foggysail
Guru
AAHhh-- if only it were so. A type 1 MSD cannot pump out in a no discharge zone.
And if not in such a zone, who cares if you pump directly?
My practices when it comes to sewage
- Thread starter BandB
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AAHhh-- if only it were so. A type 1 MSD cannot pump out in a no discharge zone.
And if not in such a zone, who cares if you pump directly?
psneeld
Guru
AAHhh-- if only it were so. A type 1 MSD cannot pump out in a no discharge zone.
Hmmm...inland waters where you can't legally dump raw sewage, but you can use a Type 1 are infinitely more than current NDZs....
So I have no clue what you are talking about.
And my point was that the vast majority would use pumpout or pump illegally as most don't have Type 1s. Just basic logic.
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Sounded to me like he pumps out without treatment in those waters. I sure hope that's not the case.
sbu22
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OK Wes - I stand corrected. But, the "direct deposit" versus "catch and release" legal differentiation (credit to Peggy) exemplifies the mental masturbation that passes for legal thought in this country.
foggysail
Guru
Don't become carried away, because that IS the case! Please look at the following URLs.
https://www3.epa.gov/region1/eco/nodiscrg/pdfs/Region1NoDischargeZones2014.pdf#page=1
The NDZ maps typify radical environmental extremism that very few will comply with. Also informative is the other URL I have posted below:
http://fairhaven-ma.gov/Pages/FairhavenMA_Harbor/hm pump out notice.pdf
And of course we have the real world to contend with that includes a huge pipe (about 10' diameter) that carries so called treated waste discharge into Buzzards Bay by the City of New Bedford along with another so called treated waste discharge pipe from the Town of Fairhaven dumping directly into the harbor.
Yes, there are those who will continue to demand the impossible. Time to get real.
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foggysail
Guru
Well, I don't know where you get your misinformation. You need to read what the EPA allows and does not allow. And Type 1 is NOT allowed to discharge treated waste into a NDZ. Time to correct your so called facts.
https://www.epa.gov/vessels-marinas-and-ports/vessel-sewage-discharges-no-discharge-zones-ndzs
He never said Type I could discharge into NDZ. He said there are more areas in which you can use a Type I than there are NDZ's.
Well, it's your choice of whether you break the law. I choose not to do so.
psneeld
Guru
Thanks BandB...
Read more carefully Foggysail...I do know my facts.
I have posted the same numerous times....
foggysail
Guru
You may change your mind if you used the same waters as I. Did you even look at my posted URL's?
foggysail
Guru
Yeah, sure you do.........pray you never have to explain YOUR facts to an environmental officer
psneeld
Guru
I was just boarded and had to successfully explain Type 1s and NDZs to the USCG boarding party with the Sheriff's department too.
Easy peezy when you know your stuff and have the references and type 1 stickers handy.
You on the other hand....please don't confuse people trying to learn.
Use of type 1s in inland waters that are not NDZs is legal unless by some weird local law that is enforced illegally over federal law.
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foggysail
Guru
OH REALLY! I doubt any law enforcement officer and that includes the Coast Guard would allow you to twist the words stated below to that which allows a type 1 system's discharge into a NDZ
How does a vessel operator comply with an NDZ?
The requirements for vessel operators are described in 33 CFR 159.7(b)-(c) (PDF) (2 pp, 190 K). The regulations allow for four methods of securing a Type I or II marine sanitation device (MSD) while in an NDZ, including:
Closing the seacock and removing the handle;
Padlocking the seacock in the closed position;
Using a non-releasable wire-tie to hold the seacock in the closed position; or
Locking the door to the space enclosing the toilets with a padlock or door handle key lock.
SeaMoose
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The Truth
I've been on more boats with DOD heads than boats with holding tanks. These are all pee heads. I've never heard of anyone ever getting busted by the "pee police" either.
For the record I have a holding tank and have never, ever used the macerator pump
I've been on more boats with DOD heads than boats with holding tanks. These are all pee heads. I've never heard of anyone ever getting busted by the "pee police" either.
For the record I have a holding tank and have never, ever used the macerator pump
foggysail
Guru
Jack booted, gun carrying enforcement police may or may not "bust" someone from violating the NDZ laws. Enforcement is entirely up to the officer BUT that does NOT change the law, only the enforcement of the law
Nothing new on your URL's. And I don't know exactly which waters you boat on, but if they're coastal US I have used them. If it's the area in your URL's, I've boated there and followed the law.
psneeld
Guru
For the last time...I never said you can discharge a type 1 into a NDZ...so I guess we agree after all...
Maybe not on the Jack booted description of LEOs as most would risk their lives for even you.
Maybe not on the Jack booted description of LEOs as most would risk their lives for even you.
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foggysail
Guru
The next time you find yourself in Massachusetts waters, please feel free to visit FairHaven Harbor. There you will find smiling faces ready and willing that provide free waste pumpouts.
Free yes, but they only pump Saturday, Sunday and holiday mornings between 9AM and 1PM. Now of course you may need to wait if you arrive at other times. There in the Harbor you will find moorings plentiful for your wait :lol:
ranger58sb
Guru
AAHhh-- if only it were so. A type 1 MSD cannot pump out in a no discharge zone.
???
Yes, can't discharge from a type 1 MSD in an NDZ. Duh. Old news. (Not too many NDZs around here; only one nearby, pump-outs easily managed.)
But "if not in such a zone..." -- say what? Can't tell what your meaning is...
