Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-29-2018, 05:27 AM   #101
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 20,980
"When passing boat is sufficiently longer and passed boat is doing hull speed or less that is true and a good plan! However, in my experience those two items do not often coincide."

That is a matter of understanding , training , and personal responsibility .

The physics of an uneventful safe pass are EZ , getting folks to do it is a different matter.
__________________
Advertisement

FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2018, 06:08 AM   #102
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 10,561
Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post
"When passing boat is sufficiently longer and passed boat is doing hull speed or less that is true and a good plan! However, in my experience those two items do not often coincide."

That is a matter of understanding , training , and personal responsibility .

The physics of an uneventful safe pass are EZ , getting folks to do it is a different matter.
"... understanding , training , and personal responsibility." Surely correct - but, a tall order to fill regarding two persons [boaters] unbeknownst to one another.
__________________

Art is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2018, 08:18 AM   #103
Senior Member
 
rclarke246's Avatar
 
City: Florida
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Lady Di
Vessel Model: 2012 Beneteau Swift Trawler 44
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 429
Courtesy is contagious, try it! Most folks out there are learning, though often subconsciously, so be a good teacher.

Chill out a bit and enjoy the water even more.

Thanks
rclarke246 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2018, 12:55 PM   #104
Veteran Member
 
City: Plantation, Fl.
Country: USA
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by cardude01 View Post
I know this has been discussed multiple times here, but these boaters who toss others around with their giant wakes continue to perplex me.

Latest example. Cruising through a narrow part of the ICW with very shallow 2’ banks, going about 7 knots. Lots of boat traffic going both ways even though not a weekend (Florida). I see the wakemaker with the multiple white nauticles coming, and try to get ready. Wakemaker is actually going at what looks like a fast idle so I pull back to about 4 knots to let him pass thinking that this is a considerate boater.

Ha! At about 20 yards behind my stern he nails it and starts to plow water and throws a massive wake. I don’t have time or the room in the channel to escape, so I roll helplessly while all manner of crap flys from the shelves, wife and kids stumble around, other small boats and kayaks bob around in the massive wake violently.

After the waves subside I get on the radio, using some of my most colorful F word combinations, and explain how I slowed down so he could make a pass at a fast idle and not rock my world like a hurricane. I did get a response from him. He said “roger that”. So maybe I made an impact, but I doubt it. I realize I should use my radio to let them know how to pass me in advance, and I’ve tried that, but sometimes they come up on me too quickly and I’m preoccupied trying to take evasive action, and many times they don’t respond to my polite radio calls (I’m always polite pre-wake).

So my question is always, why do they do this? I look like a sailboater with my mast, so I wonder if they do it on purpose to watch how I roll, but that doesn’t seem right. Who would do that? I keep marking it down to simple ignorance or oblivion to their surroundings, but I’m just wondering if there is a better explanation why many of these boaters throw the LARGEST POSSIBLE WAKE WHILE PASSING IN A NARROW CHANNEL.

(Rant over)
Why does it always seem to be a 30 foot or bigger Sea Ray?
dennismenace111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2018, 12:58 PM   #105
Senior Member
 
RossWilson's Avatar
 
City: Oakville
Country: Ontario, Canada
Vessel Name: Good Vibrations
Vessel Model: Mainship 34T
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 230
Wakemakers

No doubt in my mind that such people are ignorant narcissists. Innocently ignorant because they don't realize what they're doing to other boaters, or maliciously ignorant because such unkindness gives them kicks. Or they're simply narcissists and completely unaware of the adverse effects of their poor ship piloting.
__________________
Ross Wilson
Freelance Writer/Author
RossWilson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2018, 01:52 PM   #106
Senior Member
 
RickyD's Avatar
 
City: Long Beach, CA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Aquarius
Vessel Model: Californian 55 CPMY
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobH View Post
I have never understood why someone would have the radii down below instead of at the helm. Can someone explain that?
With a typical sailboat open cockpit it is protected from extreme weather and theft. When I was a sailboater mine was below but I could reach it from the cockpit, left hand on the tiller, right hand stretching for it. Once the mic was in hand I was fine.
__________________
Aquarius 1991 Californian 55 CPMY Long Beach CA
RickyD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2018, 02:14 PM   #107
Senior Member
 
