Bilge pump circuit breaker

[HeadedToTexas]

For those of you in the unswitched fused connections for bilge pumps, is fuse inspection per of your daily checklist? Do you inspect the fuses with a multimeter or visually?

 

[DrissZougari]

Since I have a high water alarm in my boat (forward & aft), I usual exercise my x3 bilge pumps monthly by activating the float switches (all have float switches).

 

[SteveK]

I have also read of a motorhome owner that burned up his TOAD (dingy) due to an auto reset breaker in his line that charges / maintains his battery. I prefer the manual reset variety above auto or fuses.

I think an auto reset to the battery is not good. I suggested auto reset from battery to bilge pump. I have always considered a bilge pump essential equipment.
I would be interested to hear why ABYC does not approve.

 

[rwidman]

Having a single circuit breaker for multiple bilge pumps is a bad idea. If one shorts and trips the breaker, you will have no power to the rest of them. Also, the circuit breaker would have to be rated for the maximum current draw of all the pumps running at the same time. That might not protect an individual pump and wiring.

Fuses provide a better solution for bilge pumps because they are available in a wider variety of ratings than circuit breakers.

Any circuit protection should be installed within seven inches (measured along the wire) of the source of power. Panel mount fuse holders are convenient and would be a good installation.

 

[Steve DAntonio]

I think an auto reset to the battery is not good. I suggested auto reset from battery to bilge pump. I have always considered a bilge pump essential equipment.
I would be interested to hear why ABYC does not approve.

Auto-resetting devices in general are prohibited because they can turn gear on unexpectedly, potentially while it's being worked on. Also, for a bilge pump, the over-current protection is necessary for a full locked rotor scenario, once the OCP trips it should not be reset until the locked rotor issue is resolved. Having to manually reset it makes that more likely.

 

[Steve DAntonio]

Having a single circuit breaker for multiple bilge pumps is a bad idea. If one shorts and trips the breaker, you will have no power to the rest of them. Also, the circuit breaker would have to be rated for the maximum current draw of all the pumps running at the same time. That might not protect an individual pump and wiring.

Fuses provide a better solution for bilge pumps because they are available in a wider variety of ratings than circuit breakers.

Any circuit protection should be installed within seven inches (measured along the wire) of the source of power. Panel mount fuse holders are convenient and would be a good installation.

Having one circuit breaker for multiple pumps, or any multiple motors (windshield wipers are another example) is not only a bad idea, it violates electrical over -current protection standards, those of ABYC and others, as well as those of the pump manufacturers.

I respectfully disagree that individual fuses offer a better solution; individual, protected circuit breakers are ideal because they can be infinitely reset, and they can be easily turned off if you don't want the pump to run, if you have a fuel or oil leak for instance. If you have a fault and only three spare fuses and two blow and you haven't identified the problem, what do you do?

I've never not been able to properly protect a bilge pump with the available range of circuit breakers.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

So the Fall and half the Winter slipped by and I am still working on this bilge pump circuit issue. Through subsequent research I have concluded that serious boaters fall into three camps:

1. Bilge pumps wired hot to batteries with or without circuit protection.
2. Bilge pumps with breakers on switched circuits in electrical panels.
3. Bilge pumps on dedicated panels with switches, alarms, breakers, and indicator lights for manual operation.

I bought a boat with all three bilge pumps wired to the same breaker in my main electrical panel, but I think I lean toward type 3 rather than type 2. Respondents in this thread fall into all three types and that makes this an opinion subject rather than a right and wrong subject.

There are down sides to all three approaches. Bilge pumps on unswitched circuits with fuses instead of breakers can not be shut off, but may lack manual control or individual control leaving them susceptible to one pump taking down the rest. Bilge pumps with breakers or any type of switch can be accidentally disabled or shut off. Bilge pump controls hidden in engine rooms may be less prone to be accidentally switched off, but are more out of sight and out of mind and may not receive attention when needed.

My boat does not have unlimited "dash" space at either helm, but I am starting to believe that a dedicated bilge pump panel mounted at my lower helm that features individual control and circuit breakers for each pump and an alarm or activation counter to alert or show what happened when I am not watching. This one from Aqualarm is an example.

 

[tiltrider1]

I prefer the direction you are headed. I like having an auto/manual/off switch wired to its own circuit breaker. I have even added a bilge counter that tracks history. My high water alarm is it’s own separate circuit. You can use circuit breakers with safeties so that they can’t be accidentally bumped off.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Still undecided about mounting this bilge pump panel up at the helm where it can be seen while walking through the boat, or down in the engine room where you have to lift a hatch to see it, but where I am at least once a day.

 

[Lou_tribal]

Set this in a place you can easily and quickly reach so you can turn your pump on manually in case of emergency and faulty switch.

L

 

[HeadedToTexas]

My lower helm has space between the wheel and the disconnect that is both protected (by the wheel) from accidental contact and quite visible being right in the main traffic pattern of our boat. Access for wiring is as good as it gets. Sounds like the right place to me.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

As I peel the onion, I am not finding the "right" panel. Lots of great options, but none seem to accomplish what I'm after without mixing and matching components from different manufacturers. Today I have 2 bilge pumps and a shower sump pump all on the same circuit breaker. One goes and they all go. Someone gets sloppy and shuts off the breaker on the way out of the boat and there is no protection. Also no manual operation if a switch fails.

