Wifi boosters - why not?

[rsn48]

So I'll link to a product below that is a wifi booster, why can't we just use one of these at a marina to boost a signal. In an advert video, this product claims to automatically connect, so does that mean no password requirements, etc?

Obviously if boosting wifi were this easy and cheap we'd all be doing it so what's the flaw?

https://lovenewtech.co/rangextd/?ca...BZYYHVDETOdryyIe8FcLOIJEWDV_pcShoCSmwQAvD_BwE

 

[skyhawk]

I don't have personal experience using them but have done quite a lot of research

as I understand it, they boost the signal strength....make the signal louder to your device which might help the distance part of the issue...but that signal is still limited by how much data can fit through "the pipe". If everyone in the marina is streaming video, then you'll still be having problems.
and the other thing....if you're far enough out to have no signal, then there's nothing there to boost. In that regard, a directional antenna seems to perhaps be the better solution....

 

[pjtemplin]

In the 2.4GHz band, there are only three channels that can be used simultaneously. Technology like this can't listen on one channel and repeat the bits on the same channel (your computer would hear double; that's bad). So it's got to operate on two different channels. If you've got channel congestion already, this will make it doubly worse. You've also got to ponder how it knows which signal to boost. Yes, the 5Ghz band has more channel choices, but the distances are shorter.

 

[ranger58sb]

So I'll link to a product below that is a wifi booster, why can't we just use one of these at a marina to boost a signal.

Generally the easiest approach to marina WiFi is to just use an external WiFi adapter that has better antennas than what's in your laptop. (The antennas in this unit may indeed be better than what's in your laptop.)

Compare it against RadioLab's Wave Stealth or similar... or to their o2Air (which also acts as a router) and similar. Then the next step beyond that could be antennas mounted externally to the boat, high up, etc. (Ubiquiti, and similar.)

No, "automatically connect" doesn't mean no passwords.

-Chris

 

[tozz]

I don't have personal experience using them but have done quite a lot of research

as I understand it, they boost the signal strength....make the signal louder to your device which might help the distance part of the issue...but that signal is still limited by how much data can fit through "the pipe". If everyone in the marina is streaming video, then you'll still be having problems.
and the other thing....if you're far enough out to have no signal, then there's nothing there to boost. In that regard, a directional antenna seems to perhaps be the better solution....

This. Think of it like roads and highways. The booster helps with your local road access. But if the tributary roads or the highways are congested then it doesn't give you the huge improvement that lots of these devices claim.

I rely on Steve Mitchell over at seabits.com for a ton of information. His boat is covered in antennas from all the testing he does. He's a real wireless/wifi nerd.

The greatest improvement in wifi we've gotten is to switch to one of the high quality wifi booster/antenna that Steve recommends, the MikroTik Groove A 52 ac, connect to a Peplink router (MAX BR1 MK2), and make sure high quality cabling is used. We also improved cellular signal for data by moving up to a Poynting Omni 402 which Steve also recommends.

https://seabits.com/marina-wifi-hard/

-tozz

 

[mvweebles]

I use a rogue wave. Only moderately works.

 

[magna 6882]

We use a ubiquity bullet which has its own router and i also play with the microtik. I have a system in my boat and motorhome. The boats is a little more limited due to population but in the motorhome i can usually find a starbucks or mcdonalds or someone with an open connection.

 

[SteveK]

Maybe it would help.
I had a house upgrade bundle which increased my bandwidth from 100 to 150 using the same router/modem I already had. (We added phone and TV to the internet).
As the tech was leaving I asked don't I get a new modem/router to increase to 150. He made a phone call and said it is now 150. Sure enough when I checked the connection speed from before to after the same modem/router was now faster.

I do not see how a device after that modem/router would increase the speed if the bottleneck is a software choke controlled from their office.
It will take a weak signal and boost it but not faster than it is already capable. IMO

 

[Flatswing]

I have a microtik. It boost signals very nicely. Problem though is most marinas don't provide sufficient bandwidth for video streaming and you are lucky to get e mail/ basic web searches at many places. Marinas with On Spot are the exception well supplied with bandwidth & strategically placed antennas so reception & signal strength are not an issue (unless you want to poach from an anchorage nearby).

 

[magna 6882]

When i do a search with the bullet radio i get sometimes more then 50 access points. A marina may have several access points and the bandwidth used on each point and the channels may have different bandwidth availability. I can reach further out from the pack to find a less congested point especially early evening .