-Chris
dhays
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I think foggy is just a bit confused as to what PSneed was saying. PSneed is doing things exactly as he is supposed to.
My take, FWIW, is that foggy doesn't bother to use the pumpouts because they are not convenient enough. There are large differences I am sure between my limited experience in Puget Sound vs foggy's experience on the East Coast. He is upset by the pumpout service hours at Fairhaven Marina. It does sound pretty limited.
Still, I am used to always having to pumpout my own holding tank and very few private marinas have pumpout facilities. So it is something that we plan for, and around.
foggysail
Guru
Psneeld must have had a "clue" what I was talking about, it was NDZs
So after carefully explaining the LAW to representatives consisting of US Coast Guard and a local authority implying he is the smartest guy on the water. Well, just maybe he is not.
I don't see the confusion here. In ALL of my posts in this thread I addressed that there are no approved on board processing inculding Tpye 1 that allows dumping in a NDZ, not inland water ways......and I have no clue or interest where Psneed spends his time on the water.
Enough of this POOP for me
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ranger58sb
Guru
Yes, I'm confused... because you said this:
AAHhh-- if only it were so. A type 1 MSD cannot pump out in a no discharge zone.
I don't think anyone disputed anything you said about NDZs... and in fact everyone else said the same thing.
I think that's irrelevant to the confusion; it's the second part, about not being in such a zone...
And FWIW I still can't figure out what you meant by that.
-Chris
foggysail
Guru
REALLY??? Maybe because where you boat, there are limited NDZs. If you're not in a NDZ then you are free to share your poop with the fish and nobody cares. GOT IT???
psneeld
Guru
Wow...now you just made your case worse...limited NDZs? No such thing that I know of.
In an NDZ, no pumping....just pumpout ashore.
In inland waters, no pumping unless through a Type 1....such as most of the Chesapeake....and for that matter, many inland waters.
Again...I understand much of New England is a NDZ. So no legal pumping unless pumping out ashore. And that is tough to follow like it is around where I live for the summer. But I have a type one and can legally use it, because I am not in a NDZ. But because I am in inland waters, I can directly discharge.
Most people get this....your post 85 isn't totally correct.
In an NDZ, no pumping....just pumpout ashore.
In inland waters, no pumping unless through a Type 1....such as most of the Chesapeake....and for that matter, many inland waters.
Again...I understand much of New England is a NDZ. So no legal pumping unless pumping out ashore. And that is tough to follow like it is around where I live for the summer. But I have a type one and can legally use it, because I am not in a NDZ. But because I am in inland waters, I can directly discharge.
Most people get this....your post 85 isn't totally correct.
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dhays
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It is this part that has caused the confusion I believe.
We all agree that we can't discharge anything into a NDZ, treated or not. However, when not in a designated NDZ you still can't discharge untreated waste in inland waters or withing 3 nm of shore. You can however discharge treated waste from a certified system.
It sounded from your posts that you either could discharge anything outside an NDZ. That is not the case.
He made it clear in a response to me long ago in this thread that did mean he would discharge any and everything directly without treatment if he wasn't in an NDZ. He's the reason we have NDZ's.
ranger58sb
Guru
You mean aside from that whole being illegal thing, yes?
You're saying you'd routinely pump overboard when in non-NDZ waters where that's not legal? And that you think no one really cares whether you'd do that or not? And that you'd recommend that course of action to everyone else?
-Chris
foggysail
Guru
OK, OK---I see where the confusion resides. Because my responses pertained to the sanctuaries of NDZ and those who are responsible for protecting those zones..........the various state environmental police..........it was those police I was referring to. They have no authority to police waste dumping outside those limits. I thought that was obviously clear I was referring to the environmental police
and not the boating public, many of whom have strict, sometimes unreasonable environmental goals.
I am addressing recreational boating NOT ship's dumping, commercial dumping, trash dumping, hazardous material that includes nuclear waste dumping, oil dumping and of course if I overlooked some substances, solids or liquids I am sure someone will quickly respond!
It is time to get real folks! Goody goodies can fan flames on overboard discharging all they want. Many states appear to have a sensible approach to this problem. Other, specifically here in the New England area have passed unrealistic impositions onto the public especially to recreational boating.
Consider areas where there are over 1000 pleasure boats docked/moored such as the town where I dock. It provides only 4 hours both Saturday & Sunday mornings plus another 4 hours for holidays for pumping. Bang the drum all you want, respond with suggested solutions.....hire more people, increase taxes do what is necessary. Better still, save the money and just ban recreational boating. Folks, we do not live in Utopia!
Happy flushing! And I do have a 40 gallon holding tank that gets pumped!
and not the boating public, many of whom have strict, sometimes unreasonable environmental goals.
I am addressing recreational boating NOT ship's dumping, commercial dumping, trash dumping, hazardous material that includes nuclear waste dumping, oil dumping and of course if I overlooked some substances, solids or liquids I am sure someone will quickly respond!
It is time to get real folks! Goody goodies can fan flames on overboard discharging all they want. Many states appear to have a sensible approach to this problem. Other, specifically here in the New England area have passed unrealistic impositions onto the public especially to recreational boating.
Consider areas where there are over 1000 pleasure boats docked/moored such as the town where I dock. It provides only 4 hours both Saturday & Sunday mornings plus another 4 hours for holidays for pumping. Bang the drum all you want, respond with suggested solutions.....hire more people, increase taxes do what is necessary. Better still, save the money and just ban recreational boating. Folks, we do not live in Utopia!
Happy flushing! And I do have a 40 gallon holding tank that gets pumped!
