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07-14-2020, 11:32 AM
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#1
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Guru
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,046
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Head On Collision in The Great Lakes on video
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07-14-2020, 12:25 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
City: Seattle
Vessel Name: Mabuhay
Vessel Model: Grand Alaskan
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 399
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Why and how does happen? Mechanical?
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07-14-2020, 12:26 PM
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#3
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Guru
City: Montgomery
Vessel Name: Choices
Vessel Model: 36 Grand Banks Europa
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 896
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Like where vidoer starts backing up.
__________________
36 Grand Banks Europa
Montgomery, TX
Blog: "grandbankschoices"
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07-14-2020, 01:15 PM
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#4
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Guru
City: Long Beach, CA
Vessel Name: Aquarius
Vessel Model: Californian 55 CPMY
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 719
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It looked like the Florence was heading to port into the other. Might has lost steerage as it was running with the river flow.
__________________
Aquarius 1991 Californian 55 CPMY Long Beach CA
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07-14-2020, 01:21 PM
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#5
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Guru
City: Jacksonville
Vessel Name: SONAS
Vessel Model: Grand Alaskan 53
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,235
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07-14-2020, 02:07 PM
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#6
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Guru
City: Cape May, NJ
Vessel Name: Irish Lady
Vessel Model: Monk 36
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,947
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That could have been a lot worse.
__________________
Archie
Irish Lady
1984 Monk 36 Hull #46
Currently in Cape May, NJ
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07-14-2020, 02:22 PM
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#7
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Guru
City: US PNW
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 943
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This is hearsay of hearsay (a youtube comment then quoted on gcaptain), but it kind of makes sense to me since there were no "5 blasts" and the black ship ("Florence Spirit") looked oddly angled across the canal before the collision.
The black ship suffered a steering failure and was going to charge into the lock system and cause huge amounts of damage. They instructed the red ship to hit and push the black ship into the shore line to make it stop safely. The damage to the ships would be much cheaper and easier to fix then the entire lock system being damaged and out of order for many boats since it a huge shipping channel
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07-14-2020, 02:25 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
City: Seattle
Vessel Name: Mabuhay
Vessel Model: Grand Alaskan
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 399
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That makes sense, glad no one was hurt.
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07-14-2020, 02:35 PM
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#9
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Moderator Emeritus
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 21,131
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You would have thought that the black ship if it had lost steering it would have either gone in reverse or dropped anchors or both.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
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07-14-2020, 03:52 PM
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#10
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Guru
City: Aventura FL
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116 2008
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 10,595
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Ramming speed!!!
A little paint will take care of everything. LOL
Watch this. Here hold my beer.
__________________
Two days out the hospital after a week in the hospital because of a significant heart attack.
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07-14-2020, 04:10 PM
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#11
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Guru
City: US PNW
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comodave
You would have thought that the black ship if it had lost steering it would have either gone in reverse or dropped anchors or both.
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You would, wouldn't you? So maybe the hearsay was wrong (shocking ).
OTOH, I suppose I could imagine if the red ship was already steaming along, then an anchor dropped by the black one could have put it broadside and then a T-bone (if the red one was too late too stop already). I also don't know how quickly they can get an anchor down.
Maybe our own Wayfarer will have some insight.
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07-14-2020, 04:27 PM
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#12
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Guru
City: Aventura FL
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116 2008
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 10,595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by High Wire
That could have been a lot worse.
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Yup, could have taken out the lock for the season.
__________________
Two days out the hospital after a week in the hospital because of a significant heart attack.
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07-14-2020, 05:41 PM
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#13
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Guru
City: Here
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,940
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comodave
You would have thought that the black ship if it had lost steering it would have either gone in reverse or dropped anchors or both.
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Dropping aanchor downstream would likely have caused a full beam collision.
Full reverse would also caused a considerable turn due to prop walk.
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07-14-2020, 08:06 PM
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#14
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Guru
City: Southwest MI
Vessel Name: Sobelle
Vessel Model: C-Dory 22 Cruiser
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosty
...They instructed the red ship to hit and push the black ship into the shore line to make it stop safely. The damage to the ships would be much cheaper and easier to fix then the entire lock system being damaged and out of order for many boats since it a huge shipping channel[/I]
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While your logic makes sense, who has the authority to "instruct" one private vessel to purposely collide with another private vessel? Who pays the damages and liability claims? What if the collider or collidee says no?