 

[STB]

In my mind, it is as much about having a real antenna and locating and orienting it for the best signal, often somewhere I'd rather not have my laptop, e.g. above the bimini, as anything else.

I have two...

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07X3KXK7Z/ref=cm_sw_r_em_apa_i_T2028KK410C9CAYQCK9Q?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07D1F2MPR?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Either work way better for me than nothing. I usually can't get marina wifi with out the help of one of them. The 1st one is omni directional, but will let me pick a specific access point. It has good days and bad days. It is basically unpredictable.

The second one is directional and scans for networks with a full pass, lets me choose, and then points at my choice. I have yet to figure out how it picks among the marina access points -- it doesn't ask me. It is more consistently mediocre. I can always get connectivity, and it is rarely excellent, but even more rarely practically useless. I've been meaning to investigate software updates, etc, to see if I can get more control of AP selection.

In general, it is easier to act as a gateway or repeater located in an area of good-enough signal and generate a new signal to push connecticity farther toward the user than it is to magically do better than protocol and somehow DSP bad signal into good. That just doesn't work.

Better antenna size, type, location, and orientation, and repeating or relaying from there, can help, though.

 

[boomerang]

As stated above, increasing the signal strength does no good if the data contained in the signal is spread so thin it's useless. I installed a Shakespeare/Ubiquiti single-band, 2.4 gHz signal booster on our boat a couple of years ago. It's installation took the almost non-existent signal from our house 250-300' away (with lot's of data in the bandwidth since we're the only ones using it) & boosted our reception back up to what it would be close to the source in my home office. It's not too much of a pain to change it to receive the signal of another wi-fi network but still involves some very minor reprogramming ,much easier done with a laptop or ipad than with our phones, due to the size of the characters. Honestly, I can't say that the booster usefulness has been all that helpful once logged onto most of the other marina or town networks that were available where we were berthed...it's always been kind of slow ,especially during certain times of the day where the data sharing was spread too thin to be useful. But my point is, it absolutely rocks at home while at our dock when we want phone (wi-fi calling) or internet onboard, neither of which we could have without the booster.

 

[FF]

Wont help us yet , but the slow growth of 5G along with about 10,000 communication sats being launched should lower the cost and raise the speeds of the internet.

 

[SteveK]

I also use my smartphone as a hotspot when wifi is iffy.

 

[stevemitchell]

I rely on Steve Mitchell over at seabits.com for a ton of information. His boat is covered in antennas from all the testing he does. He's a real wireless/wifi nerd.

The greatest improvement in wifi we've gotten is to switch to one of the high quality wifi booster/antenna that Steve recommends, the MikroTik Groove A 52 ac, connect to a Peplink router (MAX BR1 MK2), and make sure high quality cabling is used. We also improved cellular signal for data by moving up to a Poynting Omni 402 which Steve also recommends.

https://seabits.com/marina-wifi-hard/

-tozz

Thanks for the kind words!

For grabbing a remote WiFi signal, nothing beats a good outdoor device or antenna. That can be a MikroTik, as cited above and by others, or it can be a Poynting OMNI-496 WiFi antenna connected to a Peplink, Teltonika, CradlePoint (meh), or other router that supports WiFi as WAN/remote WiFi/WiFi bridge functionality - there's no standard word or setup for this last one.

The latter is what I use for my production network since that means one device does WiFi locally on the boat, grabs a remote WiFi signal, and also does multiple LTE radios. Having it all in one place means I can use some pretty slick features to fail over, combine, and do other things with each type of connection.

In terms of cellular boosters, I don't recommend them hardly at all anymore. They're only useful in areas where the signal is so low, nothing else will pick it up, and even then it will not be very usable for anything other than low bandwidth web browsing and the like. So many coastal cruising spots now have LTE signals even at the moderate level that it is far better to have a quality outdoor LTE antenna for 90% of the time. It will, of course, depend on where you are cruising though, and some areas are still slightly better for a booster, although they are getting smaller and smaller.

Cell boosters became very popular for RVs and the like, and specifically for boosting a cell phone that you were using to tether to for internet access, which is a low cost, easy way to get things online. That still works for a lot of people. Where it starts to break down is when someone moves that phone or shuts it off (!) or if the boat is bigger and the WiFi network the phone creates can't reach everywhere. With the advent of more streaming, more connected boat devices, and all of the other internet-depdendent things, more and more folks prefer a fixed cellular router of some sorts, which work better with just an outdoor antenna.

 

[SteveK]

For grabbing a remote WiFi signal, nothing beats a good outdoor device or antenna.

