Replacing teak frames with true frameless windows

[SeaBoy]

I’m not quite sure why I can’t find good info on this. Maybe because I’m an idiot for thinking about do it! But I have the original teak window frames on my 1982 Albin 40 and on my journey to eliminating exterior teak, I would like to go with true frameless windows. Why can’t I rip out the teak frames and replace everything with one solid piece of acrylic tinted glass that is either mounted on the exterior or interior using a high quality adhesive/sealant?

If mounted on the interior, I would have to fair fiberglass in over the bulkhead space. but I have no problem with this.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. SB. Don't work harder. Work smarter. Why not simply prep and paint the teak frames? IF they're leaking, caulk around the perimeter and be done with it. Glass is a far superior glazing material than any plastic IMO. Won't deteriorate in the sun, won't scratch and can readily be tinted. It's a LOT of work to accomplish what you're proposing (replacement) AND I suspect you will lose when you re-sell.


Edit: Whatever "...high quality adhesive/sealant?" will only last so long and WILL have to be renewed in the future. I wouldn't want to even THINK about the difficulty of that.


My $.02.

 

[psneeld]

Go for it.

Can't be worse than what was there..... plans for opening ones?

I just used inexpensive RV clamp style with rounded corners for durability. Dressed the boat up, made the boat look newer but distant to remove the traditional look.

Wasn't going to spend a lot on an older boat and eliminated more teak. Suited me fine. Got a lot of compliments too.

 

[SeaBoy]

I agree it may be a lot of work but from what I’ve heard, many people accidentally break a lot of the teak when trying to repair them. I also don’t have a use for sliding windows in the main cabin. I like the more modern look. You can polish and repair acrylic. Also, I have to replace the glass anyways because it’s clear and I want to switch to tinted.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. SB. Paint the teak. Caulk up the sliding windows and tint the glass. You could probably have that accomplished in less than a week. More "modern look" is a different issue.



Have you ever tried to polish or repair acrylic? Have you seen how acrylic or almost any plastic degrades in the sun?


Your boat. Your choice.

 

[psneeld]

I agree it may be a lot of work but from what I’ve heard, many people accidentally break a lot of the teak when trying to repair them. I also don’t have a use for sliding windows in the main cabin. I like the more modern look. You can polish and repair acrylic. Also, I have to replace the glass anyways because it’s clear and I want to switch to tinted.

I got rid of the side sliding windows in the salon but the center forward and both aft windows I ordered top hinged openers. The doors I thought would give cross ventilation ( really wasn't enough much of the time) and the forward/aft openers for anchoring ( worked great and good idea as in light rain you could leave them open).

 

[tiltrider1]

So here is your short answer. Acrylic expands and shrinks to much to be used as a large frameless window. Polycarbonate will work but it scratches very easily and suffers from UV degradation. Glass is the best solution but you can’t drill holes in it and it doesn’t tolerate bending. There are ways to make all three products work but each one has pros & cons.

 

[Redhook98]

Prep and paint them. Over half of my exterior teak was eliminated this way. Seal it first with teak sealer. Then primer and paint. First two were taken 2 owners ago. (the boat is bad condition was when the PO got it in 2002). The current pic shows most of the teak painted over.

 

[jungpeter]

I’m not quite sure why I can’t find good info on this. Maybe because I’m an idiot for thinking about do it!

Hi SeaBoy,

No, not an idiot for thinking. More people should try it! However, there's no good info on this idea, because it's universally thought of as a really bad idea, for so many different reasons.

"The modern look" is accomplished on fiberglass boats, IN THE MOLD. Frame sockets are molded into the cabin sides, which enable frameless bedding of GLASS windows, either with or without tinting. As others have stated, acrylic (it's a plastic, not glass) is horrible for cabin windows, and totally unsuitable for this application. It crazes, scratches easily, and generally degrades in short order from UV and poor maintenance practices. Polycarbonate is not significantly better, as it also scratches almost by looking at it. Although stronger by far than acrylic, it's not viable for things like windshields that require routine wiping underway.

Removing your current teak window frames will likely leave you with exposed plywood core on your cabin sides, with (probably) a teak interior veneer. Simply plastering an acrylic window outside will leave a VERY unsightly window opening, now unprotected from interior moisture. Attempts to seal these edges in other-than a hack job will be real difficult and time consuming.