RickyD's Avatar
 
City: Long Beach, CA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Aquarius
Vessel Model: Californian 55 CPMY
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by RossWilson View Post
No doubt in my mind that such people are ignorant narcissists. Innocently ignorant because they don't realize what they're doing to other boaters, or maliciously ignorant because such unkindness gives them kicks. Or they're simply narcissists and completely unaware of the adverse effects of their poor ship piloting.
Let me see if I can get myself in trouble here. I was a sail boater for 20+ years and since 2007, a semi-displacement trawler owner. Generally, let me repeat, generally I find sail boaters more cognizant than power boaters here on the west coast. I think the reason is that more power boat owners think they are like cars and just buy one, hope in, turn the key and go. Sail boat owners tend to be a bit more serious with the propulsion issues they need to deal with. Ok, I know there are many many great power boat owners so don't hit me too hard. I'm just trying out a theory here.
__________________
Aquarius 1991 Californian 55 CPMY Long Beach CA
RickyD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2018, 02:23 PM   #108
Newbie
 
City: Flagler beach
Country: United States
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1
I find more and more of these morons on the water. Most I believe are first time boaters that just haven't got a clue nor common sense. I see a lot of go fast boats here in Florida, especially down south with kids driving, probably daddy's boat with no consideration for anyone safety.
Coach Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2018, 03:05 PM   #109
Newbie
 
City: Key Largo,Fl.
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 2
most of the weekenders out there don't even know they make a wake once they've passed

Quote:
Originally Posted by cardude01 View Post
I know this has been discussed multiple times here, but these boaters who toss others around with their giant wakes continue to perplex me.

Latest example. Cruising through a narrow part of the ICW with very shallow 2’ banks, going about 7 knots. Lots of boat traffic going both ways even though not a weekend (Florida). I see the wakemaker with the multiple white nauticles coming, and try to get ready. Wakemaker is actually going at what looks like a fast idle so I pull back to about 4 knots to let him pass thinking that this is a considerate boater.

Ha! At about 20 yards behind my stern he nails it and starts to plow water and throws a massive wake. I don’t have time or the room in the channel to escape, so I roll helplessly while all manner of crap flys from the shelves, wife and kids stumble around, other small boats and kayaks bob around in the massive wake violently.

After the waves subside I get on the radio, using some of my most colorful F word combinations, and explain how I slowed down so he could make a pass at a fast idle and not rock my world like a hurricane. I did get a response from him. He said “roger that”. So maybe I made an impact, but I doubt it. I realize I should use my radio to let them know how to pass me in advance, and I’ve tried that, but sometimes they come up on me too quickly and I’m preoccupied trying to take evasive action, and many times they don’t respond to my polite radio calls (I’m always polite pre-wake).

So my question is always, why do they do this? I look like a sailboater with my mast, so I wonder if they do it on purpose to watch how I roll, but that doesn’t seem right. Who would do that? I keep marking it down to simple ignorance or oblivion to their surroundings, but I’m just wondering if there is a better explanation why many of these boaters throw the LARGEST POSSIBLE WAKE WHILE PASSING IN A NARROW CHANNEL.

(Rant over)
trdwnds47 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2018, 03:08 PM   #110
Newbie
 
City: Key Largo,Fl.
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 2
Most of the boaters out there don't know they wake once they pass you and gun it. they think being passed you , you won't be affected
trdwnds47 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2018, 03:42 PM   #111
Newbie
 
City: Mechanicsville
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Liquid Therapy
Vessel Model: Albin DC 36
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 1
Wakers

If I'm being overtaken and have not been contacted and don't see the boat on AIS, I make a general call on ch16 stating " This is Liquid Therapy, I am dropping back to idle". That often gets a call back from the overtaking boat and he slows. I know I'm not supposed to make a general statement like that on ch 16. But I know the C.G is recording ch 16 and if an incident is bad enough I have some confidence that my transmission was recorded. If he doesn't slow and I have time I turn 120º toward his wake until it's gonna hit my bow IF I HAVE TIME. If not enough time I turn away from the wake to let it hit squarely on the stern. I often am backing in reverse toward their wake as i'd be aground on the iCW even at Idle headed away from the channel. If a boat is coming at me head on direction and again doesn't appear to be slowing, I make the same transmission on ch16. If he isn't slowing I keep my 6kt speed up and start turning toward just aft of his stern and keep turning with my bow pointed just aft of his transom. This erratic maneuver is often enough to make the other guy think I'm nuts and he slows down. If he doesn't not slow down I pass close enough to his stern that there is little wake that close to his boat. Yea, probably not the best idea. But I never point my bow at his boat, it's always behind. I am a 36' trawler. Just returned to the Chesapeake after 6 months down ICW and back to the Chesapeake and Bahamas. Third trip doing that. Seen a lot of wake nuts. Mainly FL. boaters with more boat than I can afford. It seems all cruisers are very considerate. It's the weekend boaters that are in a hurry. We try to stay in a marina Saturdays and Sundays for that reason. Some captains, seem to cut off the AIS transponders when they are going to be reckless too it seems to stay incognito. I've been thinking of two dash cams for the boat. Probably not.