My first solution was really just to make way for another breaker to power my Dinghy Butler, but this has become an important and separate improvement project. Here's what I want to accomplish.

1. Power all bilge pumps from an unswitched source
2. Provide each bilge pump with its own breaker
3. Provide each bilge pump with manual control
4. Include counters for the main bilge pumps, but not the shower sump pump
5. Alarm on high water or excess run time of the bilge pumps

I thought the Pump Counter with 3 Way Pump Switch for 3 pumps would do almost all of it, even though counting the shower sump pump actuations wouldn't mean much (to me). Turns out that panel provides no circuit breaker protection or alarm function.

The Marine Bilge Pump Switch Panel with bilge counter for 3 pumps from AC/DC Marine is close too and provides circuit protection. Any I am missing?

 

[Helmsman]

HtT, why not put them above the pilot house windows above the helm? I think that is where they are on the new Helmsman’s. That way, they are unlikely to get switched off by accident, they are in full view, at least while underway, and due to the excellent visibility from the salon, visible from there.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

That would be great, and I would love to put a few other things up there, but hull #3 does not have a "panel" there and I would have to fabricate that first.

Now that I am reviewing the photo, I guess it may be possible to mount something in that facade as long as it is not too thick and the rear connections side could be covered by a box. I have always envisioned blinds in that area like on the side windows of the pilot house.

 

[Helmsman]

I didn’t realize that. Putting a box up there across the front would provide some space for equipment, but the roof panels would need to be altered to allow you to continue to pull them down, I guess. That creates some scope creep though.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Scope creep is a close acquaintance of mine!

 

[HeadedToTexas]

I pulled the wires off the old breaker in the main DC panel and started working them out of the massive bundle of wire, but encountered conduit after 2 feet or so. That is a dead end.

The wires at the bilge pump end of each circuit are far less bundled, but I was only able to free up about 8 feet before the bundle dives beneath the day head and then under the main engine. Another dead end. I need about 12 feet to neatly route the bilge pump wires up to the new panel.

So here's my plan. Mount a pair of well labeled and protected terminal strips in suitable places and use new wire to bridge the two terminal strips. Obviously each pump needs its own 12 VDC hot wire, but can the ground wires be combined into a single conductor for this run from the terminal strip in the bilge to the terminal strip at the lower helm near the new panel?

The three grounds become one when the circuit reaches the panel, and I do not see any problem combining them at the bilge panel. Does ABYC have any problems with that approach?

 

[C lectric]

I suggest you do NOT combine grounds into one wire, especially for equipment like this, safety equipment..
If any problems occur with the single ground then you have lost all of them. I had this happen but with my W/S wipers.

Have you considered used a 3 strand cable for the grounds lead down to an accessible location , then using a terminal strip to the cables to each pump location.
It is often easier to pull a cable than individual wires.
Use a cable lubricant to help reduce resistance. It makes a big difference.

For my bilge pumps I used relays sized for several times the power use of the bilge pumps. I then wired directly to the battery , each fused. Then only light guage, a small wire cable ,was needed from the control panel to the relays.

 

[CharlieO.]

C lectric, you don't consider the relay an additional point of possible failure? Not questioning what you did but just curious because I am about to rewire my bilge pumps.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Here's where I will be when the soldering is done. The DC grounds will come back "all" the way back to the bilge pump panel. They are all basically right beneath the panel at our lower helm, so it isn't that far.

 

[C lectric]

C lectric, you don't consider the relay an additional point of possible failure? Not questioning what you did but just curious because I am about to rewire my bilge pumps.

All connections and equipment can be a failure point. The point I was trying to make was that one single ground wire for three pumps could disable all three.

With my relays it would be one pump if something goofed up.


After nearly 30 yrs with those same relays they still do what they are asked for.
But you too are right, nothing is goof up proof. Just lowering the odds.

 

[CharlieO.]

Thanks C lectric,
I plan on wiring my two bilge pumps on completely separated circuits from each other, one is my primary pump and one is my backup/high water pump. I need to rewire them as I am adding the three way switches with led indicators into the circuit.

 

[SteveK]

Here's where I will be when the soldering is done. The DC grounds will come back "all" the way back to the bilge pump panel. They are all basically right beneath the panel at our lower helm, so it isn't that far.

Curious about the schematic. There is a yellow wire marked +12VDC going no where. Yellow is the new black for DC- . So what is the intent of that wire?

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Yellow in the schematic is the +12 VDC hot lead straight from the house battery bank positive bus. As all of the other +12 VDC wiring on my boat is red, the feed from the bus bar to the terminal strip at the panel will also be red. AC/DC Marine supplied my panel with a red pigtail already connected to the bilge pump breaker and switch panel, so I'll keep that as is.

Some of their panels come with yellow pigtails and that's what their schematic shows. I should have changed it on the one I posted here. Below is a photo of my panel showing only red, black, and brown wiring.