AIS Stand-alone.

[DDW]

The Vesper 8000 isn't an orphaned product. Still being manufactured and sold. There has been no firmware updates for 3 years, but none have been needed. With it, and a cell phone or tablet or laptop, you can display AIS targets overlaid on a moving map chart, with free software and charts (such as OpenCPN). That is far better than a featureless display of AIS, which is itself far better than an internet source (the information may be incomplete and hours old).

To Soo-Valley, on a clear day, AIS can see around corners which your eyes and radar cannot. In the PNW channels, that can be a distinct advantage, when around the next corner and coming your way at 20 knots is a 500' ferry or an 800' cruise ship. And a transponder (as distinct from a receiver), lets them see you too.

 

[SteveK]

As you say it's an aid. In my opinion a very valuable aid. AIS within its limitations can 'see' around the corner. Unlike radar which is line of sight only. The real value comes in when boating in areas where big fast vessels can come around the corner very close to you. Active Pass is a great example should you miss the security call on VHF 16 and 13.

Notice I am in the gulf islands and play dodge the ferry on regular basis. Having been on the bridge of a ferry I asked what they wish pleasurer craft would do to show intentions. Aside from get out of the way, it was hold your course and watch ours. They said the biggest frustration was from those not paying any attention, travelling (trolling for fish) in one direction and suddenly changing direction into their path. That is why fishing in active pass was closed down. We were going through Active when I asked and fishing was still allowed.

As for traversing Active Pass, I do it often enough and hug the shore in the turns where line of sight is lost. The big boats cannot hug that close to shore, so be prepared for oncoming by staying out of the lane of travel.

The security calls are made well in advance of entering the pass, so that does not tell you where they are.

 

[Portage_Bay]

Soo, yes I noticed your home port is Gulf Islands which is why I used Active Pass as an example. As a semi-retired professional I am well aware of the challenges in figuring out what many recreational boaters are going to do. As a recreational boater I'm well aware of staying where the big boys can't go so I don't get run over in tight places. Your correct statement that security calls do not tell me where the ferry is only adds to the reasons to have AIS.

Before AIS from either side of the fence, professional or recreational, I had to try to determine another vessel's name. I had to take the time to assess their course and speed. All very possible but it takes time. Now it so much simpler to hail "Hanjin Seven Hatcher, this is Pelorus" and make my intentions known. As opposed to "Calling the deep draft approaching (insert name of nav aid or point of land here), this is Pelorus" From the other side when facing an armada of white recreational boats I had no idea who to call. Having to resort to the danger signal when things get too close was never a good feeling.

AIS is a great aid, a very powerful tool. As long as the user understands its limitations. Yes I can get by just fine on near shore and inshore waters with a paper chart, rule and dividers, a compensated compass and a time piece. Buy why would I want to when I have radar, plotter + GPS and now AIS? It's all about making it easier to be safe.

Notice I am in the gulf islands and play dodge the ferry on regular basis. Having been on the bridge of a ferry I asked what they wish pleasurer craft would do to show intentions. Aside from get out of the way, it was hold your course and watch ours. They said the biggest frustration was from those not paying any attention, travelling (trolling for fish) in one direction and suddenly changing direction into their path. That is why fishing in active pass was closed down. We were going through Active when I asked and fishing was still allowed.

As for traversing Active Pass, I do it often enough and hug the shore in the turns where line of sight is lost. The big boats cannot hug that close to shore, so be prepared for oncoming by staying out of the lane of travel.

The security calls are made well in advance of entering the pass, so that does not tell you where they are.

 

[SteveK]

What is easier for one is more difficult for another.
If AIS works for you then get it. If pleasure boats need it so they can ask another boat what their intentions are then you need it. Me, I will continue to just avoid the other boat.

I do have Marine Traffic on my phone and have checked how accurate it is to vessels I can see. So there is that.

 

[DDW]

Avoiding the other boat is what AIS is all about, and there is nothing difficult about it. I don't know anyone who has it who has said, "this isn't useful". In my opinion, more useful than radar. If you have a modern MFD, then the cost for a receiver is <$200, a transponder <$500. Way less than radar. With a transponder, the other boat can avoid you, too. I've had ferries call me from around the corner (neither of us in sight of the other) to negotiate the pass. Through something like Active Pass, you know what they are going to do. Around some of the San Juans, you don't - might be doing a sudden turn into the terminal or steaming straight to somewhere else, sometimes there are 2 or 3 in a small area.

