Port of Brunswick closed

[Sailor of Fortune]

Nice shot! Where's the new dink, SOF? Left it at the dock?

Its on its cradle on the 01 deck,stbd side.

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

I still think there's a few Dutch engineering firms that would have a road out there and a dam around the thing in a matter of weeks.... (seen it done in much, much more challenging situations, hell half the country is below sea level and the North Sea is a fierce opponent). Yes it would be very expensive. But that points out that the "Some environmental impact is unavoidable" outcome is subject to economic decisions.

You do know Smit has been involved from the beginning, right?

No Salvage has taken place yet. Unified command has mandated from the beginning that no salvage will take place until all haz fluids are off the ship. It is still being mitigated,environmental impact is still the primary concern. The salvage part will begin when its as pollution free as possible.
The bids for the salvage part of the job won't be awarded for a couple of weeks

 

[slowgoesit]

I still think there's a few Dutch engineering firms that would have a road out there and a dam around the thing in a matter of weeks.... (seen it done in much, much more challenging situations, hell half the country is below sea level and the North Sea is a fierce opponent). Yes it would be very expensive. But that points out that the "Some environmental impact is unavoidable" outcome is subject to economic decisions.

Heck, when the salvage is finished, think of the protected anchorage that is ready built to set up as a Marina! Just breach the coffer dam at a convenient location, and there you go! Trying to look at the bright side here . . .

 

[mcboatface]

Many of us are surprised that the Convention and Visitors Bureau, CVB around here, hasn’t suggested making it into a hotel. The CVB gets all of its revenue from a hotel tax, thus they are very, very fond of hotels and have been planting them on every square inch of land the past few years.

A couple of years ago the county denied a hotel permit three times because it was so incredibly inappropriate for the location. But the developer just wouldn’t take no for an answer and the county eventually approved the hotel as originally planned and rejected. It opened last week. It has only 24 rooms. No one can make the math work. Oh, and children are not welcome. In a resort area. A block from the beach. Hmmm ...

Trust me. Someone here is eyeing the Golden Ray with a hotel in mind. “But it would solve all the problems with removing it. Just give us $500 million, or half the potential salvage cost, and we’ll do the rest.” I’m only half kidding.

 

[mcboatface]

Well, well. I guess they haven’t ruled this out after all. From today’s local paper. I am not certain if the link will work without a subscription but I’ll try:


https://thebrunswicknews.com/news/l...cle_86f2bd5c-3e3c-5dcb-897c-8d3b2e46f49f.html

 

[stubones99]

I still think there's a few Dutch engineering firms that would have a road out there and a dam around the thing in a matter of weeks.... (seen it done in much, much more challenging situations, hell half the country is below sea level and the North Sea is a fierce opponent). Yes it would be very expensive. But that points out that the "Some environmental impact is unavoidable" outcome is subject to economic decisions.

They do it in holland because they have to, or there would be an X marking where holland was... for them, it is life or death, or at least live somewhere else.

I would have thought some sort of raised gangway on pilings could be build and welded to the hull and start the emptying process. At least it isn't underwater and at sea.

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

They do it in holland because they have to, or there would be an X marking where holland was... for them, it is life or death, or at least live somewhere else.

I would have thought some sort of raised gangway on pilings could be build and welded to the hull and start the emptying process. At least it isn't underwater and at sea.

What would this accomplish? You still have to bring big equipment in by barge. Gangway would be personnel only. It would slow the process down immensely. Pumping oil to 9000 gallon trucks instead of a 30,000 Barrel barge?

 

[psneeld]

Always more that one way to skin a cat, as time drags on the threat of storms changes the rules, most of us have no clue as we don't have a clear picture of the cargo and all potential pollution sources...salvage often is fuid where the "plan" needs tweeking to complete plan change, etc, etc....

Trying to outguess the unified command from thread info is like reading a crystal ball.

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

Correct! Unified command/COTP working closely with the best engineers in the world. They take the environmental impact very seriously. Arm chair salvors, most of whom have never been on a jobsite with big equipment and challenges hardly will come up with an earth shattering idea..

 

[BandB]

Always more that one way to skin a cat, as time drags on the threat of storms changes the rules, most of us have no clue as we don't have a clear picture of the cargo and all potential pollution sources...salvage often is fuid where the "plan" needs tweeking to complete plan change, etc, etc....

Trying to outguess the unified command from thread info is like reading a crystal ball.

And the structural integrity of the hull.

 

[wkearney99]

And the structural integrity of the hull.

