Vacuuflush & Peggie Hall

[rgano]

I gave to agree. I helped a boat buddy with his Tiara... a supposed high quality builder with his VF.
Tiara installed it in an unaccessible location with NO consideration for maintenance. They apparently don't understand the components or systems they are installing. Tiara rep told owner to cut into the teak & Holly flooring and they would send material to repair... of course all DIY by owner or at owners expense.
We finally were able to get another younger/ more nimble helper to remove the whole system and relocated it for easy service. A simple move Tiara could / should have considered if they understood the system and cared about owners.

I see this ALL OVER this Pilot.

 

[rgano]

You wouldn't be the first person on the list...they've already hired me for my $500/day fee plus travel expenses. When would you like to schedule your job?



--Peggie

Hey, that's vessel delivery type money, there, Peggy. Come to think of it there may well be a close parallel.....

 

[OldDan1943]

That's a bargain. You have to charge more than that. I'd pay that much for a general boat maintenance guy to come up from say Stuart, FL just to knock out some of my to-do list -- and he wouldn't be a national expert on boat sani systems. Heck, I offered that much to a local aluminum welder for one bow rail repair and he turned me down, too busy.

I offered a guy $5,000 plus plane ticket and hotel for one day maybe 2 days of electronics work. I guess he is not hungry enough.

 

[rgano]

I offered a guy $5,000 plus plane ticket and hotel for one day maybe 2 days of electronics work. I guess he is not hungry enough.

Have you tried me? I'm great with plug n play, but beyond that, well.....

 

[OldDan1943]

Have you tried me? I'm great with plug n play, but beyond that, well.....

I have 0183 to convert to today's standards, 2000, without disturbing the readings to the VesselView, piggy back off of them and feed the output to analog gauges mounted on a brand new (no holes) dash.
I have all the necessary gauges etc.

 

[rgano]

I have 0183 to convert to today's standards, 2000, without disturbing the readings to the VesselView, piggy back off of them and feed the output to analog gauges mounted on a brand new (no holes) dash.
I have all the necessary gauges etc.

That is well beyond something I would attempt on somebody else's boat. Maybe on my own if I had a mind to try, but with uncertain results, neve on another's. Good luck.

 

[OldDan1943]

That is well beyond something I would attempt on somebody else's boat. Maybe on my own if I had a mind to try, but with uncertain results, neve on another's. Good luck.

Ah, that "good luck" is more than I have heard, "Nope"

 

[Spinner]

I have had my current boat for 3 1/2 years and it’s now about 19 years old. Two vacuflush heads. I had the seals and duckbill valves replaced right away, just to be proactive. No troubles yet (knock on wood)!

 

[cardude01]

I have 0183 to convert to today's standards, 2000, without disturbing the readings to the VesselView, piggy back off of them and feed the output to analog gauges mounted on a brand new (no holes) dash.

I have all the necessary gauges etc.

You need to try to find a kid like Oliver. He was a young electronics whiz learning his craft and needing some experience, so I paid him to redo some things on my boat about 8 years ago. Did a great job.

Wonder what happened to Oliver? He’s not a kid anymore I guess.

 

[slowgoesit]

You wouldn't be the first person on the list...they've already hired me for my $500/day fee plus travel expenses. When would you like to schedule your job?



--Peggie

Peggie, I will have to settle for the phone call! I'll try and speak to you this week on your schedule, but not sure what MY schedule will be for the next few days . . . .

 

[Slowmo]

I'm surprised at the amount of emotion around VF systems. Ours is an old system but seems to be reliable. Given the widespread use of the systems I would expect there to be more complaints than systems that are less common or newer. In any case, we're doing a holding tank change (to eliminate an old Mansfield processing system) and installer seem to want change out the VF. I'm not sure why I'd do this if it is working well.

 

[CCS]

Good evening,

I was reviewing this thread because I am experiencing a cycling/loss of vacuum issue with my VS2 Vacuflush. System has worked great for ten years but after I replaced the duckbill valves, I seem to have a leak. I have tightened fittings, replaced the pressure switch, installed a new holding tank filter and still have the pump cycling every 10 minutes or so. I am wondering if you could recommend a technician to work on the Vacuflush at the Oak Harbor Marina (where I live aboard the boat). Thanks for your great suggestions on Vacuflush maintenance. And, I would appreciate any recommendations.

