Was this explosion necessary?

[GoneDiving]

Ever here the full story on $14,000 dollar toilet seats?


I haven't heard them all but a few make perfect sense and sometimes the not so shameless government contractors manage to slip in a few over charges.


Kinda like a $5 part that is no longer OEM , now costs $99 with $50 shipping/handling charge from XYZ Marine website.

I'm getting way off subject but apparently they were C5 Galaxy seats designed to stop urine corroding airframes. They are now 3D printed at a substantial savings:

https://www.military.com/defensetech/2018/07/11/air-force-no-longer-spending-10000-toilet-seats-officials-say.html

I think you are right when you say lax purchasing control allowed contractors to milk pricing for all it's worth. Specialisation and limited supplies just make it worse. Look at "marine" parts vs domestic or industrial. I'm a diver and pricing and availability of "life sustaining" retention devices is multiples of a 316 bolt at Bunnings/Harbour Freight. Don't even get me started on service intervals and pricing. ?

 

[OldDan1943]

Maybe if you are fortunate you might find a few videos of a shock test of nuclear subs too. Watch that equipment jump up and down on the mounts.
I was onboard the Madison when it went to test depth before going in yard for maintenance. I think the Navy believe, let's see what we can break for we take it to the yard. LOL

 

[dannc]

Yes. I agree. I believe they did not do it for the newly designed littoral class ships. (There was some sort of controversy surrounding it something where they only used 10k worth and delayed it until after commissioning)

The littorals would crack up if they did that. They have never been able to traverse the panama canal without an incident... Great to have a ship so expensive that they had to cancel the ammunition because we can't afford it.

Per GCaptain, the LCS class was tested, https://gcaptain.com/watch-u-s-navys-new-supercarrier-undergoes-bolt-rattling-shock-trials/

The Navy has conducted FSSTs over several decades, most recently for the Littoral Combat Ships USS Jackson (LCS 6) and USS Milwaukee (LCS 5) in 2016;​

LCS 5 is a Freedom class monohull and LCS 6 is the Independence class trimaran.

Later,
Dan

 

[slowgoesit]

Yes. I agree. I believe they did not do it for the newly designed littoral class ships. (There was some sort of controversy surrounding it something where they only used 10k worth and delayed it until after commissioning)

The littorals would crack up if they did that. They have never been able to traverse the panama canal without an incident... Great to have a ship so expensive that they had to cancel the ammunition because we can't afford it.

Never let government contractors tell you what they think you need.

Maybe that's why they are now "retiring" the first 4 LCS' to commission. The "oldest" being only 13 years old. There were so many problems discovered that they are not economically repairable to be up to standards. Perhaps if they had done more rigorous testing, they may have actually reached the 25 year minimum service life there were supposedly designed for!

dannc, both the Freedom, and the Independence are being prematurely "retired" after 13 and 11 years in service. Two other, newer ones are also being retired as well.

 

[catalinajack]

Why would one assume that, it's the government...

Ah, yes, another guy who believes the government cannot do anything correctly as if private industry never makes mistakes. Tell me, who was it that landed the first man on the moon?

 

[stubones99]

Ah, yes, another guy who believes the government cannot do anything correctly as if private industry never makes mistakes. Tell me, who was it that landed the first man on the moon?

I think it was RCA, who was the NASA prime contractor during the early Apollo days...

What most people don't know is NASA is an acronym for is "Not A Space Agency" since they always have a contractor (or dozens) to do the heavy lifting. I think the last time a NASA rocket left the launch pad was the Mercury missions...

Now we have ULA, who is way over budget, way over schedule and hopes to send a test mission to space sometime this summer, using retired space shuttle engines...

 

[psneeld]

Well NASA might not have been the best example, but it wears the same mantle as the great auto industries and many other industry that always claim "the recall/crash/ delay isn't our fault...it's our suppliers"....


Plenty of incompetence to go around.....

 

[Redhook98]

All systems designed to go on any Navy ship are shock tested prior to installation onboard the ship, and then again as an entire package (like in the video). This is very common for a first-in-class or major change. System shock testing is done in several areas of the country. The smaller, system-level testing is held mostly in highly controlled small lakes and such owned by the contractors handling the testing. You can Google videos of what it looks like inside the ship during the larger scale testing when a shock test is conducted. THEN you will understand why this is 100% necessary. You can literally lose an entire system due to bad shock mounting if it not done correctly.

 

[Group9]

https://www.illinoisreview.com/illinoisreview/2013/08/thorner-at-sea-with-admiral-rickover-and-the-loss-of-the-nuclear-sub-uss-thresher.html

Interesting article about shock testing and submarines.

 

[diver dave]

IIRC. Mil spec -901 outlines shipboard impulse/shock testing. “Small” stuff is conveniently tested with a swing weight wacking your item under test. “Large” products (ships) will require explosives to generate enough of a pressure wave to meet the standard.

U dont want ur gyros to fall off its bearings. [emoji33]

 

[psneeld]

Anyone who has ever operated equipment for real but tested only in laboratory conditions will wince unless the tests were "space flight quality or better".


Just look at "anchor testing" in general and how that is debated ad nauseum by people with real experiences.

 

[localboy]

I bet the Chinese rigorously test all their military equipment.

Just saying.

 

[psneeld]

I bet the Chinese rigorously test all their military equipment.

Just saying.

Based on my military news briefings...we are not too sure exactly what the Chinese military capabilities are, how well they are tested or not.

 

[Medic]

Explosion

Well, had I been aboard the ship in an actual wartime scenario I would be happy to know that survival in a near-miss would have been tested. The "big elephant" in the room is, I guess, what would have been the outcome had the explosion been from a direct hit.

