Selene or nordhavn
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Alaskan Sea-Duction
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Selenes are a good boat. PM Crusty who is currently in Mexico with his 47ft Selene. I'm just not a Norty fan (sorry Irene). Irene can give you the in and outs on Norties.
Crusty Chief
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Good luck on your hunt. Hope you find what your looking for. We have been cruising with a Canadian couple on there Nordy 40 for the last year. They love it, but it is a smaller boat, only one head.
Most people cant tell the difference between the 43 and the 47 Selene, parked side by side it’s difficult to see the difference. The 43 is a bit smaller in the Salon and aft cockpit.
Both the Selene’s and the smaller Nordies are in high demand so finding the one that suits you is a chore, but be diligent, she will find you.
Cheers,
Hippocampus
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We’re on the opposite coast but facing the same issue. As mom and pop cruisers the one head is a problem. On our prior boat she had her head and I had mine. The aft head had a better shower so we both used that. Both on passage and when another couple was visiting that second head was quite welcomed.
If you have sufficient deep pockets think the 43 nordie is a more livable boat. Just having some place to sit when at the wheel and easily see the screens makes a difference. Yes most times on such a boat the AP steers. But having to get up and move around to check your various screens is annoying. Having to stand when you need to hand steer is as well. So think the drawback of the N40 is more the small pilot house than the single head although both raise issues.
Think unless your program will definitely include 1500nm passages you matrix of the Selene first makes sense. At the age you’re talking the major depreciation has already occurred. Any deficiencies in construction have been made apparent and have been addressed.
I’m sure you looked at the other thread giving a comparison and talking about tankage. Think that’s a non issue with a good survey. Others say also look at the KKs. For near shore and coastal you definitely get a more livable boat for less bucks with the 39 or 42. But think until you get to the 48 personally don’t think you get an equivalent boat for passage. Others talk about the diesel ducks. It checks all our boxes but for stabilization. In this size range many don’t have fish , flopperstoppers nor sailing rig so if you want that add it into your budget.
The above is the probably distorted and incorrect view of a newbie. Current discussions in our house focus on whether we should just give up on FD and also look at SD. My trawler friends say I have my head up my butt. They say FD boats are overpriced and rarely used to their capabilities. I could still do what I want skipping down the east coast and then island hopping. They say that’s less tedious and I would save big bucks while having many more choices. Some of that they admit is due to a FD limiting our ability to buddy boat. Much of the Bahamas, AICW, chessie bay, loop and other skinny water is gone.
If you have sufficient deep pockets think the 43 nordie is a more livable boat. Just having some place to sit when at the wheel and easily see the screens makes a difference. Yes most times on such a boat the AP steers. But having to get up and move around to check your various screens is annoying. Having to stand when you need to hand steer is as well. So think the drawback of the N40 is more the small pilot house than the single head although both raise issues.
Think unless your program will definitely include 1500nm passages you matrix of the Selene first makes sense. At the age you’re talking the major depreciation has already occurred. Any deficiencies in construction have been made apparent and have been addressed.
I’m sure you looked at the other thread giving a comparison and talking about tankage. Think that’s a non issue with a good survey. Others say also look at the KKs. For near shore and coastal you definitely get a more livable boat for less bucks with the 39 or 42. But think until you get to the 48 personally don’t think you get an equivalent boat for passage. Others talk about the diesel ducks. It checks all our boxes but for stabilization. In this size range many don’t have fish , flopperstoppers nor sailing rig so if you want that add it into your budget.
The above is the probably distorted and incorrect view of a newbie. Current discussions in our house focus on whether we should just give up on FD and also look at SD. My trawler friends say I have my head up my butt. They say FD boats are overpriced and rarely used to their capabilities. I could still do what I want skipping down the east coast and then island hopping. They say that’s less tedious and I would save big bucks while having many more choices. Some of that they admit is due to a FD limiting our ability to buddy boat. Much of the Bahamas, AICW, chessie bay, loop and other skinny water is gone.
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Alaskan Sea-Duction
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So why is the one head an issue? Less maintenance...
Tidahapah
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If the toilets are good, such as Tecma Silence plus then maintenance is not a problem. They just don't brake.
