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Old 10-09-2017, 07:25 PM   #81
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5 hours without plotting your position on the chart does seem a bit excessive.
If during your nap, your GPS goes down, where are you when you wake up??
Possibly twice as far from the known position compared to sleeping 2 1/2 hours.
I agree with it being a bit excessive, but it would be my maximum limit. If I hadn't slept much in a few days and had confidence in my equipment, I would consider it, especially if more bad weather was expected later on.
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Old 10-09-2017, 07:29 PM   #82
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Just for the record...

A black ball is a vessel at anchor..

2 in a vertical line is vessel not under command.

Leaving the helm unattended is not really vessel not under command....though it comically is the same

After 5 hrs napping, and the gps went down....I would just check one of the other 5 gps aboard.
Good point!

I could argue both keep a constant watch and taking the occasional nap. For me, I don't to blue water and rarely out of site of land, so I prefer that someone is watching on the boat. With a 2 person crew that works quite well. And in a busy area, I want both to monitor.

We do the same in the airplane. One sleeps, one flies. The cat naps help me a LOT so I'm refreshed for more critical times, like "re-entry". However, there's been a few time when I wake up and my co-captain is sound asleep. Yikes! Hope that never happens on a boat where it's much more critical.
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Old 10-09-2017, 07:51 PM   #83
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Just for the record...

A black ball is a vessel at anchor..

2 in a vertical line is vessel not under command.

Leaving the helm unattended is not really vessel not under command....though it comically is the same

After 5 hrs napping, and the gps went down....I would just check one of the other 5 gps aboard.

LOL 2 black balls? Aint no way of that happening.... I'm not sure I have space to store them folded up. I guess I could tow them behind the boat.

Per the GPS? Remember Desert Storm? Uncle Sam shut the entire GPS system down.
That left a lot of boater and airplane pilots totally blind. The Feds said they would never do that again..... Yup, always believe the Feds, they will never lie to you, to you, to you. Remember that famous sentence, "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor."
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Old 10-09-2017, 08:58 PM   #84
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Dont believe they shut it down, just degraded the signal.

Too many modes of transport rely on it now, doubt it will ever shuts down.

Either way ....in my boat after a 5 hr nap,, if I was taking a 5 hr nap solo, it would be in a sutuation where it would be easy to DR ahead.
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Old 10-09-2017, 11:27 PM   #85
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Per the GPS? Remember Desert Storm? Uncle Sam shut the entire GPS system down.
That left a lot of boater and airplane pilots totally blind. The Feds said they would never do that again"
Just as well the Russians have a decent setup called Glonass.
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GLONASS is an acronym, which stands for Globalnaya Navigazionnaya Sputnikovaya Sistema, or Global Navigation Satellite System. GLONASS is Russia's version of GPS (Global Positioning System).
All my gear runs on it as well as US sat's.
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Old 10-10-2017, 12:56 AM   #86
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Take care Simi,the Russians know where you are.
If you have a Huawei phone so do the Chinese.
If you have an iPhone....
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Old 10-10-2017, 02:11 AM   #87
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Just as well the Russians have a decent setup called Glonass.

All my gear runs on it as well as US sat's.
And we also have WAAS, EGNOS and, MSAS. But not sure we would benefit from WAAS or MSAS if the satellites in that system went down.

And a lot of GPS boxes receive all of them. Simrad does. And Garmin uses at least the US sats and Glonass.
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Old 10-10-2017, 03:25 AM   #88
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If you have an iPhone....
Must.........resist.........answering........
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Old 10-10-2017, 08:03 AM   #89
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Hence the 'black ball', ship not under command.
But the black ball is pretty big for boats our size.
I don't even have a mast have a mast to hang it either.
You can buy a folding "black ball" for smaller boats like ours. It's not really a "ball", it's two round disks at 90 degrees to each other. At a distance, it looks like a ball. I bought one with the intention of using it but like you, I have no mast. I suppose I could hang it from the bimini frame.

That said, in all my time of boating, I can't recall ever seeing a small recreational boat showing a black ball or any other daytime signals. And I doubt more than a few boaters would know what it is or what it means.
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Old 10-10-2017, 08:16 AM   #90
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Maritime courts will note you were not showing a proper dayshape and possibly/probably assign a higher value of blame if someone runs into you.

Only takes a minute or two to display one once you have a proper set up
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Old 10-10-2017, 08:42 AM   #91
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Any pics of what the ball looks like on a boat?
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Old 10-10-2017, 09:58 AM   #92
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http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp...|2290132|22901



Just imagine this hanging somewhere on a boat. Halfway up the mast of a sailboat would be good. Hanging from the bimini frame on your (or my) boat would be legal and protect you from that "maritime court" thing but would not be very noticeable.

As a practical matter, if I'm wondering if a boat is anchored, I just look for the rode stretched out in front.
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Old 10-10-2017, 10:26 AM   #93
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Just as well the Russians have a decent setup called Glonass.

All my gear runs on it as well as US sat's.
Yep, for world wide coverage, the Russians have GLONASS, we have GPS, the EU has Galileo. In 2020, the Chinese will have BeiDou(Big Dipper).

The Japanese just launched their fourth satellite that will enable their regional GPS called QZSS(Quasi-Zenith Satellite System) which is the most accurate of the systems at under a meter. This will only cover East Asia though.

The Indians have their own GPS, IRNSS, which covers East Africa and East Asia.

Later,
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Old 10-10-2017, 11:20 AM   #94
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Thanks Wes. I'll buy one this winter. Why is it called a ball?? Lol
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Old 10-10-2017, 02:18 PM   #95
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Rule 3, part f....


I don't think a head call qualifies as "Not Under Command" nor does sleeping while underway.
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Old 10-10-2017, 02:22 PM   #96
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You can buy a folding "black ball"
In 40 years on the water I could count on one hand the times I have seen them in use.
Always new shiney boats with I assume , just retired, newbs who just read the book at the wheel.

I should point out, black balls ain't worth sh1+ at night.
Without looking it up, 2 reds on the vertical I believe is the correct signal
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Old 10-10-2017, 03:30 PM   #97
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In 40 years on the water I could count on one hand the times I have seen them in use.
Always new shiney boats with I assume , just retired, newbs who just read the book at the wheel.

I should point out, black balls ain't worth sh1+ at night.
Without looking it up, 2 reds on the vertical I believe is the correct signal
Black balls aren't designed for night. Lights are. Have no idea why you pointed out they're not worth anything at night. The purpose of them is that lights aren't worth a lot during the day time.

We do have black balls. We didn't just read the book though. It's such a simple rule to comply with. You get the collapsible/foldable balls. Been tempted to try black balloons, but then would need to carry helium. We don't anchor all that much.
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Old 10-10-2017, 05:06 PM   #98
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Simi

It is a big world and there are different customs in different regions. The anchor ball is used frequently by pleasure boats in the Eastern Caribbean. Bay Pelican flys one at anchor.

It is also a source of trouble for those who are hit at anchor and aren't flying one. I am aware of a couple of cases where the offender denied liability based on the lack of an anchor ball on the anchored boat. As in any situation it doesn't matter who is right or wrong, just don't give the other side a strong arguing point.
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Old 10-10-2017, 05:19 PM   #99
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Two red balls --red over red, captain is dead.
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Old 10-10-2017, 05:21 PM   #100
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It also can determine how you react as the stand on vessel and dont have a clear view of tbe other vessels bow to see an anchor rode.

It is just plain courtesy on the water if nothing else.

Sure, in remote parts, not as big of a deal, but eastern US....it helps more than many think.
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