44lb Bruce is too much...

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Replacement should be the last choice.

They draw lots of Amps, the Muir on my last boat drew 120A after motor rebuild and promptly fried the ammeter.
Are you running engines while you (attempt) retrieve? Anchor mfrs usually advise it.
Sounds like bad connections or a defective motor to me.

I have a brand new Muir Storm thanks to the prior owner, but he didn't install the circuit breaker. Muir says it draws 80 amps, but after installing the Muir 150A breaker that I found in a locker, it trips right when the anchor tries to make the 90 degree turn on to the pulpit. Haven't done the trouble shooting yet.

I haven't seen any mention of a circuit breaker in this thread. Is there one? If the winch is pooping out but not blowing the breaker, it isn't getting enough juice to blow it.

Hopefully, this is one of those frustrating missdirection projects. OP worked on the gears so it must be the gears. Turns out it is a corroded electrical connection that cooincidentally appeared at the same time.
 
When set to DC A 50u, it pegged, and then dropped back to zero almost immediately. But I’m not sure I’m using this thing right, or if it’s even proper.

That measures amperage, but couldn't possibly have the capacity to measure the amperage flowing through your motor. If you could measure the actual amperage, while under load, that would allow you to calculate how many watts your motor is consuming. If the voltage stays high (say, at least 10), but the amperage times that voltage is not at least, say 400 (given that it is rated at 450), you will know that the motor is damaged.
 
Try doing the load test I described earlier, which measures only voltage.

Unlike voltage, current is measures in line. Without a load to limit current, it'll be super high and pop the meter or it's fuse. And, that meter doesn't look like it has a scale for the amperage that the windlass draws, anyway. I suspect you popped that feature of the meter or the associated fuse.

To measure current, the easiest way is to use a clamp meter. But, the ones for DC can be more expensive than the ones for AC. They have to use a hall effect sensor instead of a coil.
 
Steve G didn’t have any troubles lifting anchors of 45lbs.
And he used a manual winch.
 
Archimedes said, 'If you give me a lever and a place to stand, I can move the world. ... Centuries ago....


No surprise there about manual windlasses..... but man invented electricity for a reason. You just have to harness it properly.
 
Ok I got out and disconnected the windlass. And wrapped the wires around the leads of my very ancient and donated voltmeter.

When set on DC25, I was getting 12v steady.

When set to DC A 50u, it pegged, and then dropped back to zero almost immediately. But I’m not sure I’m using this thing right, or if it’s even proper.

So I’m wondering if this thing is bad. It’s either a relay module or a 25A circuit breaker.

ETA: according to mfg's parts list, this this is a "dual reversing solenoid"

It's good that you pulled out the multi meter.

Measuring voltage is very simple, and you did that correctly, place red lead on positive wire, place black lead on negative wire. If it's a reversing windlass (which I believe you said it's a freefall model at some point) then they will be reversed when run in reverse. You'll need to measure this on the motors terminals, not any place else, you need to know how much voltage is actually at the motor, this will only read voltage when you engage the motor and lift the anchor, the measurement while it is attempting but failing is the important number.

Measuring current above about 10 amps cannot be done with a basic multimeter, and yours is even more basic, limited to 1/4 of 1 amp. You have to put the multi meter IN the circuit by disconnecting a wire from the system, wiring it to the meter, and then wire the meter to the system. All current flows THROUGH the meter when you do that.

When you attempted to measure current, you placed the leads across the voltage source in a current reading setting on the meter which shorted the voltage source directly across the meter. Doing so blew an internal fuse or possibly damaged the meter.

To measure high current DC, the most reasonable solution is a clamp meter that can perform DC current measurements.
 
Steve G didn’t have any troubles lifting anchors of 45lbs.
And he used a manual winch.


I've seriously considered going manual before. Windlasses seem to be more trouble than they are worth, and it's just one more drain on the battery system. I probably wouldn't mind getting out there with a crank. The deepest water gets around here is maybe 15', unless we eventually go out into the gulf. Which will probably never happen.
 
I've seriously considered going manual before. Windlasses seem to be more trouble than they are worth, and it's just one more drain on the battery system. I probably wouldn't mind getting out there with a crank. The deepest water gets around here is maybe 15', unless we eventually go out into the gulf. Which will probably never happen.