And slapping on an acrylic window inside may be the worst idea ever. Rain and spray will soon turn that plywood core into a rotten mush. And ditto the previous paragraph on attempting to seal these edges, x10.

Glass is the prefered choice for exterior windows on boats. Sorry, but having to deal with teak window frames on older boats comes with the territory. Custom aluminum or stainless window frames are alternatives to teak-just bring LOTS of money. And glass window tinting is easy-peasy.

Regards,

Pete

 

[slowjoe]

Removed teak frames and the glass .. then cut a new frame to fit into the existing opening that is 2” wide out of 1/2” plywood..fit that new frame flush to the exterior of the cabin …fiberglassed it all in and repainted … then installed new glass from inside cabin onto plywood frame with 3M double tape and caulked outside frame to glass .. routed outer edge of plywood for smooth look where glass fits frames…

 

[SeaBoy]

Slowjoe, do you have any photos of this? I think it sounds great as long as I seal the plywood

 

[mvweebles]

The only easy and cheap way to do this is as RT Firefly suggests - paint the teak.

There are indeed sealants to do this. Sika has a line for installing frameless windows in buildings. There are different formulations for glass and plastic, each with specific instructions on how thick to make the beads of caulking and how much of a gutter between the glass and the adjacent substrate. Sika recommends special solvents and cleaners to prep the surface. I guess you could route a rabbet around the perimeter of the window opening to set the pane, though wall thickness may be an issue (it would be on my Willard). Of note, many of the YouTube sailing channels feature catamarans in the 10-20 year old range. Seems glass replacement due to crazing of plexiglass or leaks is a common theme. And these were designed-in and professionally installed. Repair is extremely difficult.

Glass is best, either tempered or laminated. 1/4" tinted is surprisingly expensive. I recently replaced my windows on my 1970 Willard 36 and went with a combination of 3/8" for fixed panels and 1/4* for the moveable ones. The curved ones are plexiglass, as was the originals. The tempored panes were over $1500 for the glass alone. To install, the yard fabricated fiberglass frames with a deep rabbet/gutter into which stainless steel window track could be mounted. This needed to be finished - a decorative wood trim on the interior, and a thin fiberglass bezel on the exterior. It was very labor intensive but looks great.

If I were to do it again, I'd ring-up Marks Plastics in Corona CA. He's been making replacement clamp-in windows for boats for over 30 years. He knows his craft. While the windows are not cheap (mine would have been around $6k ---- 3-yeara ago), they are easy to install, require no trim either inside or outside, well built, and the best in the market.

Here is his contact info. He's old school - your best bet is to call and leave a message. He will call you back but it may take a day or so. Although he has an email address listed, it's the worst method of reaching him.

https://www.markplastics.com/contact-us

Good luck with whatever you do. In my opinion, this type of project risks exacerbating whatever problem you have if not done with a lot of forethought.

Peter

 

[Datenight]

When I needed to replace the aft full width slider and galley sliding window on the green boat, I used Aluminum 2000 in Lancaster, PA. Aluminum 2000 has since been bought by Pompanette https://pompanettellc.com/portfolio-tag/aluminum-2000/

These were aluminum framed units. I had them powder coated to match the paint. They seemed to be very good quality. They had me make a template and send it in from which they made the windows. It was worth it to drive to Lancaster from Noank, CT to pick them. Also a beautiful drive. They were relativity easy to install and never leaked.

Sorry I do not remember the price but it was better that anything else at the time. This was around 2008.

Rob

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Try to analyze the stresses in the cabin side to determine if you have even a slight amount of flexing. The screwed in and caulked frames are somewhat forgiving but if you glue in glass or lexan it will become part of the wall and have to take the same load. If you exceed the strength it will crack. If you look at sailboats with glued in windows, those lenses are actually part of the strength of the cabin top.

If you dertermine that your wall structure is strong enough, then you should be good to go. You may even to decide to create a channel around the perimeter of the opening to recess to lenses for a smooth look!

 

[RonR]

https://www.seamac.co.nz/frameless-windows/

This is the route I was thinking about going. I have plastic side windows now, they lasted about 5 years and now your cant see through them. They have been polished several times, but they are UV damaged from the inside.