 

[syjos]

Have you called Marine Sanitation in Seattle for advice on your leak? Sonia, Tucker and Leah are very knowledgeable and very helpful. 800 624 9111

Marine Sanitation has a list of PNW authorized techs on their website; https://marinesan.com/vacuflush/vacuflush-pacific-northwest-dealer-list/

Techs on the list have received training from Marine San and Sealand/Dometic.

I am a Dometic/Sealand dealer but no longer have techs and do not perform service or installs. Sales and consultation only.

 

[catalinajack]

I'm surprised at the amount of emotion around VF systems. Ours is an old system but seems to be reliable. Given the widespread use of the systems I would expect there to be more complaints than systems that are less common or newer. In any case, we're doing a holding tank change (to eliminate an old Mansfield processing system) and installer seem to want change out the VF. I'm not sure why I'd do this if it is working well.

No emotion, just facts. Vacuflush systems are prone to problems, some very vexing whereas a Raritan Marine Elegance is virtually bullet proof and quite simple to fix if something fails. Many threads can be found seeking advice on how to fix Vacuflush probems. In seven years frequenting this forum, nearly daily, I have never seen a complaint aired about a Marine Elegance.

 

[83GB]

I mentioned this before but my best lesson learned is to isolate major parts of the system. A couple of rubber stoppers of various sizes helped me... Start by disconnecting the sanitary hose that enters the vacuum generator tank. Put a stopper in the entry fitting to the vacuum generator tank.... If the pump keeps pumping or pumps/stops then minutes/hours/days later starts up again, there is a leak in that portion of the system. If that part holds vacuum, reconnect the sanitary hose and put a smaller stopper in the small hole under the ball valve in the toilet itself. If that holds vacuum, the problem is in the upper part of the toilet.

Recently, I literally disassembled the entire toilet and inspected all seals, pulled/cleaned/inspected the vacuum switch, tightened ALL hose clamps, replaced duckbills and I still had a leak... Then I decided to take the more scientific approach to use the rubber stoppers to isolate the problem. Turns out the vacuum generator was fine and held vacuum without pumping to 3 days. After placing the stopper in the small hole in the bottom of the toilet, I found the pump would cycle every few hours. So it was not the ball seal or the shaft seal on the foot pedal. It turned out to be the 30 year old sanitary hose connecting to the back of the toilet. The hose was hard as a rock and, apparently, tightening the hose clamps did no good. So I took a heat gun and warmed/softened the hose, reattached it to the hose fitting on the back of the base of the toilet. The system now has held vacuum without pumping for two weeks.

 

[Bmarler]

Good evening,

I was reviewing this thread because I am experiencing a cycling/loss of vacuum issue with my VS2 Vacuflush. System has worked great for ten years but after I replaced the duckbill valves, I seem to have a leak. I have tightened fittings, replaced the pressure switch, installed a new holding tank filter and still have the pump cycling every 10 minutes or so. I am wondering if you could recommend a technician to work on the Vacuflush at the Oak Harbor Marina (where I live aboard the boat). Thanks for your great suggestions on Vacuflush maintenance. And, I would appreciate any recommendations.

Are you losing water in the bowl too? If not there’s really only a few places to be losing vacuum. Sometimes if you spray a little water on the fittings you can hear them squeal a little, that can help track down the area.
You’ve already looked at the usual problem areas, but is it possible you missed a problem during assembly? I’ve seen the duckbill valves get distorted (twisted) when tightening the fittings causing leaks.
It’s more rare, but it’s possible to have a leak at the pedal spring cartridge too. If you use a cone rubber plug in the opening below the ball flush valve you can see if the cycling stops. Even better would be to have a vacuum gauge in the cone so you can actually read the vacuum and how fast it’s dropping.
It there any sign of leakage around the pump bellows?

