clear enough or shallow enough to see the anchor. Diving on an anchor here? Get your dry suit on.

IMHO anchoring is more science than art and for me anyway, the art part is understanding how the boat “feels” when we do an initial set (yup, one or two short pops in reverse enough to raise the chain and stop the motion). The rest is being mindful of the bottom type (often noted on charts or in cruising guides), water depth, bottom slope, height of the pulpit off the water, state of the tide and potential range, general characteristics of the anchor design you are using, and weather/wind forecast. Want to collect more data? Purchase an inexpensive golfing range finder to figure distance from other boats. If in doubt about swing room pass by other boats and ask about their scope (assumes they are on board).

The other art side of anchoring is when and how to communicate with those already anchored (collecting data) and when necessary how to diplomatically approach late comers who might not “get it” (providing data?).

Anyway, my $1.02 worth. Oh, and FWIW we have a 44k (loaded weight) Bayliner 4788 with a Vulcan 33 and just under 300 feet of chain. And to introduce yet another somewhat controversial subject we use a load-rated swivel (15k+). And a bridle/snubber but no kellet. There, that about covers the additional discussion topics!

 

[Bob M]

"A better option it to create a single rode with multiple anchors in a single line anchor to anchor so wayward boats can slide by."


This is the first time I've seen this advice in print, which has been our go-to solution for high winds for decades.


It works!

 

[AlanT]

I typically don't back down like some do by moving backwards quickly to tug the anchor into the bottom. If there's enough wind, I just let the boat blow downwind in a slow, controlled manner to pull the rode tight and make the initial set. If there's light wind, I'll use the engines to do that. But I generally do it pretty gently. Then after that initial set and a few seconds for things to settle, I'll smoothly bring up tension on the rode again and then sit against it with both engines in idle reverse until it's fully stretched and boat speed shows 0. Then increase to 1000 RPM and let it settle. That gets it nicely dug in and confirms the anchor isn't just caught on something weak and that the bottom isn't total crap.

If I'm in a bottom where I can't at least pull idle reverse against the anchor without it dragging or breaking free, then I'm moving, as I won't trust it to hold in any kind of wind.

Nice description. That is exactly what we do and have done with multiple boats sail and power over decades. It has always either (a) worked, or (b) revealed nice and early that the anchor or anchorage was unsuited.

One point for newbies. If the anchor drags evenly on a soft mud bottom under reverse in that situation you don't necessarily have to move. That decision can be dependent on how long you are planning to stay, if we are just dropping a lunch hook, we may well stay in that location while maintaining an anchor watch while the grandkids play etc. But would not of course leave the boat, or remain overnight in a known "draggy" anchorage.

The softest draggiest anchorages I have come across have tended to be in river estuaries and creeks.

 

[mvweebles]

"A better option it to create a single rode with multiple anchors in a single line anchor to anchor so wayward boats can slide by."


This is the first time I've seen this advice in print, which has been our go-to solution for high winds for decades

2016 Practical Sailor article on tandem anchor tests. Bot sure this is the config you're referencing, but appears PS testing shows mixed results depending on anchor pairs, scope, and bottom.

 

[Simi 60]

We backed down the first time we got our 150lb Manson Supreme
Never again - frightening stuff.
Running gear is still set up as a commercial fishing trawler so we have a 5 tonne plus bollard pull.

Drop it and she self sets first time every time for over 1500 consecutive nights.

 

[AusCan]

I take generic anchoring advice with a grain of salt. It might be great advice for a particular area, but there isn't one way to anchor which suits all conditions due to the high number of variables.

Water depth, type of bottom, amount of weed, tidal change in depth, slope of bottom, type of anchor, wind speed and direction, current speed and direction, windage of boat, spacing between boats. It all must be considered.

The method I use to anchor (and the type of anchor I use) wouldn't be suitable for most other TF members. The bottom here is weedy limestone, sometimes covered with variable amounts of sand. Tidal change twice a day, and strong katabatic winds can make anchoring a challenge for visitors if the different conditions are not considered.

 

[catalinajack]

Today we took the boat out for a short cruise to check out whether a leak was still leaking. It wasn't. We stopped in a cove and shut down the engines. I dropped the anchor to stop any drift while I was in the engine room. I let out 25 feet of chain in 12 feet of water. The boat drifted back with the wind and, much to my surprise, the anchor set on its own. I think I will be keeping this anchor. This wasn't the first time we experienced this.

 

[dhays]

I typically will allow the anchor to initially set using wind or current. If none, I'll use just a bit of boat motion to lay out the rode. When it catches, I'll gently back going in and out of gear until the rode is tight and then I'll leave it in reverse at idle and check to make sure we aren't moving.


This is not a hard set and is as much a test of how the anchor is going to set itself in the bottom as anything else. Wind and current will often cause the anchor to be reset a couple times overnight. Again, this works for my region, my boat, my gear, and my comfort level.

 

[mvweebles]

Can the folks who are advocating NOT setting an anchor please cite date besides personal experience that the anchor will somehow burrow in on its own? This is contrary to guidance from many well know sources that novices may read. I suggest it is responsible to caveat your technique accordingly and give some justification why it's a bad idea for you to set an anchor against conventional wisdom.

