Are there really any bad boats?

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Comodave said:
I wonder why they didn’t stop the launch when the boat was starting to go over before it was fully afloat? I would think that pulling it back out might have been a better idea...
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BandB said:
Or, perhaps not if you knew you couldn't afford to finish it anyway and knew it had significant issues. If you're going to close anyway, might prefer the insurance money to finishing the boat.

That's why I mentioned ethics of builders in bad boat situations.
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Toki said:
I believe our beloved "Flipper" up here in the PNW might qualify as a bad boat:

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Do you know why it tipped over. bad launch or? Was it weighted port side never to float upright? To me it looked like the stern floated off lifting from the rails before the boat could be evenly in the water.
 
There was a lot of discussion at the time and most authorities agreed that was the riskiest time of launching: when the stern was floating and the bow was not. That’s why so many ships are launched at high speed down the ways: to get past that transition point ASAP.
 
I wonder... Why not launch bow first? Wouldn't that mean you could stabilize the stern (wider) until almost the entire boat is in the water?
 
Woodland Hills said:
There was a lot of discussion at the time and most authorities agreed that was the riskiest time of launching: when the stern was floating and the bow was not. That’s why so many ships are launched at high speed down the ways: to get past that transition point ASAP.
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Thanks. I think it was human error, it was a slowmo launch. They must have floated the boat during the rescue process and if it stood upright?
But as suggested, maybe an insurance claim was the plan.
 
Memory is fading. some 40 years ago I assisted with a launch of a 110 foot newly built boat. The hull was built elsewhere, brought to marina and pulled out and refloated from the regular boat launch ramp without incident.
Several more large vessels were built and continued to launch the same way. Maybe I missed hydraulics adjusting to support it until it was all in.
 
O C Diver said:
The steel in the hull plating of the Titanic was found to be too brittle which contributed to the hull failure. Operator error in the form of excessive speed greater than the conditions allowed, was probably what made the collision fatal.

Ted
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The cold temperature also made it more brittle...

At least it caused the world to write SOLAS regulations to prevent it from happening again. Safety rules are written in blood.
 
I suspect other ships were built similar to Titanic and served without disaster. The technology of Titanic was not the root cause of failure. The quest for the blue riband was.
 
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Greetings,
Mr. b. The quest was the cause for the accident, bad design was the cause of the sinking and loss of life. As I mentioned, watertight bulkheads not extending high enough and too few lifeboats (# of lifeboats was designed out because the large number planned "ruined" the looks). As mentioned, the brittle iron didn't help any.
 
Even with new boats I'd say you really won't know if there are some 'less good' ones for 15-20 years. It can take time for design or build problems to show up. Of course it all depends on the intended use and how the boat fulfills it's designed purpose. However I do know some professional skippers that have some pretty strong opinions even about some new boats, mainly based on poor weather capability. One of the ones I've heard a couple times as being, if not bad then certainly not good, is cited in a post above.
 
Wooden boats were launched quickly so they could be towed away from the launch site (away from the owner) so pumps could be brought on board and push boxes of sawdust shoved under the hull could slow the leaks.
 
Titanic had two sister ships. Both served for some time, one was even in a collision. I suspect that the bulkhead design and riveted plates were the same. One ship even used parts from Titanic while she was building.

By today's standards their design had many faults but I still contend that the cause of the tragedy was operator error.
 
Generally speaking I would say that all boats are bad boats. Some are just less bad than others. Some are almost not bad at all. It is going be difficult to get someone to come out and name a boat specifically as they would not want to offend some owners. It is also possible that they are wrong. Price is not absolute, but I have heard that you often get what you pay for, which is why I am having such a hard time finding a boat. I want a tremendous boat for nothing. The nice boats that have become affordable are just not of a design that I can properly use (FDMY, and some older higher maintenance boats).
 
RT Firefly said:
Greetings,
Bad boat?


iu



Personally, not bad but not a real looker perhaps? I wish I could find one but they are scarcer than hen's teeth.
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This boat has always interested me. I did some research years ago. Would love to board one and do a sea trial.