Brooke Smith "Liquid Therapy" 36 Albin
LiquidTherapy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2018, 04:23 PM   #112
Guru
 
City: Melbourne, FL
Country: USA
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,560
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
1. keep speed till nearly abeam the passed vessel.
2. chop throttles till rpm about what you need to be a couple knots faster than passed vessel.
3. let momentum carry you ahead of the vessel.
4. hopefully the passed vessel sees his move to cut in behind you over a not so large wake, you help by moving into his old path...
5. once in, passing vehicle can resume speed.
Make sure there are not two boats passing you cut over into his old path...
stubones99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2018, 04:28 PM   #113
Member
 
City: Collingwood ON
Country: Canada
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 16
Scuse me

There seem to be some misconceptions about sailors here… Surprising since so many trawler drivers are former sailors.
VHF radio's for sailors are often in the cabin, not the best place, but often the only available place for them to be safely installed. Sailors should have an outside speaker, or a ram Mike or portable VHF in the cockpit, but obviously not all do. Often, the radio can't be heard over the drone of the diesel engine. And in some areas, it's just too much of a pain to listen to all The idiocy on the airwaves. Yes, we are talking South Florida here.

Most sailors do have a handheld VHF… Unlike firefly and car here implied, we're not broke, or any more frugal than we need to be. Typically however the handheld is used in the dinghy, not in the big boat.

After 30+ trips down the ICW, I assure you, there are idiots in big powerboats who will deliberately slow down and create the largest possible wake to hammer a slower boat. The last one who did it to me spent over two hours explaining his behavior to the local water cop when I got hold of him. The one previous to him was a delivery captain up new coin jar, who ended up having to explain his behavior to the owner of the boat. I believe he lost his job for what he did to over a half dozen boats.

The best thing you can do is to hail be approaching boat and explain to him that you're going to slow down so that he can pass you slowly… Nine times out of 10 when you do that, they will slow down enough to give you a comfortable pass. If they don't, I suggest you contact the Coast Guard with a complaint including their vessel registration number if possible. Often these days, the Coast Guard will direct you to call local police enforcement… That is typically entirely useless unless you can give them enough information that they can follow up on the complaint with.

Unfortunately, on the water enforcement has all but vanished. Like someone else mentioned, if I am in a narrow part of the channel and I need the depth, I will take my half of the channel out of the middle, and the other individual will be forced to slow down. I have seen occasions where somebody has moved to one side or the other, and a powerboat has come by with a big wake and actually shoved that other individual aground on the side of the channel.
Canuck Sailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2018, 04:31 PM   #114
Member
 
City: Collingwood ON
Country: Canada
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 16
In my experience, I would say you are 100% correct. Sailors typically start with the small boat and learn the basics, I can take lessons, and graduate overtime to a large boat. The typical powerboat et as you noted, takes his checkbook to the local Marine store, buy is the biggest boat he can afford, sticks the key in and heads out to aggravate everybody else with his stupidity and lack of knowledge
Canuck Sailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2018, 04:53 PM   #115
Member
 
City: Collingwood ON
Country: Canada
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 16
In 30+ tips on the ICW, barges just have not been an issue in the way you've described. Slow down, and pass properly. Don't dream up bogus excuses
Canuck Sailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2018, 07:18 PM   #116
Dauntless Award
 
Wxx3's Avatar
 
City: Wrangell, Alaska
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Dauntless
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 - 148
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,799
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
A pass can be done without a huge wake (not no wake) pretty quickly even if the slower boat (say 7 knots or less) doesn't slow down.


If the passing boat keeps up its speed till nearly abeam you even with massive wake....you are moving so you stay in front of it...then the passer slows quickly...the bow falls and the stern rises so the wake diminishes....the momentum and a bit of throttle will get them past to where you just cut in behind them and as long as they are far enough past or you get in behind them quickly...its no musss or fuss.


the worst is when things go well but they throttle up just off your bow and dig a big hole that now you are up to and fall sideways into.
This explains it.
It's far too complicated for the average boater.
It also confirms my sense that there are a lot of stupid boaters out there.

And virtually none of them read anything on TF.
Wxx3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2018, 07:42 PM   #117
Guru
 
healhustler's Avatar
 
City: Longboat Key, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bucky
Vessel Model: Krogen Manatee 36 North Sea
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,989
I was following Cardude during one of those mega-wakes provoked by a 60 + Marlowe doing about 12 knots, not able to get on plane, but just at that point where he was probably at full power but looking at the sky.

We had watched create havoc with some other boats before he caught up to us in the narrowest part of the ICW near Cortez, FL. We positioned ourselves so passing was too risky with the shallows looming on both sides, but we knew he'd be coming as soon as it widened out. Unfortunately, the broader area we were reached when he decided to pass was still only about 120 ft. wide, making a cut through his wake nearly impossible for a couple of slothy trawlers like ours. Still, we tried.