I just don't get this obsession with toilets (heads) I have a 50 foot boat, 2 heads. One on main deck and the other is in our aft cabin. The aft cabin toilet/shower has been used probably 5 times in 25 years. We all use the main deck shower/toilet even when we have guests.
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caltexflanc
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What are you going to do with the boat, how will it be used and how much?
What criteria led you to narrow it all down to those two?
Hippocampus
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Had two heads. One non electric other an Elegance. Practical Sailor rated it highly and I agree.
Typical day at anchor wife would use her head for farding ( makeup/hair/ etc.) I’d use mine for the necessaries. She had hers full with her stuff. I had mine full with medical supplies for injuries or illnesses and household supplies (toilet paper, baby wipes etc.).
Common day on passage foulies and such hung in aft shower. Crew used head farthest away from where people are sleeping. Not infrequently both toilets were in use.
Cruising with another couple. One head for us. One head for them.
Coastal cruising having two holding tanks came in handy as well. Never violated that rule even when there was no pump out anywhere near us.
So even on a small boat think 2 heads is a plus. Also think a separate shower is a plus. We’re probably going to end up with one head on our next boat and will probably miss having that second head. Even with two often had to wait on the bride before leaving the boat.
Typical day at anchor wife would use her head for farding ( makeup/hair/ etc.) I’d use mine for the necessaries. She had hers full with her stuff. I had mine full with medical supplies for injuries or illnesses and household supplies (toilet paper, baby wipes etc.).
Common day on passage foulies and such hung in aft shower. Crew used head farthest away from where people are sleeping. Not infrequently both toilets were in use.
Cruising with another couple. One head for us. One head for them.
Coastal cruising having two holding tanks came in handy as well. Never violated that rule even when there was no pump out anywhere near us.
So even on a small boat think 2 heads is a plus. Also think a separate shower is a plus. We’re probably going to end up with one head on our next boat and will probably miss having that second head. Even with two often had to wait on the bride before leaving the boat.
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You should probably also consider engine room access in choosing between a Nordhavn and Selene. When I looked at similar size Nordhavn (42or 46?) and a Selene (47), engine room access was substantially better with the Selene.
We did have 2 heads , one Tecma electric/freshwater, the other Raritan manual/seawater. A practical combination is terms of water usage, and discharge. The seawater head was set up for direct discharge in appropriate locations, the Tecma fed direct to the tank. With guest aboard, one head was the day head and guest bathroom, while the other was ensuite with the master cabin.
We did have 2 heads , one Tecma electric/freshwater, the other Raritan manual/seawater. A practical combination is terms of water usage, and discharge. The seawater head was set up for direct discharge in appropriate locations, the Tecma fed direct to the tank. With guest aboard, one head was the day head and guest bathroom, while the other was ensuite with the master cabin.
sunchaser
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You could easily expand your list to include more brands that can be equally capable to Selene or Nordhavn for your intended cruising. Prior owner care and maintenance is a huge difference maker with brand coming in second place IMHO.
Hippocampus
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Did a video tour of a truly beautiful Selene 43 yesterday. A bit overpriced but perhaps workable as owners get more realistic and Covid effect goes through the system. Engine access was definitely better than the N40s and N43s we’ve been looking at. But it’s a coastal boat. Not stabilized and more at risk from down flooding or engine failure. So back to fishing or cutting bait. Do we give up on long coastal hopping and passage or content ourselves with pleasant day sailing, the AICW and the loop. Currently feel the smaller Selenes (and the KKs ) are neither fish or fowl. Not true blue water boats without some further work and still with some risk. But also not true coastal and skinny water boats where a SD with more power maybe more suitable. Wife is enamored by the Selene. It’s a much more open interior, has a second head, more storage, master stateroom is more livable as is the pilot house. Happy wife=happy life so still thinking this through. But its still on the list. Particularly the one we looked at knowing we would add fins which would not be cost effective at the time we swallow the anchor. Given this it’s not surprising the new N41 has so many build orders. It’s more a coastal boat then the 40 or 43 but a more livable boat for the average mom and pop whose reality is less frequent passages.
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FoxtrotCharlie
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Selene or Nordhavn? Now that is indeed a new world problem
Good luck with the search
Good luck with the search
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Hippocampus
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Should mention just as there’s meaningful differences between the N Mark one and two there’s a totally different layout of the galley and salon in early v later Selene 43s. Wife’s preference was for the starboard side galley with peninsula and no barstools seen in the later ones.
