Dual anchor windlass vs single anchor?

[hrk]

We are new to boating, buying a 60’ new build from a reputable vendor. See my other thread on why and how we made that decision. But, now i am getting into figuring out options. One of the options i have heard some opinions from he vendor is about having single windlass anchor system versus having a dual one.
Wonder what the more experienced ones than us in this forum would say is the preferred one.

A bit more about boat type, normal cruising ground etc is perhaps needed to offer opinion. Ours will be full displacement trawler. Plan is for first two years be on east coast, maine to bahamas and to Caribbean islands. Afterwards, not entirely sure. I would do a year or two in med. my wife would probably prefer taking the boat to west coast (cross panama canal) and keep boat in PNW, do an alaska trip. We will be full time live aboards.

hrk

 

[w8n4sun]

If you have the room, I vote dual. It’s nice to have redundancy plus the extra weight of your chain to help keep the bow down and bash through rough seas.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Some believe in a lunch hook and a storm anchor. Has a lot of merit I think.

Obviously one could have light tackle on one capstan/gypsy and heavy on the other. But how heavy/light the difference would make a quite different system.

Always (I think) that whenever more than one anchor is considered .. different anchors should be employed. The biggest difference would best be (IMO) two anchors that covered a different (hard/soft) seabed. Striving, of course to cover the widest range of seabed range. Ideally one would have a rode and anchor that would do best in slimy mud to typical bottom for the skipper’s boating area. Another rode for very hard bottom to typical bottom. Since “typical bottom” would be see the most use more than a bit of overlap would be welcome.

The two most important performance features are probably setting ability and dependability. Followed by holding power at moderate scopes.
The storm anchor would likely have mostly or all chain rode.
The day hook (that would be usually used for night anchoring) would likely have a slightly longer rode w about 40/60 chain/line combination. Add provisions for line extensions to keep the boat off a windward beach w an onshore wind w a loss of propulsion power.

The above is more to stimulate ideas that to spec a system.
Used in a similar way to the above the dual output windlass would be a significant advantage.
But small trawlers may enjoy the simplicity of a single system better. An anchor w a wide range of abilities in hardness and other bottom conditions would be necessary.

 

[rslifkin]

For a 60+ footer, I'd say a dual windlass / roller setup is worth consideration. That's getting to the size where a big Fortress for backup is a bit much to manage by hand, let alone anything else as a secondary. And at that size, the weight of a second anchor and rode on the bow is less of a concern.

 

[Solly]

You would certainly hope there would be enough room on the rollers and/or bowsprite, to carry and launch which ever 2 anchors you decide on. That might make it easy to decide. And what is the builders opinion ??

 

[Simi 60]

When you say dual are you talking two seperate vertical windlass or a single horizontal with a chain wheel on either side?

 

[hrk]

Builders opinion..

You would certainly hope there would be enough room on the rollers and/or bowsprite, to carry and launch which ever 2 anchors you decide on. That might make it easy to decide. And what is the builders opinion ??

Vendor contact person believes that nobody he has dealt with as broker actually second roller and anchor system rarely gets deployed so why have it.

As for which anchors, i have been watching SV Panape videos a lot. It looks we will want sarca excel or rochna as primary (400’ chain) and fortress with chain and rope, but that is just my thoughts for now. Decision to have second roller bowsprit is probably need to be made earlier.

HRK

 

[hrk]

When you say dual are you talking two seperate vertical windlass or a single horizontal with a chain wheel on either side?

I was thinking of two separate windlesses. But, not sure pros and cons of single horizontal one with chain wheels on both sides.

 

[ranger58sb]

One of the options i have heard some opinions from he vendor is about having single windlass anchor system versus having a dual one.

A bit more about boat type, normal cruising ground etc is perhaps needed to offer opinion. Ours will be full displacement trawler. Plan is for first two years be on east coast, maine to bahamas and to Caribbean islands. Afterwards, not entirely sure. I would do a year or two in med. my wife would probably prefer taking the boat to west coast (cross panama canal) and keep boat in PNW, do an alaska trip. We will be full time live aboards.

I'd vote for dual, including dual rollers. Given your intent to move the boat here and yon, which in turn likely means different substrate here and yon, having two different anchor types immediately available would seem to me to be a plus.

Also... if you install a single, then decide to switch later... installing additional rollers after-the-fact could be more difficult... seems easier to do that right up front.

-Chris

 

[jleonard]

Definately go with 2 anchors and 2 different styles/types. I've used two on many occasions and also needed and had different types.
Each anchor should be capable of an overnight as I do not believe in a "lunch hook".
If you're going to anchor, then anchor and be secure.

 

[sunchaser]

I was thinking of two separate windlesses. But, not sure pros and cons of single horizontal one with chain wheels on both sides.