 

[Dougcole]

I've been holding off on commenting in this thread because I will admit, a year or so ago my VF system made me very, very angry and I let that be known on TF. In perusing this thread I noticed that a few users are saying that their issue was the funnel, which is the black plastic piece below the head which the vacuum hose attaches to. That turned out to be my problem (along with needing a new pedal kit) as well, though on mine there were NO visible cracks or defects of any kind, even under a strong light with a magnifying glass. It took me a long time, and a lot of new parts to find that, despite working with the VF distributor for South Florida who is very knowledgeable and helpful.


I used the rubber stopper trick (tapered wood plugs in my case) to get close to the problem, but it did not isolate it completley.



Therein lies the problem with VF, in my opinion. There really isn't an effective way to pin down a vacuum leak. You can sort of isolate it, but from there the only thing to do is start replacing components, and that gets expensive very quickly. Especially if you are paying a tech to do it for you. There are just too may points of potential failure.


I also don't like that the generator takes up space in my engine room.


That said, my unit has worked perfectly for the last 18 months or so.


Doug

 

[RickyD]

I mentioned this before but my best lesson learned is to isolate major parts of the system. A couple of rubber stoppers of various sizes helped me... Start by disconnecting the sanitary hose that enters the vacuum generator tank. Put a stopper in the entry fitting to the vacuum generator tank.... If the pump keeps pumping or pumps/stops then minutes/hours/days later starts up again, there is a leak in that portion of the system. If that part holds vacuum, reconnect the sanitary hose and put a smaller stopper in the small hole under the ball valve in the toilet itself. If that holds vacuum, the problem is in the upper part of the toilet.

Recently, I literally disassembled the entire toilet and inspected all seals, pulled/cleaned/inspected the vacuum switch, tightened ALL hose clamps, replaced duckbills and I still had a leak... Then I decided to take the more scientific approach to use the rubber stoppers to isolate the problem. Turns out the vacuum generator was fine and held vacuum without pumping to 3 days. After placing the stopper in the small hole in the bottom of the toilet, I found the pump would cycle every few hours. So it was not the ball seal or the shaft seal on the foot pedal. It turned out to be the 30 year old sanitary hose connecting to the back of the toilet. The hose was hard as a rock and, apparently, tightening the hose clamps did no good. So I took a heat gun and warmed/softened the hose, reattached it to the hose fitting on the back of the base of the toilet. The system now has held vacuum without pumping for two weeks.

I also had a vexing problem with my aginr Vacuflush on one toilet. I could not get the base flange to seal. I then bought a new taller base that did not have a flang and solved the flange. been great for a year now. Holds vacuum for over a week.

 

[Comodave]

I agree completely about the issues regarding leaks on a Vacuflush head. Unfortunately our new boat has one in it. And Formula buried the generator in a very inaccessible spot. I can’t imagine working on it where it is located like you guys have been working on yours. We are doing a ton of work on our new boat this winter and will not be able to get to the head but next winter I will be replacing the Vacuflush with a Marine Elegance to head off potential problems with the Vacuflush. It is just about impossible for me to get in there and work on it. Where we live there isn’t anyone to pay to work on it either. With the Marine Elegance everything that possibly could need work on is in the head itself. The bad thing is that I don’t think I can even get to the vacuum generator well enough to remove it so I will just plug up the hoses and leave it there.

 

[Osprey69]

We have two Vacuflushes. For the last 2 months of living aboard, the aft pump cycles on for about 5 seconds once or twice a day. I thought I would wait and see if it degrades any further and if not, need I replace the duckbills yet? Not terrible to get to, but not a very agreeable job either.

 

[Hippocampus]

We lived with an marine elegance for 8 years as cruisers. We had repetitive issues with effluent backing up into the bowl. Installation was the fault. In order to totally prevent siphoning exhaust was bought up as high as possible in the locker behind the head. It was a loop with a vacuum break at the top. Still there was a standing column of ~4’ before the anti siphon valve. Unless both the tri leafed and bi leafed jokers were perfect water would back up. To make matters worth exit from the head was a horizontal 90 degrees. Then ran under the sink/vanity then behind the head before going up to the locker with the loop. Any time you needed to work on the head boat yoga was involved. Also needed to disconnect unit from attachments and tilt it forward to get at its guts.
To avoid problems learned to only use RO water for that head even on passage. (Prior would use salt on passage) Separate lidded bucket for TP. Once a month olive oil. Even doing that would replace both valves ~2/year. So any device you pick can have troubles if installation is incorrect.
Other head was old school mechanical. No issues ever but it religiously got >15 strokes after use. Using salt water in that didn’t matter.
Yes I would recommend the elegance over anything else. What I really want is an incinerating head that’s actually practical on a small boat. Would solve so many environmental and other issues.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

For the last 2 months of living aboard, the aft pump cycles on for about 5 seconds once or twice a day.