I pulled back to idle so it would be obvious, but I guess he didn't get the message. I was at the extreme right and cut hard into his wake avoid being forced aground but I could only get maybe 30 degrees under full throttle before his wake struck my beam, forcing the boat full abeam to collect the next hit. It was all I could do with thruster, throttle and rudder to finally get behind him. I didn't even get straight enough to celebrate before we saw Cardude in the exact same position, at one point we could see him at a 40 degree or more heel at the very top of the first wave, exposing his entire keel and rudder, and nearly taking out a channel marker while attempting to perform the same maneuver we tried. Like us, there wasn't room to take it on the aft quarter or do anything but get a good ass kicking.

All in all, getting mega-waked is almost a regular event in a day of cruising in SW Florida, but in the Miami to West Palm Beach area, multiply that by the number of super yachts and sport-fishers in the hands of some first timers with no training and even less conscience.
__________________
Larry

"When life gets hard, eat marshmallows”.
healhustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2018, 07:57 PM   #118
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 19,293
Quote:
Originally Posted by healhustler View Post
I was following Cardude during one of those mega-wakes provoked by a 60 + Marlowe doing about 12 knots, not able to get on plane, but just at that point where he was probably at full power but looking at the sky.

.
Did you try to reach the Marlow by radio?

The just below plane is the worse of all situations and just stupid. One thing I've found is that many associate speed and wakes and think low wake means slow. Well, it means slow to a certain point and then the wake gets it's worse size. I know we've been cursed when at high speed and we created absolutely no wake at all for those involved. They yelled "Slow the F down" not realizing that had we done so, it would have waked them. We responded to one yelling on the radio by asking if we waked them and they said no but we were still going too fast. We then asked if they really felt we should slow to half that speed and give them 3' wakes? They didn't respond to that question. We've make a lot of effort to understand our wake patterns at various speeds and we do watch just to make sure we weren't wrong.

As to superyachts and sportfish, I don't find many superyachts or megayachts being problems as, especially in tight quarters, they're running slow. Now if you mean the Sunseeker, Riva, Princess types, many suffer from running below plane and causing problems similar to the Marlow. Perhaps that's something they should be trained on at delivery. Sportfish and center consoles are problems taking off and coming to a stop often. Once on plane, they're out of the way.

Every boat can create problems for other boats and ultimately it's consideration for your fellow boater.
BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2018, 08:39 PM   #119
Guru
 
cardude01's Avatar
 
City: Victoria TX
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bijou
Vessel Model: 2008 Island Packet PY/SP
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,713
Wakemakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by healhustler View Post
I was following Cardude during one of those mega-wakes provoked by a 60 + Marlowe doing about 12 knots, not able to get on plane, but just at that point where he was probably at full power but looking at the sky.

We had watched create havoc with some other boats before he caught up to us in the narrowest part of the ICW near Cortez, FL. We positioned ourselves so passing was too risky with the shallows looming on both sides, but we knew he'd be coming as soon as it widened out. Unfortunately, the broader area we were reached when he decided to pass was still only about 120 ft. wide, making a cut through his wake nearly impossible for a couple of slothy trawlers like ours. Still, we tried.

I pulled back to idle so it would be obvious, but I guess he didn't get the message. I was at the extreme right and cut hard into his wake avoid being forced aground but I could only get maybe 30 degrees under full throttle before his wake struck my beam, forcing the boat full abeam to collect the next hit. It was all I could do with thruster, throttle and rudder to finally get behind him. I didn't even get straight enough to celebrate before we saw Cardude in the exact same position, at one point we could see him at a 40 degree or more heel at the very top of the first wave, exposing his entire keel and rudder, and nearly taking out a channel marker while attempting to perform the same maneuver we tried. Like us, there wasn't room to take it on the aft quarter or do anything but get a good ass kicking.

Larry, I wish you could have gotten a photo with my keel and rudder showing, but I know you were battling turbulence back there. Some posters have said something to the effect of “stow your crap better, you’re gonna get waked, take it like a man” blah blah blah, but I don’t think they understand how bad some of these wakes are. We are not talking about regular wakes here, but big-ass mega wakes that are actually dangerous to other boaters. I came across from the Bahamas last year and in the Gulf Stream we hit some unsettled weather and big, confused seas, and we never heeled over anything like we have in the ICW. It’s ridiculous and dangerous to get waked so bad in such close quarters.
cardude01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2018, 08:50 PM   #120
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 11,432
Healhustler tells us the whole story, independently viewed, and unfortunately also experienced. A very nasty dangerous situation fully illustrated, well dealt with by experienced TF members. One poster ought apologize to cardude.
__________________

__________________
BruceK
2005 Integrity 386 "Sojourn"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×