Retriever
Senior Member
Both boats are overkill for cruising the San Juans to Southeast Alaska. I've done the whole thing, including around Vancouver Island, in a C-Dory 22 and a bunch of times in a Nordic Tug 37. For running around the San Juans, the smaller boats are faster, easier to care for, and easier to get into transient moorage.
We found the interior layouts of the Nordhavn 40 and 43 a little tight and their cruise speeds a little slow. For similar money to a 43, we bought a Nordhavn 50 that is much faster (can cruise 8-9 knots all day) and more spacious, but older.
The only reason I sold my Nordic Tug and bought the Nordhavn is because we plan to do more offshore travel and possibly cross the Pacific. If we weren't planning to cruise beyond the Inside Passage, we would have kept the Nordic Tug or perhaps moved up to a larger model for more room and amenities. I felt the tradeoff of higher speed capability, larger windows, more open spaces, and simpler systems for less seaworthiness, range, and redundancy was a pretty good one for Inside Passage travel.
We really do like the Nordhavn. At anchor it's much quieter and has a slower, more comfortable motion. Underway, active fin stabilizers and a ballasted full displacement hull make conditions that had lockers flying open on the Nordic Tug totally benign. But it's a whole lot more to learn, which I enjoy, but not everyone does.
One small example. My Nordhavn fuel manifold has 20+ valves, which allows any combination of supply, return, and polishing that you could dream of, including many that will shut down or even damage an engine. The Nordic Tug had just a few fuel valves. In 4000 hours of operation I never touched them except during the annual Racor filter swap. With a load of bad fuel the simple Nordic Tug design would be more challenging to deal with (no way to polish or isolate), but that never happened.
We found the interior layouts of the Nordhavn 40 and 43 a little tight and their cruise speeds a little slow. For similar money to a 43, we bought a Nordhavn 50 that is much faster (can cruise 8-9 knots all day) and more spacious, but older.
The only reason I sold my Nordic Tug and bought the Nordhavn is because we plan to do more offshore travel and possibly cross the Pacific. If we weren't planning to cruise beyond the Inside Passage, we would have kept the Nordic Tug or perhaps moved up to a larger model for more room and amenities. I felt the tradeoff of higher speed capability, larger windows, more open spaces, and simpler systems for less seaworthiness, range, and redundancy was a pretty good one for Inside Passage travel.
We really do like the Nordhavn. At anchor it's much quieter and has a slower, more comfortable motion. Underway, active fin stabilizers and a ballasted full displacement hull make conditions that had lockers flying open on the Nordic Tug totally benign. But it's a whole lot more to learn, which I enjoy, but not everyone does.
One small example. My Nordhavn fuel manifold has 20+ valves, which allows any combination of supply, return, and polishing that you could dream of, including many that will shut down or even damage an engine. The Nordic Tug had just a few fuel valves. In 4000 hours of operation I never touched them except during the annual Racor filter swap. With a load of bad fuel the simple Nordic Tug design would be more challenging to deal with (no way to polish or isolate), but that never happened.
Retriever
Senior Member
Thanks, that's me! Happy to show you the boat or chat more one of these days, feel free to send me a PM.
Kawini
Senior Member
Hippocampus-
Don’t give up on the Selene 43 option if that’s the boat that’s checking your and your wife’s boxes. Many (most?) S 43s have factory-installed active stabilization. The one that you toured was unusual in NOT having fins. I see that the one S 43 currently listed on YW does have Naiads, as does mine.
Layouts on Selenes - so far as I understand - did not change through the production, but rather reflected the individual owners’ tastes and needs. Our boat is S 4327 with a side galley and a midship master. This layout has some significant advantages insofar as storage is concerned (not to mention the more desirable - IMHO - midship master cabin) but does require more stair travel, as access to the cabins below is from the pilot house.
Good luck!
Don’t give up on the Selene 43 option if that’s the boat that’s checking your and your wife’s boxes. Many (most?) S 43s have factory-installed active stabilization. The one that you toured was unusual in NOT having fins. I see that the one S 43 currently listed on YW does have Naiads, as does mine.