Steve, what is the source of the remote wifi signal that a booster targets, Marinas or is there other sources in the marine world?

In terms of cellular boosters, I don't recommend them hardly at all anymore.
I still have a 6+/- foot cell phone antenna I once used to boost cell signal. no longer of any use as it does not plug into current phones. I am glad to see you say what I have come to know that if there is a usable cell signal, it comes with internet too where remote wifi does not exist.
No cell service, no wifi mostly goes hand in hand

 

[stevemitchell]

For grabbing a remote WiFi signal, nothing beats a good outdoor device or antenna.

Steve, what is the source of the remote wifi signal that a booster targets, Marinas or is there other sources in the marine world?

In terms of cellular boosters, I don't recommend them hardly at all anymore.
I still have a 6+/- foot cell phone antenna I once used to boost cell signal. no longer of any use as it does not plug into current phones. I am glad to see you say what I have come to know that if there is a usable cell signal, it comes with internet too where remote wifi does not exist.
No cell service, no wifi mostly goes hand in hand

Primarily the source of the WiFi signals are at marinas. My home marina has a bunch of boats with Comcast/Xfinity routers which advertise a "free" WiFi network that you can login to if you have a home Comcast/Xfinity account (which I do). That's convenient and quite reliable/fast.

Most marina WiFi is crap (see the link @tozz posted that I wrote a few years ago) and not well maintained, so it can be pretty unreliable.

The other sources I use is actually open networks I randomly come across in the moderately populated areas I cruise. I've found some really good open WiFi networks in the San Juan Islands that have been great, but you have to know about them by looking around when you anchor. I'm the nerd that goes out in my dinghy around an anchorage with a phone and big antennas looking for them

 

[magna 6882]

On my boat system i have a 6db gain antenna on the mast so 25ft above the water and it runs to a switch that then feeds the boat with hotspots. Anyone on board will wee the live hotspot and can log on while the radio picks up the wifi signal. The only drawback is i need to lock onto the wifi source i want to use. That requires login into the radio/router and then using the built in software search for all available networks it sees on both bandwidths. It tells me the ip,signal strength,band width,and security. I usually filter by open networks then grab on with the most bandwidth.

I find in remote locations more networks are open. It i cant find any hotspots at all then i turn on my phone hotspot and the system will see it and i lock onto that AP so my hotspot then is broadcasted through the boats access point so no devises need to be changed.
Hope that makes sense.

 

[DrissZougari]

rsn48, do not confuse a WIFI range extender with a WIFI booster.
All you need is the MicroTik groove (the antenna) and a router to create your own network on the boat for all your instruments.

 

[Iggy]

I designed and manage the WiFi system at my yacht club. At marinas, there is a lot going on! VHF, radar, AIS and other WiFi signals. Plus what I found is that fiberglass is harder for WiFi signals to go though than wood.

My club has 170 slips. If I just take 70 boaters/families that are on there boats. Chances are the spouse is with them, now thats 140 users. Lets say half bring there one child. So now where hitting 175 users. Now you have social members/non-boaters in the club house or on the docks. So now your up to 190 to 200 users.

Now these numbers are a little high, but not hard to reach. Keep in mind, that everyone has a cell phone and even the kids over 12. Plus, you have the business end of the club seeking internet access too. So bandwidth must be controlled.

Depending on signal strength, it will play a factor in speed. The weaker the signal the speed will slow down. So an outside antenna can help.

The joke to this, members will say! "I can see the network on my laptop but it does not work. This system stinks!!" I try to explain, "Can your phone or laptop transmit the distance to the nearest WiFi antenna?" General I get, I don't now but I can see it. Now you have a one-way road. So that outside antenna can help!

Just to add. Some laptops and phones are better than others. Some have better antennas. Some are just newer and there speeds are better, as in 802.11b (11mbps) vs 802.g (54mbps).

The funny parts is, for $5 month I have unlimited data on my phone with 13 gigs per month as a hot spot. So for $5 and in cell service, I have very good internet speed and connection no matter where go. Which is something you may what to look into.

 

[FlyWright]

I have a Rogue Wave Wifi extender with a Cradlepoint router that has worked pretty well on FlyWright but open wifi has become less common (and less safe) and cellphone data is more convenient today.

In areas of no cell data and limited marina wifi like at the outer reaches of the dock, it fills the niche.

95% of the time, I use cell data on a hotspot for my boat and all is well...with some buffering and loss of signal in the CA Delta.