 

[Simi 60]

I like AIS for boats approaching from astern quarters.
And, also for the one click with a mouse, target cpa feature that OpenCPN provides

Makes it easy when things get a bit busy with multiple targets.
23 inch monitors are great for this.
https://opencpn.org/wiki/dokuwiki/d...manual:toolbar_buttons:ais:target_cpa_details

 

[twistedtree]

Yet another case of "I don't have it, so nobody needs it".

 

[SteveK]

Yet another case of "I don't have it, so nobody needs it".

If that is directed at me, show me where I said that.
This is another case of those that have it think everyone must have it.

 

[mvweebles]

Is there a benefit to standalone AIS vs integrated in something else (e.g. VHF...including Vesper VHF/AIS-B)? I'm in the process of installing a second VHF with Class B AIS (Simrad RS40-B). Granted, the upcharge for AIS is in the $600 range so not a savings, but my thinking is that AIS targets are not really readable on the small standalone screen.

I was on the fence for a full send/receive transponder. For the most part, I'm not sure I want to be seen, but figured its something I can turn on/off. Just wondering why the narrow discussion on standalone AIS.

Peter

 

[Portage_Bay]

Is there a benefit to standalone AIS vs integrated in something else (e.g. VHF...including Vesper VHF/AIS-B)? I'm in the process of installing a second VHF with Class B AIS (Simrad RS40-B). Granted, the upcharge for AIS is in the $600 range so not a savings, but my thinking is that AIS targets are not really readable on the small standalone screen.

I was on the fence for a full send/receive transponder. For the most part, I'm not sure I want to be seen, but figured its something I can turn on/off. Just wondering why the narrow discussion on standalone AIS.

Peter

Osprey69 the OP explains his request for stand alone AIS recommendations in post #25.

My preference is for stand alone components bridge real estate allowing. A single function failing or requiring update does not take the whole system down. AIS can be black box because I want the info displayed on plotter and radar. But I still prefer it to be stand alone.

 

[Jeff F]

I was on the fence for a full send/receive transponder. For the most part, I'm not sure I want to be seen, but figured its something I can turn on/off. Just wondering why the narrow discussion on standalone AIS.

Me too. When I first wanted AIS a few years ago I updated my VHF at modest cost and connected it to my MFD to display targets. Easy, and no splitter or second antenna needed.

It sounds like the OP isn't interested in broadcasting. What model is the old Garmin?

 

[Marco Flamingo]

Me too. When I first wanted AIS a few years ago I updated my VHF at modest cost and connected it to my MFD to display targets. Easy, and no splitter or second antenna needed.

It sounds like the OP isn't interested in broadcasting.

That's what I did. I only needed AIS to see who's out there so that I could miss those crazy goof balls. Receive only. I balked at the idea that it costs more than twice as much for AIS that transmits, so that those goof balls out there could see me (and miss me) (and contact me). Much as I want to think I'm the one that's always on the ball, maybe giving others a chance to see me and contact me directly is okay even if I have to foot the bill.

 

[mvweebles]

Osprey69 the OP explains his request for stand alone AIS recommendations in post #25.

My preference is for stand alone components bridge real estate allowing. A single function failing or requiring update does not take the whole system down. AIS can be black box because I want the info displayed on plotter and radar. But I still prefer it to be stand alone.

Understand the OP had a specific request as he has legacy equipment. Not questioning that. Just wondering about the general approach.

Ar some level, i understand the standalone idea to sequester a fault. But thinking back, I just don't remember a display instantly dying. I've seen cable failures. And washed out screens. And integration/interoperability issues due to complex systems. But not a lot of MFD total failures. As I think of all the "help needed" topics on TF, I just don't recall a request for failed navigation system. Many engine/propulsion issues, lots of head issues, electric system and charging issues, OpenCPN issues, but I just don't recall much in way of name-brand nav systems

Is there really a problem that needs to be solved?

Peter.

 

[Portage_Bay]

Yes based on experience I think it's a problem to consider..

I've experienced two screen failures. One was Furuno which I think very highly of. Even the best can fail. With a single screen on a fully integrated system gone dark I was left with nothing on that system. Fortunately the boat with the Furuno system had a full duplicate 2nd system. If a single stand alone component had lost its screen the other components would have still functioned.