EDIT: Some for sale...

https://www.smartmarineguide.com/boats-for-sale/cargile-cutter

https://boats-from-usa.com/not-specified/cargile-cutter-169064
 
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Are there any really bad boats?

YES! I know of one. Back in the 1980’s I worked for Avanti motor company in Y-town Ohio making the Avanti car. Someone got the bright idea that they could make boats as well. :rofl:

Well they built 10 of them and they look really nice after me and my co-work painted them and they were outfitted.

They shipped them out to Cali and placed them in the water at a marina for a photo shoot, set for the next morning sunrise.

When we showed up at the marina the next morning, all 10 boat were sitting on the bottom of the marina. :facepalm:
The transom seams leaked from the water pressure and the weight of the outboards.

These 10 boats were rebounded and sold. Out of the ten suckers that bought them, 7 of them sank again from the same issue. The other 3 leaked as well but did not sink that I know of. :banghead:

Needless to say the lawsuits were flying and Avanti motor company did not make any more boats!

So if you run across an Avanti boat, made by Avanti motor company, run away from it or go swimming. :eek:

Cheers

H.
 
hfoster said:
Are there any really bad boats?

YES! I know of one. Back in the 1980’s I worked for Avanti motor company in Y-town Ohio making the Avanti car. Someone got the bright idea that they could make boats as well. :rofl:

Well they built 10 of them and they look really nice after me and my co-work painted them and they were outfitted.

They shipped them out to Cali and placed them in the water at a marina for a photo shoot, set for the next morning sunrise.

When we showed up at the marina the next morning, all 10 boat were sitting on the bottom of the marina. :facepalm:
The transom seams leaked from the water pressure and the weight of the outboards.

These 10 boats were rebounded and sold. Out of the ten suckers that bought them, 7 of them sank again from the same issue. The other 3 leaked as well but did not sink that I know of. :banghead:

Needless to say the lawsuits were flying and Avanti motor company did not make any more boats!

So if you run across an Avanti boat, made by Avanti motor company, run away from it or go swimming. :eek:

Cheers

H.
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Christ H! - All 10 on the bottom in the AM sounds like a KO to me! - LOL Art

:speed boat: :dance: :lol:
 
Art said:
Christ H! - All 10 on the bottom in the AM sounds like a KO to me! - LOL Art

:speed boat: :dance: :lol:
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Art me Irish Bro.

Christ was one of the words that was used by the big shots when we showed up. Along with a few other words as well! :rofl:

I still can remember the look on the project manger's face when we was looking at the boats on the bottom.

I could not help me silly Irish bum to say :

"I thought boats were suppose to float!"

The look on the poor fella's face was priceless Art! LOL

Cheer Mate. Hope all is well with ya!

H
 
Tom A said:
No one has mentioned Fero-Cement?:banghead:
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You tubers, Sailing Catalpa, have been sailing around Malaysia for a couple of years in a Fero-Cement sailboat. And actually my sister, brother in law and their two children lived on a Fero in the Florida keys back in the 80s. They found that they couldn't fight a current of more than three knots when trying to motor out of a marina, but they still loved the boat.
 
"They found that they couldn't fight a current of more than three knots when trying to motor out of a marina, but they still loved the boat."

The biggest problem was many had hull weight of about 15lbs per sq ft +.

Sadly folks stuck engines in their hull that was similar to what would have been installed in a wood or steel hull.

No matter what the hull was built of it still takes 3hp per ton to move the boat.
 
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After WWII there was tons of surplus aluminum sheet for airplanes. Several boat building startups decided they could make inexpensive boats. Hiring war workers experienced at riveting they built at least hundreds. Of course the aluminum was the wrong alloy, but that didn't stop them. As a kid growing up in the 1950s there was usually one at every marina, corroding away. They were all gone by about 1955. And that was in fresh water.
 
Greetings,
Mr. A. Thanks. Unfortunately, I think those are all either very old ads that haven't been taken down or for boats in such as state as not to be worth putting any $$ into. I vaguely recall seeing them last year.