Layouts on Selenes - so far as I understand - did not change through the production, but rather reflected the individual owners’ tastes and needs. Our boat is S 4327 with a side galley and a midship master. This layout has some significant advantages insofar as storage is concerned (not to mention the more desirable - IMHO - midship master cabin) but does require more stair travel, as access to the cabins below is from the pilot house.
Good luck!
Hippocampus
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The N50 has much to offer but rare to see one on the market. It’s on the list as well. K yes each is different. Apparently I’m wrong but my prior understanding was the position and lay out of the galley was changed (?in most boats) some time in 2004-5). We also looked at a Willard 40. We both liked many features on that boat but the example shown was quite tired. No interest in doing a significant project boat. Useable space was on the same order as a N40 or even less. Still the basic design is beautiful and the bones excellent. No questions about original build. We’ve looked at several DDs. Downside is no fins. We like lower chessie bay and have only done northern portions of the Bahamas. Inability to stabilize in less than 16-17’ is an obstacle when cruising. But definitely like the 46’. All these boats are quite heavy so the cost of retrofitting a gyro regardless of make is prohibitive. Agree with Steve D’A. For FD boats gyros don’t make sense. Wife and I agree we want fins.
Slowmo
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OK, I'm not in the league to be making that choice...or at least at the level we cruise it wouldn't be justified. However, one thing I'd recommend is looking closely at where you want to go and what boat best fits that need before selecting brands. Obviously both Selene and Nordhavn are good boats. But consider that if you're in the SJ and Gulf islands that as your draft increases you'll be locked out of some places. I'm thinking Pirates Cove at Decourcy, Rosco Bay at Redondo, etc. Personally for that price level I'd be looking also at things like Flemming and Grand Banks Aleutian.
Crusty Chief
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Closing in on 20K NM over the last 5 years and no stabilizers. Would they be nice to have? Absolutely, but not a requirement if you pay attention to weather. Almost everyone that we know that has stabilizers had had issue’s with them. Some are minor issues, some are major ones. Its just another system you need to maintain and hope for great customer service from the manufacturer.
Just my 2 pesos worth.
firehoser75
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As Sam (Retriever) and others have stated, there are many brands/models that will nicely fulfill your needs when it comes to cruising the San Juans, BC coast, SE Alaska, and even West Coast of Vancouver Island, provided you watch the weather carefully.
While Selene and Nordies are great boats, there are other very good boats. You don't need offshore capabilities for the described cruising. Also you may be paying extra for features you don't actually need and actually may make the boat less useful for your intended cruising?? Mostly talking about the Nordies here.
If you have your heart set on these two brands only, and are looking for a well maintained boat (and I feel that is critical), you may have to be very, very patient in this market to find a good example to purchase without having to go far afield (which adds all kinds of extra expenses and complications, esp. during a pandemic).
If you have not given thought to other brands, I would suggest looking at KK, Fleming, Helmsman, North Pacific, Grand Banks, Nordic and American Tug, to name a few. All are capable of what you are seeking, but may not meet your "other" critieria.
It would broaden your pool of potentially available boats, and enable you to "get out on the water" (probably) sooner.
Good luck with what you decide.
While Selene and Nordies are great boats, there are other very good boats. You don't need offshore capabilities for the described cruising. Also you may be paying extra for features you don't actually need and actually may make the boat less useful for your intended cruising?? Mostly talking about the Nordies here.
If you have your heart set on these two brands only, and are looking for a well maintained boat (and I feel that is critical), you may have to be very, very patient in this market to find a good example to purchase without having to go far afield (which adds all kinds of extra expenses and complications, esp. during a pandemic).
If you have not given thought to other brands, I would suggest looking at KK, Fleming, Helmsman, North Pacific, Grand Banks, Nordic and American Tug, to name a few. All are capable of what you are seeking, but may not meet your "other" critieria.
It would broaden your pool of potentially available boats, and enable you to "get out on the water" (probably) sooner.
Good luck with what you decide.
IRENE
Guru
If you want a Nordhavn or Selene you definitely should get what makes you happy...
Firehoser75 PERFECTLY summarized a brilliant thread with his last paragraph, and added great advice.
Happy to try and answer any N40 questions...
Best Wishes
Hippocampus
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Agree they’re still on the list. Downside is engine access. One that just sold had twin wet exhaust yanmars. There’s another but flybridge done aftermarket is aesthetically unappealing.