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07-14-2020, 08:06 PM
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#15
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Guru
City: Beaufort, NC USA
Vessel Name: Sylphide
Vessel Model: Kingston Aluminum Yacht 44' Custom
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w8n4sun
Why and how does happen? Mechanical?
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It could have been any one of a dozen things. It could have been a steering failure, or it could have been a silly left / right rudder mixup by a seasoned and reliable helmsman.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickyD
It looked like the Florence was heading to port into the other. Might has lost steerage as it was running with the river flow.
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Not much current, if any at all, being that there are locks at either end of this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by High Wire
That could have been a lot worse.
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Much!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosty
This is hearsay of hearsay (a youtube comment then quoted on gcaptain), but it kind of makes sense to me since there were no "5 blasts" and the black ship ("Florence Spirit") looked oddly angled across the canal before the collision.
The black ship suffered a steering failure and was going to charge into the lock system and cause huge amounts of damage. They instructed the red ship to hit and push the black ship into the shore line to make it stop safely. The damage to the ships would be much cheaper and easier to fix then the entire lock system being damaged and out of order for many boats since it a huge shipping channel
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The lack of whistle signals doesn't really surprise me. It was reported that the pilots of both ships were in communication on the radio, so whistle signals wouldn't have been needed.
I hadn't considered an intentional collision, but I'd be awfully surprised it was the case. They may have tried to coordinate how best to hit if they had the time and the ability to do so, but I wouldn't assume so. It looked like it happened without much warning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comodave
You would have thought that the black ship if it had lost steering it would have either gone in reverse or dropped anchors or both.
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That would have been my first few impulses. He may not have had time to drop an anchor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker
Dropping aanchor downstream would likely have caused a full beam collision.
Full reverse would also caused a considerable turn due to prop walk.
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It doesn't look like there was enough width to the channel that either could have turned fully broadside to the creek, but their sides could have been more exposed than they were. If they had to touch, I think they were lucky to meet at the bow flares.
Also, if Florence had gone full astern and propwalked sideways, she may have stuck her bow into the bank and slowed down that way, possibly reducing the total amount of energy of the collision with the other ship. She might also have stuffed her stern into the other bank, doing much more expensive damage to her family jewels.
Propwalk from reversing could explain why Florence was angled toward the wrong side of the road.
Hard to say, really. It's all speculation and armchair captaining on my part. All I can say with any confidence, is that there was a lot of paperwork and heartburn, and not much sleep to be had, and I feel for the poor bastards.
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07-14-2020, 08:20 PM
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#16
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Guru
City: Here
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,940
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comodave
You would have thought that the black ship if it had lost steering it would have either gone in reverse or dropped anchors or both.
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St. Lawrence Seaway Control has absolute authority in the canal sysystem and all locks in the system. The entire system is monitored by video and communication between vessels and Seaway Control is frequent
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07-14-2020, 08:26 PM
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#17
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Guru
City: Here
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,940
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayfarer
Also, if Florence had gone full astern and propwalked sideways, she may have stuck her bow into the bank and slowed down that way, possibly reducing the total amount of energy of the collision with the other ship. She might also have stuffed her stern into the other bank, doing much more expensive damage to her family jewels.
Propwalk from reversing could explain why Florence was angled toward the wrong side of the road.
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The canal is about 130yds wide at that point. The Florence is 136 meters. Planting her bow would have been a disaster.
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07-14-2020, 09:13 PM
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#18
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Guru
City: US PNW
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssobol
While your logic makes sense, who has the authority to "instruct" one private vessel to purposely collide with another private vessel? Who pays the damages and liability claims? What if the collider or collidee says no?
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Just to clarify, I didn't say that. That's why I mentioned it was "hearsay of hearsay" from a gcaptain poster noting that it was in a youtube comment.
I don't know who or if there is someone who would or could do that.
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07-14-2020, 10:30 PM
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#19
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Guru
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,046
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It all will buff out, maybe....
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07-14-2020, 11:34 PM
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#20
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Guru
City: LaConner
Vessel Model: 34' CHB
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,257
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The idea of an intentional ramming, even to stop a wayward ship seems unlikely. Yes, if he hits the locks it a BIG deal, but if there were loss of life on either ship due to an intentional ramming, just imagine the liability of that. Be tough to explain to relatives.
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