Mr. PB. No need to get defensive. IF I thought the Cargiles were REALLY bad, why would I be looking for one? Fugly? Pretty well to most eyes. Practical and BEST use of space in a 28'/30' boat? None better IMO.
 
Sorry RT, did not read all your posts.

The interesting design aspect of the Cargile Cutter is a1978 era boat that already had the high bow and large hull side windows that are prevalent today. The seamanship in the article is exemplary, especially in 20’ seas and a rogue wave thrown in to boot.

All on a single mechanical 130hp Volvo Penta stern drive. Can you imagine getting a nuisance alarm in our electronic engine world during that heavy sea “battle”?
 
Greetings,
Mr. PB. Not a problem. In spite of the fact I really don't like Volvo engines (diesel) the gas engines may not have as bad a reputation. I also REALLY don't like stern drives.
That being said, IF I could find one in good enough shape I would be willing to overlook the possible negatives to own such a unique vessel. As I said, voluminous space in that length of boat.
 
RT Firefly said:
Greetings,
Mr. PB. Not a problem. In spite of the fact I really don't like Volvo engines (diesel) the gas engines may not have as bad a reputation. I also REALLY don't like stern drives.
That being said, IF I could find one in good enough shape I would be willing to overlook the possible negatives to own such a unique vessel. As I said, voluminous space in that length of boat.
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RT - Re the Cargill ads I referred--- knew they were old etc. Seen them over a decade ago. I too an very interested in that boat and stories about it.

I dislike OD's too. "Like an Alka Seltzer tablet"... in saltwater! Not to mention mechanical design problems. Good points are single engine maneuverability, easy trim at speeds, trailering and beaching the boat for playtime. Although, one item that can get real costly - do not apply power in too much upward angle, it sheers gears!

That said... I have a Mercruiser Alpha 1 O/D hooked on to Mercruiser 4.3 I/B in my backyard. A really, really nice [like new] 1989, 19' Bluewater, cuddy cabin ski boat... with only 300 hrs. It's a long story how I ended up with that baby. She is a REAL barn find. Was given to me by family member due to a decade ago death. Has not been started since 2003. Although the boat itself is in like new condition... much mechanical refurbishment/cleaning/tuning to do to get her up and running correctly again.

Getting motor and fuel lines all refreshed and running well is a slam dunk; done that times before on drive lines of road vehicles and boats. However, this will be the first time I take down an O/D and replace all rubber parts as well as make sure all innards are in top condition. Plan to have my laptop with videos running as I tear it down and build it back up. Watched a couple videos on O/D rebuild already. There are some "tricks of the trade" needing to be correctly actuated during restoring an O/D.

:speed boat: :dance:
 
I think bad boat is the wrong word

I would think ugly boat would be a better description. In my mind a boat should look 'shippy', traditional. Take any Defever design, or Monk design, or, my favorite a William Garden design. Or the Ken Smith Grand Banks.

Think of the Defever 49, Ocean Alexander Mk1, Monk 36, Endurance 35, Formosa 41, (sailboats)

These boats are traditional, beautifull boats. There may be excuses for building an ugly boat, But there is never an excuse to buying or owning an ugly boat.
If your boat doesn't do something to you emotionally when you see it at anchor in those cheesy sunset shots, then you shouldn't own a boat.
 
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grahamdouglass said:
I would think ugly boat would be a better description. In my mind a boat should look 'shippy', traditional. Take any Defever design, or Monk design, or, my favorite a William Garden design. Or the Ken Smith Grand Banks.

Think of the Defever 49, Ocean Alexander Mk1, Monk 36, Endurance 35, Formosa 41, (sailboats)

These boats are traditional, beautifull boats. There may be excuses for building an ugly boat, But there is never an excuse to buying or owning an ugly boat.
If your boat doesn't do something to you emotionally when you see it at anchor in those cheesy sunset shots, then you shouldn't own a boat.
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I agree with what you say and imply. However, in relatively short boats there is often a bunch more interior and exterior room enabled by designing a boat to look like a sneaker! Not my choice... but... ... ... To each their own!
 
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