I think this is a factor most folks don't grasp. Most structures/ships aren't designed to handle being shifted into a dramatically non-vertical orientation. Laid on it's side the ship has all kinds of different stress factors acting on it. Making it a considerably different kind of problem due to the potential for collapsing/deforming.

If it had just sunk in deeper waters it'd have been a lot less trouble. Sure, removing the pollutants from it would have posed the same challenges but at least the ship could have been left there. It's considerably worse having to remove it. I just can't imagine what the finally tally will be.

 

[Action]

Thinking out loud
The water in and around the hull may give some support. Build a dam and remove the water, may remove some support rendering the hull even less stable.

Which is likely an engineering problem to be calculated.
And I not an engineer by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[wkearney99]

The Costa Corncodia removal at least had a rocky bottom under it on which to build the frame used to help right it. I'm guessing the sand bottom under this one is more problematic. Consider where it's situated, right out where the sound meets the Atlantic.

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/shipid:5242584/zoom:13

There's also the factor of long-term impact on the bottom in the area. I'm no expert, by any stretch, but I recall reading some articles in the past that discussed how doing things like expanding dredge spoil areas (Poplar Island, Hart-Miller, etc) in the Chesapeake were investigated for how they'd impact the water flow. Setting up obstacles to flow will mean the water will scour out elsewhere, potentially making for bigger problems. I'd image that's an additional factor to consider (accepting that bottom conditions are different between this and the Chesapeake).

I'm guessing any rocks they put down to stabilize the wreck would probably also have to be removed. Just... more... hassle and expense, ugh.

 

[O C Diver]

Without knowing how close it is to the shipping lane, wonder if it would be possible to build a temporary beach around it. Bring in a beach replenishment dredge and pump sand dunes around it. Wonder if that would stabilize the sight from storms? Once the wreck is cut up and removed, remove the sand. Have watched them do beach replenishment for years off of Ocean city, MD. Saw video of them closeing an inlet (made by a hurricane) in Hatteras, NC. It's amazing how fast a big dredge can move sand.

Ted

 

[Woodland Hills]

If you make the salvage and removal into a land operation what is the impact of hundreds of heavy trucks a week passing through a tiny beach town? St Simons would be completely changed probably permanently, something they never signed up for and which they will fight tooth and nail against. Right now they have a tourist attraction offshore, but turn their town into the shore staging point and trucking center for the salvage operation and that’s the end of St Simon town and probably the property values on the entire island. Who would want to holiday in a town choked in fumes from trucks and other heavy equipment, not to mention the danger to pedestrians and other tourists.

 

[psneeld]

Eminent domain...kick them all off the island forever....

I believe it would be Jekyll anyway as the staging point and the state of Ga already owns Jekyll I think .....so kicking the people off should be easier

 

[Woodland Hills]

Eminent domain...kick them all off the island forever....

I believe it would be Jekyll anyway as the staging point and the state of Ga already owns Jekyll I think .....so kicking the people off should be easier

A reasonably competent law firm should be able tie up an eminent domain case for years.

 

[O C Diver]

Someone's office...

Nice shot! Where's the new dink, SOF? Left it at the dock?

Ted

 

[oscar]

The dismantling of a dry object on land would be many times easier than the ocean beating you on the head every inch of the way. You would be able to dry out the wreck and not have to do half the work UNDER water. Not to mention the access to liquids which need to be removed. And then there is always the possibility that as you start talking it apart the ocean moves it around.... At that point ANY spill is in the water.... on land you can contain it.

No comparison between a land and underwater operation.

 

[psneeld]

Except turning the ocean into land to begin with.

 

[Woodland Hills]

Correct. I believe this concept was looked at and rejected for the reasons you state. And yes, this is a very, very challenging situation all around.

While I am sure the removal of the Tricolor in the English Channel was really tough, it wasn’t just a few hundred yards from environmentally sensitive marshland and a bird sanctuary. Much more room for error.

It seems nearly impossible to remove this ship without significant impact. The fact that the Unified Command keeps stating over and over that some environmental impact is inevitable is making everyone around here fairly nervous. Needless to say, this area is dependent on tourist trade and clean beaches are critical.

On the other hand, late this week, many thousands of kids will descend upon our small island for the annual GA-FL football game. They will gawk at the ship and then get right back to drinking their body weight. Sadly, I will miss much of the fun as I am heading to FLIBS Tuesday.

I took this photo today. Yes, that’s how close she lies to the beach.
View attachment 95820

I thought that game was in Jacksonville? Are you saying the game is played on St Simons Island instead?

 

[BandB]

I thought that game was in Jacksonville? Are you saying the game is played on St Simons Island instead?

It's at Everbank Field in Jacksonville, formerly the Gator Bowl.