As usual, when I think about things like this, which is not often thank God, I tend to think about the sailors who are deep in the bowels of the ship.

War sucks, I think we would all agree. But as long as human evil exists we must be prepared to protect our country and the countries of our allies, and so thanks to those who serve.

I also think about the soldiers, sailors, and airmen who have served, and having fulfilled their usefulness are quickly forgotten. As a paramedic, I have attended to a number of these in their homes, or in their cardboard boxes, or whatever. I don't believe even one of them was a former general or admiral.

And in that vein, I don't believe any were former politicians.

All a topic for a whole different forum. But God bless those who serve.

 

[toocoys]

I'm wondering what the environmental costs of the tests are, and how long does it take an area affected by such a shock wave to recover? Do they recover at all?

 

[dannc]

...
dannc, both the Freedom, and the Independence are being prematurely "retired" after 13 and 11 years in service. Two other, newer ones are also being retired as well.

Yes, the first four ships in the classes are being retired because they were used for testing, were not upgraded to the level of the newer ships and the cost to upgrade is not worth paying, so says the Navy. Which completely negates the earlier comments that these ships were not tested. They were.

Testing though does not touch the larger questions of the utility of these ships, their cost, and if the concept of how these ships were to be used and manned made any sense.

There has been a trend recently to put ships and planes into production before the design is finished to see how they perform. Then take information from using the platforms to update the design. The F35 has done this for example. One can argue if how this is being done is the correct process.

The Chinese do this with at quite a few of their ship and sub classes.

Later,
Dan

 

[psneeld]

The USCG tested the theory to let civilian contractors to "see into the future" and design, construct appropriate platforms.

So far hit or miss at best, no better or worse than internal design and construction IMO.

I was approached by Cessna during the early prelim meeting as they were curious about my "out of the box approach". Really nothing more than what some other actual operators also thought.same when for the closing of Brooklyn/Cape May Airstas and opening of Atlantic City to save the taxpayer huge refit/operating dollars.

 

[raised kk36]

People complain about military spending until we REALLY NEED it.

Freedom isn't free

pete

Tired of the snowflakes not understanding this...

 

[Alaskaflyer]

Tired of the snowflakes not understanding this...

Tired of silly name calling by supposedly mature adults.

 

[toocoys]

Tired of silly name calling by supposedly mature adults.

Thank you for eloquently stating what I was having trouble finding the words for.

 

[Northern Spy]

The sub I was on was tentatively slated to undergo depth charge testing when it came out of the yards from overhaul. As it was a first flight hull modified to a second flight hull without VLS. It was to be a volunteer crew. Most of us, including me, volunteered. Alas, it didn't happen as our overhaul was extended. This was back in the 80s. So yeah explosive testing has had a precedence for a quite a while.

Of course, as a submariner, explosive testing of a skimmer seems wasteful and redundant.

 

[friz]

Shock trials are a common phase of acceptance testing for new construction. So yes, the test was necessary but I don't find that the question was.

 

[bjp447]

Definitely fish for dinner tonight!!

 

[toocoys]

Definitely fish for dinner tonight!!

...and tomorrow night. And the next night. And the night after that. And the night after that. And the night after that. And the night after that.


<it's now 2031>

And the night after that. And the night after that. And the night after that. And the night after that.

 

[Smorss2011]

And your experience in certifying warships is?

And your reason for taking on a snide tone it?

 

[Smorss2011]

Shock trials are a common phase of acceptance testing for new construction. So yes, the test was necessary but I don't find that the question was.

I appreciated the question, but not snarky replies like yours.

 

[Smorss2011]

Tired of the snowflakes not understanding this...

Tired of people using the term "snowflakes" because they aren't creative enough to think on their own.

 

[psneeld]

And your reason for taking on a snide tone it?

Because so many post here about things they have no clue of....

If he did have experience worth a crap on the subject, all he had to do is post so and I would recognize it and then respect further posts on the subject.

If he didn't, phrasing it more like " I found this interesting" would probably not make me post at all, but the word "necessary" makes it sound like the government goes around doing things wWilly nilly.....

....and frankly the world is screwed up enough at all levels I am tired of hearing how bad the government is when most of my days are fighting big business, not the government.

 

[OldDan1943]

psneeld and others, if I read your comment correctly, please understand, some information cannot be reviled for security reasons.
If you asked me, did I ever serve in the US armed forces, I would proudly respond, "I served onboard nuclear powered submarines, trained in nuclear power propulsion." You could feel free to ask additional questions about submarines and I would answer them except when I feel you may be seeking Top Secret or Secret or Confidential information. Even after all these years, I am still bound to the 'promise not to confirm nor disclose, under penalty of prison time.' any such information. Even at my great age of 78 years old, I maintain, I am still too pretty to go to prison.

Explosive tests and other tests are usually performed on the first ship or sub of a new class and also just prior to going in for an upgrade or refit. Then on submarines, depth test are performed after they leave the yard. This how we lost the submarine Thresher, its entire crew plus some yard workers. (112 crew members and 17 civilian contractors)

Again, IF I understood your comment correctly, please accept, somethings will not be disclosed, for security reasons. And yes, civilian contractors are subject to the same 'secrets act'.

If I misunderstood your comment, please forgive me.

 

[psneeld]

Old Dan, not sure who you are answering but It's not me. I know of your Navy experience and believe your input in this thread. Not because I am sure of it, but have no reason to doubt it.

My last post was because to me, the OP sounded like the Navy does things like this on a whim.

All for something but not sure why they did it? Just ask then.....like.....

Anyone know why the Navy does these kinds of tests?