Apparently the "night switch" concept isn't used on most VF systems? We have a switch right next to the head. The VF circuit breaker is usually left on when we are aboard, but the vacuum pump is left off. Enter the head, pull the switch, vacuum builds while doing your business, flush and let it cycle enough to allow the effluent to reach the holding tank, turn off VF switch. No random cycling ever because it isn't left on.

I have been using sodium percarbonate every couple of flushes for odor elimination. I read that it may also keep things (like duckbills) clean. So far, so good.

I'm not sure a constant maximum vacuum would be good for the seals (or other VF parts). Why leave things under sustained stress for hours and days? It's not like I absolutely must have immediate full vacuum upon entering the head. Maybe my digestive system is different than others. If I needed continuous full vacuum in the head 24/7, I would call a doctor, not a plumber.

 

[CCS]

No- not losing water in the bowl. I’ve listened for leaks around the lower seal but detect none.

 

[HeadMistress]

...It turned out to be the 30 year old sanitary hose connecting to the back of the toilet. The hose was hard as a rock and, apparently, tightening the hose clamps did no good. So I took a heat gun and warmed/softened the hose, reattached it to the hose fitting on the back of the base of the toilet. The system now has held vacuum without pumping for two weeks.


Words fail me...


--Peggie

 

[Comodave]

I think I would have gone ahead and put new hose in.

 

[SteveK]

I think I would have gone ahead and put new hose in.

But, I would still warm it up to set the clamp.

 

[Bmarler]

But, I would still warm it up to set the clamp.

Definitely. I’m with Dave too, replace that thirty year old hose. I changed out some that were ten years old and they’d grown almost completely closed. These were outlet hoses so not the same velocity as the vacuum hoses, but wow, I was surprised.
Always warm the new hoses with a heat gun to set them, it makes all the difference.

 

[Bmarler]

No- not losing water in the bowl. I’ve listened for leaks around the lower seal but detect none.

Time to try the stopper in the hole under the flush ball. If that holds, change the shaft cartridge. If it doesn’t hold, recheck the outlet jokers. And as has been mentioned, warming the hose with a heat gun where you place the clamps helps insure a tight seal. Another thought was to put a rubber stopper on the inlet to the generator. That would eliminate the whole toilet and inlet hose.
The whole key to troubleshooting a vacuflush is isolating sections to find the weak spot.

 

[CCS]

Thank you for all of the helpful comments. I will start isolating components as recommended and see what I can learn. Heating the hoses and reclamping also seems like a good idea.

 

[Osprey69]

Apparently the "night switch" concept isn't used on most VF systems? We have a switch right next to the head. The VF circuit breaker is usually left on when we are aboard, but the vacuum pump is left off. Enter the head, pull the switch, vacuum builds while doing your business, flush and let it cycle enough to allow the effluent to reach the holding tank, turn off VF switch. No random cycling ever because it isn't left on.

I have been using sodium percarbonate every couple of flushes for odor elimination. I read that it may also keep things (like duckbills) clean. So far, so good.

I'm not sure a constant maximum vacuum would be good for the seals (or other VF parts). Why leave things under sustained stress for hours and days? It's not like I absolutely must have immediate full vacuum upon entering the head. Maybe my digestive system is different than others. If I needed continuous full vacuum in the head 24/7, I would call a doctor, not a plumber.

I agree about not needing instant-on and 24/7 stressing of systems, but we are not set up with a night switch so its a bit more cumbersome. Perhaps others, especially Peggy, could chime in on this topic?

Thanks in advance.