 

[twistedtree]

I just try to imagine removing vehicles from the vessel, and ultimately cutting it up, and I think unexpected movement of the vessel would be the biggest danger and hindrance to progress. Anything to stabilize the vessel would seem to be of huge value

 

[mcboatface]

I thought that game was in Jacksonville? Are you saying the game is played on St Simons Island instead?

No. The game is certainly in Jacksonville. The days-long pregame is centered here though. Generally, the Friday before the game, about 10,000 kids spend the day on our beach, most of them consuming massive quantities of “fluids”. Many of us do our best to help the kids get safely through the day. And most of the kids, no matter how insanely drunk, are polite, respectful and thankful. It’s quite a show.

I just drove back from Ft Lauderdale, after a couple of brutally hot days at FLIBS, just to enjoy the event. And for anyone considering going to the boat show, all I can say is be prepared. The heat and humidity are ridiculous. Yesterday the docks were almost entirely without guests by 3 pm. The poor exhibitors still had 4 hours to go. I was out there from 9:30 to 5:30, and the concept of whether a human can melt did cross my mind. Thankfully I ran into lots of friends working on air conditioned boats.

 

[mcboatface]

Without knowing how close it is to the shipping lane, wonder if it would be possible to build a temporary beach around it. Bring in a beach replenishment dredge and pump sand dunes around it. Wonder if that would stabilize the sight from storms? Once the wreck is cut up and removed, remove the sand. Have watched them do beach replenishment for years off of Ocean city, MD. Saw video of them closeing an inlet (made by a hurricane) in Hatteras, NC. It's amazing how fast a big dredge can move sand.

Ted

She lies approximately 150 feet from the edge of the channel at the closest point, which is the turn between the Jekyll and Plantation Creek ranges. Which is where this entire episode began.

But really more like 450 feet or so to the traffic lane.

 

[BandB]

I just drove back from Ft Lauderdale, after a couple of brutally hot days at FLIBS, just to enjoy the event. And for anyone considering going to the boat show, all I can say is be prepared. The heat and humidity are ridiculous. Yesterday the docks were almost entirely without guests by 3 pm. The poor exhibitors still had 4 hours to go. I was out there from 9:30 to 5:30, and the concept of whether a human can melt did cross my mind. Thankfully I ran into lots of friends working on air conditioned boats.

Wifey B: You call 87 degrees brutally hot? OMG. Don't ever go to Texas with all their 100+ degree days.

I call yesterday at 87 degrees with cool breezes off the ocean, a perfect day in Paradise.

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

No. The game is certainly in Jacksonville. The days-long pregame is centered here though. Generally, the Friday before the game, about 10,000 kids spend the day on our beach, most of them consuming massive quantities of “fluids”. Many of us do our best to help the kids get safely through the day. And most of the kids, no matter how insanely drunk, are polite, respectful and thankful. It’s quite a show.

I just drove back from Ft Lauderdale, after a couple of brutally hot days at FLIBS, just to enjoy the event. And for anyone considering going to the boat show, all I can say is be prepared. The heat and humidity are ridiculous. Yesterday the docks were almost entirely without guests by 3 pm. The poor exhibitors still had 4 hours to go. I was out there from 9:30 to 5:30, and the concept of whether a human can melt did cross my mind. Thankfully I ran into lots of friends working on air conditioned boats.

I can't believe its this hot, this late in the season. 89 degrees on Halloween is record setting here. Thankfully, a couple of cool days ahead, more seasonal..

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

She lies approximately 150 feet from the edge of the channel at the closest point, which is the turn between the Jekyll and Plantation Creek ranges. Which is where this entire episode began.

But really more like 450 feet or so to the traffic lane.

Its quite a site to see car ships passing that close to a casualty in a turn.

 

[BruceK]

I`m reminded of the producers of "Raise The Titanic" saying it would have been easier to "Lower the Atlantic".

 

[mcboatface]

Wifey B: You call 87 degrees brutally hot? OMG. Don't ever go to Texas with all their 100+ degree days.



I call yesterday at 87 degrees with cool breezes off the ocean, a perfect day in Paradise.

Yes, but the combination of the unseasonably high temperature, over 70% humidity, no cloud cover and almost no breeze (beach yes, docks no), made the Las Olas venue a very unpleasant place indeed. There was definitely more breeze this morning before I headed home.

I will say that the exhibitors inside the tents had more traffic than usual for the first day. They were happy campers. Cool and busy.

I’ve been to Texas in the summer many times. I just try to avoid being out in the sun for hours and hours. I remember getting off a plane in Dallas at 1 am several years ago and it was 104 degrees.