A good windlass shouldn't be much trouble at all. Maintain it occasionally (which would be the same with a manual one) and it should "just work". To me, the biggest issue with a manual windlass is that they're slow, which makes you less inclined to pick up and move if the situation dictates you should. Even more so in deeper water.
 
Measuring voltage when the cables are disconnected from the windlass is really not of any use. You need to hook the cables back up to the windlass and see what the voltage is under load, while the windlass is running, to make it a relevant test.
 
I contacted the electrician who installed my battery bank. He said he'd charge me $90 for an hour of labor to come out and check out wiring, and diagnose the issue.

I'm not sure if it's worth it to buy a $90 clamp voltmeter which I'd use on board again and again and continue to try and do this myself, or just pay him and be done with it.
 
I contacted the electrician who installed my battery bank. He said he'd charge me $90 for an hour of labor to come out and check out wiring, and diagnose the issue.

I'm not sure if it's worth it to buy a $90 clamp voltmeter which I'd use on board again and again and continue to try and do this myself, or just pay him and be done with it.

Clamp multimeters are really useful troubleshooting tools - great to see current flowing through a wire without needing to disconnect, find a ground, etc. etc. I tried unsuccessfully to find a link to mine, but I think it was under $50.

My rule of thumb on hiring folks is, whenever possible, to try and be there when they work so I can learn what they're doing 10x faster than figuring it out myself.
 
I've seriously considered going manual before. Windlasses seem to be more trouble than they are worth, and it's just one more drain on the battery system

Get a decent windlass and a decent battery setup and your view will change.

Think about how you are going to retrieve an anchor manually, when it's blowing 40 knots and you are by yourself.
 
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Fluke 115 Compact True-RMS Digital Multimeter

Will measure up to 20a briefly. Look for it being on sale. Then ~$100us.
 
I contacted the electrician who installed my battery bank. He said he'd charge me $90 for an hour of labor to come out and check out wiring, and diagnose the issue.

I'm not sure if it's worth it to buy a $90 clamp voltmeter which I'd use on board again and again and continue to try and do this myself, or just pay him and be done with it.

In your other thread, you are asking about knowing your limits. In my view, this is a straightforward project with little downside to seeing through yourself. Sure you can pay for someone to do it, and if you prefer that then that's ok. If you want to expand your scope of limits and understanding this is a great project to do it with.

To understand and troubleshoot electrical will take some bit of study, a good book like Calder's, read through it. Buy a good quality meter (A Fluke 101 for $60 comes to mind), and then throw yourself on the project. Without a good meter, you'll have more headaches than success, you can't see electricity (usually) and you have to understand, trust and rely on your tools to do the seeing for you. Most of the projects on your list were electrical in nature, without some study and some basic tools you can't do those things.

You don't need a clamp meter to do this job. They are handy but not necessary, few people have DC capable clamp meters in their tool bag.

You need a methodical, logical approach; start at the windlass, and test the system with your meter from the motor terminals, then the relay, then the fuse/breaker, then the battery itself.

You can get coaching and suggestions here, but you've got to put in the work to learn the basics, know what the terms mean, what the basic tests are, and how to do them. That's all book knowledge, the windlass project can turn that book knowledge into practical experience.
 
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Fluke 115 Compact True-RMS Digital Multimeter

Will measure up to 20a briefly. Look for it being on sale. Then ~$100us.

If you can find a 115 for that price, would be a great deal. They seem to usually go for around $150. My 117 was $170 and change.
 
Is it possible that the large cable delivering the 12V power is undersized by the PO? If it was, it could cause similar problems.

What gage, load and how far?
 
Clearly you are all at sea over this - well, not literally, because that's where you want to be - but with a reliable windlass.

Originally Posted by toocoys
"I contacted the electrician who installed my battery bank. He said he'd charge me $90 for an hour of labor to come out and check out wiring, and diagnose the issue."

Frankly, I think that $90 could well be the best $90 you'll ever spend. It well might end up saving more than that, as you flounder around trying out all the preceding suggestions, only to find 'that wasn't it'..!. :)
 
A 23lb Excel anchor will do everything a Bruce will and not that expensive. I have one I could sell to you. You could reduce the chain on your rode. You could go to a capstan winch like I have (Endurance) quite reasonably priced (probably $350). Or you could find a manual winch like Steve G has on his sailboat.
Pic is my capstan winch.