Peter

BoatUS recommends backing down to set an anchor.
https://www.boatus.com/expert-advice/expert-advice-archive/2019/february/anchoring

Practical sailor recommends backing down to set an anchor
http://sailskills.co.uk/Stability/sailskills_stability_stability_explained_AVS.html

West marine advisor (who has sponsored many anchor tears over the years) recommends backing down to set an anchor.
https://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/How-To-Anchor-Securely

 

[dhays]

Can the folks who are advocating NOT setting an anchor please cite date besides personal experience that the anchor will somehow burrow in on its own? This is contrary to guidance from many well know sources that novices may read. I suggest it is responsible to caveat your technique accordingly and give some justification why it's a bad idea for you to set an anchor against conventional wisdom.

Other than the example that Hippo cited, when anchoring in very soft Chesapeake mud, I don't recall anyone saying it was a bad idea to do a hard set, just not necessary.


Many of us boat in areas that get tidal current reversals. Our anchors are going to tend to reset anyway. I'm not sure that the anchors are actually spining in the sea bottom but becoming unset, then resetting.


I don't have data to back this up. However, I did have an engine failure experience at the interface of strong Tacoma Narrows tidal eddies. Rather than run aground, I lowered the anchor. It grabbed and set in the 4-6 knot current. As the eddy moved past me, the current reversed, the anchor came loose and reset. This happened a number of times, each time I got close to shore. It made me appreciate just how well a good anchor will reset.

 

[psneeld]

What data says you have to?

Recommendations by magazine writers?

Ted posted the only proof I need, it it doesn't reset itself in the middle of the night after it breaks loose for whatever reason, the captain maybe want to rethink a couple of things.

I am with Simi on this one, my Manson Supreme hasn't net me down in hundreds of anchoring situations with or without backdown...and more importantly in a couple dozen engine shutdown/failure situations that were critical and backdown was not an option.

Reading the West article, my boat almost always moves, sets, and surges forward as the chain settles down and pulls the boat forward...like the article says you should do with the engine. If I was a beginner, I would follow the advice...I think I am past that point and my guess ithers may think so too.

I say no "data" in those links determining that backing down is required.

 

[mvweebles]

What data says you have to?

Recommendations by magazine writers?

Ted posted the only proof I need, it it doesn't reset itself in the middle of the night after it breaks loose for whatever reason, the captain maybe want to rethink a couple of things.

I am with Simi on this one, my Manson Supreme hasn't net me down in hundreds of anchoring situations with or without backdown...and more importantly in a couple dozen engine shutdown/failure situations that were critical and backdown was not an option.

I don't need any data. I think you guys are nuts and wish you'd put some sort of mark on your boat that says "setting anchors is a bad idea" so I could avoid you like super-spreader event.

I cited three publications, including one from a major insurer. Feel free to go your own way, but to recommend to others without citation? Sorry, I find that irresponsible.

BTW - the anchor tests in PS did not support Hippos hypothesis either. Conclusion was different though - dual anchors, one of which being a fortress.

 

[markpierce]

Have rarely needed the engine to "back down" on an anchor. A two-knot current or a strong wind is usually sufficient here. Boat stops with a jerk.

 

[psneeld]

Remember where we talked about being asked to write those articles for at least one of those outfits?

Why is the author in those articles any more knowledgeable than me or others here?

Irresponsible? Guess you are now TFs only advice giver that is certified by magazines written for beginners.

And you didn't answer the question...what DATA says you have to? Especially that it was written for anchors of several generations ago?

 

[markpierce]

... Usually conversation start with "when the anchor sets and your boat swings to current, we're going to be playing bumper boats". Or, "That's a nice spot. I put my anchor there also".

Ted

Deploy your fenders.

 

[mvweebles]

Remember where we talked about being asked to write those articles for at least one of those outfits?

Why is the author in those articles any more knowledgeable than me or others here?

Because West Marine has a long history of funding anchor testing. 1000s of dollars and 100s of man hours. Same with BoatUS. Same with Practical Sailor. Collectively, they do tons of research and reach a couple million boaters. They have no dog in the fight except to fund research and make recommendations.

And that's just some quick sources I found via my phone.

To anyone still reading: you will find scant research from a credible source that says setting an anchor is a bad idea. You can find opinions from self proclaimed experts who would argue anything. But the research is clear. Set your anchor. There may be circumstances where you need to adjust your practice such as soft mud bottoms, but your go-to practice should be to set your anchor.

Peter

 

[psneeld]

Ok...to keep things calm.

ALL beginners are on notice to back down on your anchors. When you become comfortable not doing so all the time, please don't become irresponsible enough to say that you have become comfortable doing so and explain why. And please get your forehead tattooed so others know not to anchor near you.

I too have no dog in the game and a long history of training and educating with a solid background/experience. Those articles if you haven't notice have sounded pretty much the same for the last 50 years at least. That alone say mountains about boating articles.

I never said setting was a bad idea, just not required all the time. Oh...and like I said...please provide any "research" over opinion that is "clear".

Anchor tests are usually about holding power, generally not setting...show me one that compares backing down vs not backing down.

Get all hyped up but at least 2 others I would certainly trust here dont disagree that backing down is a passed along idea with no real basis as a requirement.