Two separate windlasses is my vote. Losing a windlass motor is a very real possibility. When cruising far away from a parts store, onboard redundancy is essential. Insure that bow setup will accept moving deployed chain from one windlass to the other.

 

[jleonard]

Two separate windlasses is my vote. Losing a windlass motor is a very real possibility. When cruising far away from a parts store, onboard redundancy is essential. Insure that bow setup will accept moving deployed chain from one windlass to the other.

Or snapping a shear pin. Happened to me while in lower Lake Champlain.
I spent the next 2 plus hours on the bow taking the windlass apart and replacing the pin while my first mate ran the boat. I missed a lot of the beautiful scenery, but the windlass lived again.

 

[twistedtree]

Work through in every detail exactly how you would operate with two windlasses. Two complete rodes? How do they stow in the chain locker? Are they both all chain, or is one chain and the other a combination? Two anchors? The same of different? Will the secondary be removed and stowed, and only brought out when needed? Or will both be parked on rollers? And will they really fit without interfering with each other?


And what are the scenarios you are protecting against? A windlass failure? Failed with anchor down? Failed with anchor up? Anchor lost overboard?


If you are contemplating using a second windlass you haul and anchor where the first windlass has broken, step through exactly how you will get the anchor chain off the broken windless, threaded out of the bow roller, moved over to and threaded through the other bow roller, engaged in the backup windlass so you can start hauling again. And remember, there will be about 1000 lbs of tension on the chain when you are doing this. And does the second windlass have a gypse that is compatible with your chain, or is it set up for a rope/chain combo?


I'm not arguing for or against dual windlasses. Just encouraging that if you have dual windlasses, but sure it will actually help you. I've seen a number where the idea is to use the backup windlass to haul the anchor when teh primary windlass has failed. But I have no idea how they would get the chain with a 1000 lbs of weight on it moved over to the other roller and other windlass.

 

[Mako]

You stated a Rocna and a Fortress (obviously set at 45 degrees). Great combo.

However, what is the weight of the Fortress plus chain plus 2-gypsy windlass? Is that another 200 pounds?

Put that 200 extra pounds into your primary Rocna. Make it a monster and you'll sleep tight on 1.5:1 scope in mud, rock, martian soil, anything on Earth.

Then get a Fortress to keep stored as a stern or kedge, on 6ft of chain and 8-plait.

 

[guy with a boat]

I agree with Mako’s point and TT’s analysis suggestions.

Personally, I’m a believer in going with a single unit and taking good care of it. Dual systems get complicated, and make use and maintenance more difficult and less likely to be perfect. Maintenance is twice as hard with two units and its easier to ignore because you have a spare. My single engine and single windlass get maintenance and inspections by the book since we are dependent on them.

Size the equipment correctly and your finger/foot on the windlass power button won’t know if its a lunch hook or a storm hook, so get one setup you trust and use it. That’s my opinion and what we do.

 

[FF]

Having a great way to recover the anchoring setup is second to having multiple anchor selection , complete with chain , line and ready to use should "stuff happen" to the on deck gear.

 

[sunchaser]

Right you are FF.

With some rigging experience many scenarios can be dealt with. I've seen people use a dinghy davit to pull up a sizeable anchor.

As well as a properly laid out second windlass, another good setup is a warping drum on the foredeck (we have neither and are fully prepared to dump the chain and anchor if need be). With a pre-made chain hook rope combination the primary anchor chain can easily (time consuming though, I've done it on a sailboat) be brought up, and restowed. Ultimately, a good onboard chain cutter can come in handy to assist in switching retrieval points and stowage.

Guy is correct, maintain what you have, though seldom a followed task. Which brings to mind, how many boaters religiously go by the windlass book for maintenance? Open that book up and you may well be surprised as to what needs to be done and by who - I was so surprised two years ago when the Maxwell seals started leaking.

 

[hrk]

going to go with two windlasses

thanks everyone for chiming in. I am going to go with dual windlass option - one with 24DCV and other with hydrolics powered. One will be for fortress with chain rod combo and other either Sarca or Rocna with 400' ft 1/2 all chain.

the choice is governed mainly for us likely to be at many different types of holding grounds - Maine to Caribbean Islands, Med coast and PNW and west coast incluindg Alaska. Hope to send next 7 years (after we comminssion boat) cruising!

Thanks again for responding and educating me about this option.

hrk

 

[monti]

We are new to our 2003 Jefferson 53. My question is regarding windless and anchors … Can the flapper latch on the chain by the winless Be used instead of a snubber line? Is it strong enough to set and hold an anchor?

 

[ranger58sb]

Perhaps you mean a chain stopper, and its purpose is to take strain off the windless. A snubbed then takes strain off the chain, and usually makes for a quieter night.

-Chris