 

[Bellakins]

We opted not to go this route due to speed and security issues. Many marinas have slow wifi. They are also public. Because of this, we rely on using our cell phones as hotspots - much faster than most marinas. My husband and I have different carriers, so if one of us doesn't have a good signal, the other may have a better one.
Best,
Kathy
M/V Calypso

 

[BDofMSP]

Unfortunately at our marina, the only reliable cell signal from any carrier is the newly implemented (last spring) T-Mobile 5g. That's fine since we're customers, but there are zero routers that I'm aware of that support 5g connections, and there is no LTE reliable LTE signal. So we can use our phone as a hotspot for occasional web browsing, but not for daily business use with video calls and such, and not even for evening movie streaming. You burn through the data allocation darn quickly and then you're throttled. Doesn't go over well with the boss.

Our marina has a pretty good network, but suffers from the same bandwidth constraints that everyone here talks about. We worked from the boat the majority of the season last summer and had good internet from Monday afternoon until Thursday afternoon. Your Thursday meetings became audio only by after about 2:00 as people started showing up for the weekend. By Friday it was all dial in.

If anyone hears of new 5g routers, please let me know!
BD

 

[Capt Mike]

WiFi extender

rsn48, do not confuse a WIFI range extender with a WIFI booster.
All you need is the MicroTik groove (the antenna) and a router to create your own network on the boat for all your instruments.

I use the same MicroTik setup with a wireless router, I am very happy with it.

 

[quinsky]

We opted not to go this route due to speed and security issues. Many marinas have slow wifi. They are also public. Because of this, we rely on using our cell phones as hotspots - much faster than most marinas. My husband and I have different carriers, so if one of us doesn't have a good signal, the other may have a better one.
Best,
Kathy
M/V Calypso

I agree. Most marina wifi's are very slow and frustrating. I've used the Groove and Bullet but found that using cellular hotspot on my phone with a WeBoost cellular booster antenna works a lot better. It'
s also a lot simpler to connect. In situations when I cannot connect I read a book... on my iPad of course.

 

[BonesD]

My lap top and iphone have a hard time maintaining a connection with the marina wifi in the pilot house and will not connect at all when down in the salon. My smart tv is also located down below and won’t make a connection when facing East in my slip but will connect when facing west. The marina antenna is to the north. Beats me!
I set up my desktop pc in the pilot house. It gets a good solid connection and I now can use it as a hotspot for my phone, tv, and laptop down in the salon.
It is slow and intermittent at times so streaming video to the tube can be frustrating. At least now I don’t have to balance the iPhone on the dash at a weird angle to get iPhone updates which require a wifi hookup other than the AT&T service I pay for.
Binge watching wicked tuna just takes a little longer but in the end they almost always catch a fish.

 

[backinblue]

I've mostly given up on marina wifi unless I am at a transient marina that offers wifi and I will usually try it and it usually works well. Other than that, I use a hotspot on my cell phone and it works perfectly as long as there is a cell signal. Most carriers offer unlimited data these days so that is no longer a concern. Suggest trying that before boosters, antennas, etc.

 

[STB]

Most carriers offer unlimited data these days so that is no longer a concern. Suggest trying that before boosters, antennas, etc.

I use cellphone tethering a lot. Even with unlimited data plans, they limit throughout beyond a certain usage. T-Mobile would first clamp me down so tethering was useless. When I then switched to using video via my phone and other stuff via my laptop, I'd get clamped down later in the cycle-- but then couldn't even check email on my phone, and that was true 24x7, not just prime time.

Just switched to ATT, we'll see how it does...so far the clamp down seems more reasonable and tied to likely network usage levels.

 

[backinblue]

I used cellphone tethering a lot. Even with unlimited data plans, they limit throughout beyond a certain usage. T-Mobile would first clamp me down so tethering was useless. When I then switched to using video via my phone and other stuff via my laptop, I'd get clamped down later in the cycle-- but then couldn't even check email on my phone, and that was true 24x7, not just prime time.

Just switched to ATT, we'll see how it does...so far the clamp down seems more reasonable and tied to likely network usage levels.

I have ATT and formerly had Verizon. Never had these issues, even streaming video or doing live video calls. My boat is often my home office. Good luck.

 

[jrhodes777]

WIFI Extension

We installed a Wave DB Pro connected to a linksys router. This device significantly increased the range to connect to marina wifi. We have successfully connected up to 300 yards away from marina wifi antennas. However, connection service is always better in the evening because fewer people are connected the the marina wifi. Also installing a linksys router in our 46' boat provides excellent wifi coverage anywhere on the boat.