Perhaps someone is seeing this post that has a manual winch.
 

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Toocoys,
I may have said or implied some of my anchor gear is right for you. Not so. Your boat is a “37” w lots of windage.
The 23lb Excel may do fine but I’m sure it’s undersized. My capstan is too small. I guess I assumed you’d look for a bigger unit. And you’d likely need to reduce the amount (in weight) of the chain in your rode. And you should get a 35lb Excel if you go that route.

It never really sunk in that your boat was so big.

Sorry,
Eric
 
Toocoys,
I may have said or implied some of my anchor gear is right for you. Not so. Your boat is a “37” w lots of windage.
The 23lb Excel may do fine but I’m sure it’s undersized. My capstan is too small. I guess I assumed you’d look for a bigger unit. And you’d likely need to reduce the amount (in weight) of the chain in your rode. And you should get a 35lb Excel if you go that route.

It never really sunk in that your boat was so big.

Sorry,
Eric


I'd even call a 35lb Excel small on that boat, as is the 44lb Bruce. It's got easily as much windage as my 38 footer and it's only slightly lighter. Something modern in the 50 - 65 lb range is likely more appropriate if you want to account for bad conditions. Personally, I'm running a 73lb Vulcan. For my boat (and likely that 37 footer), Rocna, Spade, and Mantus all suggest 55 lbs. Mantus suggests 65 as a storm anchor. I went up 1 from the recommendation, knowing my boat isn't the best behaved at anchor (which adds more load). The Sarca Excel chart suggests the number 5 size, which is 22 kg / 48 lbs.
 
rslifkin,
Yes I live mostly in a small boat mind.
To me a 73lb anchor is a never seen before monster.
I’ll stick to small boats.
Sorry

And thanks for the applicable numbers.
The Excel, however is newer than most of the anchors that you mention tho.
 
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rslifkin,
Yes I live mostly in a small boat mind.
To me a 73lb anchor is a never seen before monster.
I’ll stick to small boats.
Sorry

And thanks for the applicable numbers.
The Excel, however is newer than most of the anchors that you mention tho.

Big boats aren't so bad for anchoring. The high windage ones need proportionally more anchor than something low profile and easy to anchor like your Willard. But as you go bigger, everything else gets heavier, so debating between an anchor in one size vs 20 lbs heavier will have a smaller overall effect on the boat (as anchor size scales more to boat size than boat weight in most cases).
 
I've been able to determine that I have a wiring issue, without the need of the electrician.

Yesterday I cut the wires to the windlass, exposed new wire, and reconnected them with self soldering heat shrink connectors. After doing that I was able to run the windlass and pick up the anchor off the bottom, and all they way up to the bow pulpit before it stopped. It just didn't have enough juice to pull it up and over.

While wire tracing, I noticed that the wire leading from the reversing solenoid to the windlass is severly under sized. It's 10-12g wire, and it should be 6g. I was quite surprised at the size of 6g wire when I looked at it yesterday at the marine store. I also found a few wire splices where wire splices shouldn't have been.

So I'm going to pull the old wire from the solenoid to the windlass out, and run a pull string through. I'll pick up some 6/2 flat wire of proper length and install a new, single run from the solenoid to the windlass and see if that improves things.

I'm fairly certain my motor and solenoid is still good though based on yesterdays lift test.
 
Yes, it does sound like you might be onto something, for sure. Follow that plan. Calling in the electrician can then be the next step if that fails to solve it fully. :thumb:
 
Ok before I start pulling wires, I borrowed a clamp meter from a dock mate. I set it like the picture shows, clamped it to the red wire near the windlass and had the spouse push the retrieve button. I got readings of .45-ish

The manual shows an amp draw of 8-12 amps on retrieval.

Am I doing this correctly?
 

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Judging by the sine wave icon above the current settings, it looks like that meter can read only AC current (amps) via the clamp. That is pretty common.

Here are a couple of options for DC clamp meters that aren't crazy expensive but sensitive enough for a lot of boat work:


https://www.tequipment.net/Extech380950.asp
https://www.tequipment.net/BK316.html

AC current can be measured using coils. DC requires a hall effect sensor, which a bit more sophisticated and $.
 
An electrician would have all that gear - and know how to use it. Just sayin'... :flowers:
 
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