On a system where the sat compass was the sole GPS source that failure took the plotter down. Admittedly that was a poor setup and should have had some redundancy. I did not set that boat up.

I've had too many network failures. Cabling or in the NMEA 0183 days the multiplexer. With 0183 some installers would daisy chain the components. A failure of one component could require fiddling with the wiring to get the rest working again depending upon what fed what. That's why I always installed or speced a multiplexer on 0183 systems. Multiplexer or not if it's all black box talking to single display you're not any better off than a MFD system.

It's worth noting these failures were on work boats running 24x7. In just a few weeks that will put more hours on everything than many recreational boaters will in an entire season cruising.

 

[Jeff F]

Much as I want to think I'm the one that's always on the ball, maybe giving others a chance to see me and contact me directly is okay even if I have to foot the bill.

I installed a class B transmitter this year. It was nice to be called by name by other boats in the fog.

 

[catalinajack]

I do not understand why, except for a bit of cost, when choosing to add AIS, anyone would go with a receive-only unit. Being seen, in my view, is as important as seeing others.

 

[Osprey69]

Big fan of redundancy for the reasons stated.

Really like the EM Trak Class B Model B900 for wireless to a tablet. Thank you Cigatoo. It can also integrate into an MFD as well.

 

[DDW]

I just don't remember a display instantly dying.

I had my nav station plotter (Raymarine E120) go dark about 1 hour out from the dock on the way to the Bahamas. Apparently they have a reputation for this, the fluorescent tube driver is at the limit of the components and burns up. Same trip, 15 minutes out of the dock the autopilot failed. All had been working fine for years. Could live without the plotter but could not live without the autopilot. So it does happen.

Redundancy is key, but also setting up your systems for graceful degradation and failure. For example, my autopilot is controlled by a head at the binnacle through the N2K network, but the wireless remote is wired directly to the pilot computer (rather than through the network) so that if the network goes down, can still engage the autopilot. And I have had that happen. There are usually a series of choices in connection topology which can greatly affect how graceful a failure is.

One of the reasons the Vesper 8000 is a good piece of equipment. Though connected to the N2K network, it also provides WiFi access to GPS and AIS data (and instrument data if so configured and available). If the whole rest of the system goes down, I can use my phone or laptop for navigation and AIS collision avoidance with only the Vesper running.

 

[continuouswave]

...this [a CLASS-A AIS] is what I wanted at the price point I wanted...

Be careful with Class-A AIS. According to one source, a CLASS-A AIS requires connection to:

--an external GNSS receiver
--an external heading sensor
--and external rate-of-turn sensor

Cite: https://www.shinemicro.com/ais-overview/

You may find that without all those external sensors the device may not transmit.

Also, be very wary of made-in-Asia bargain device that are not certified for sale or use in the USA.

 

[Iggy]

I installed a class B transmitter this year. It was nice to be called by name by other boats in the fog.

Yep! I installed a receiver about 8 years ago so I could see other boaters. But I found that other other boaters had a hard time contacting me when needed. So about 4 years ago went I installed the vesper 8000.

I will say, be careful on which antenna you use just for the AIS. They make a "broadband" antenna that can be used for both VHF and AIS. But a VHF antenna can not be use for AIS and an AIS antenna can not be used for VHF.

 

[continuouswave]

...be careful on which antenna you use just for the AIS. ...a "broadband" antenna...can be used for both VHF and AIS. But a VHF antenna can not be use for AIS and an AIS antenna can not be used for VHF.

Modern AIS SOTDMA transmitters are now allowed to transmit on four AIS channels. Previously there were only two AIS channels.

AIS1 and AIS2 are at the very high end of the VHF Marine Band, at 162-MHz.

AIS3 and AIS4 are at the low end of the VHF Marine Band, at 156.8-MHz.

A proper antenna for AIS transmission by a modern SOTDMA transmitter is now only a broadband antenna which can present a VSWR to the transmitter below 2:1 at both 156.8 and 162-MHz.

An "AIS" antenna tuned only for 162-MHz is no longer a good choice for AIS use if your AIS transmitter is modern and uses AIS3 and AIS4 in addition to AIS1 and AIS2 frequencies.

More about AIS3 and AIS4 at

https://continuouswave.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=6630

More about the use of long-range AIS reception (by satellites) is provided at

https://continuouswave.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1561

 

[diver dave]

Those are good writeups; thanks CW.