Dock Line Length...

[Osprey69]

So the old saying of bow and stern 1 X length and spring 1.5 X length still hold true for a 49' bow and stern lines? I understand 1.5 for spring. But trying to tame the length when maneuvering close in. I am speaking of transient docking lines vs. at-the-slip-docking-lines. Bow and stern at 35' enough?

While I am at it. Braided or 3 strand? I like 3 strand for elasticity.

Thanks in advance.

 

[jleonard]

So the old saying of bow and stern 1 X length and spring 1.5 X length still hold true for a 49' bow and stern lines? I understand 1.5 for spring. But trying to tame the length when maneuvering close in. I am speaking of transient docking lines vs. at-the-slip-docking-lines. Bow and stern at 35' enough?

While I am at it. Braided or 3 strand? I like 3 strand for elasticity.

Thanks in advance.

I also prefer 3 strand. Plus I know how to splice it and I normally make my own lines.
I think I had 30 ft for bow and stern and 4 ft for spring for my 40 ft Albin.
Plus I had more spare lines in case those were not lone enough or for storm tie down.
I did have 1 braided line for the stern that went to a piling where I didn't have the slip width for any stretch.

 

[Gdavid]

So the old saying of bow and stern 1 X length and spring 1.5 X length still hold true for a 49' bow and stern lines? I understand 1.5 for spring. But trying to tame the length when maneuvering close in. I am speaking of transient docking lines vs. at-the-slip-docking-lines. Bow and stern at 35' enough?

While I am at it. Braided or 3 strand? I like 3 strand for elasticity.

Thanks in advance.

1 x vessel length for bow and stern lines seems excessive for a 49' boat. I think 35' would suffice. It is good to have an extra spring line or two for traveling as you never know when you may be put in an oversized slip, so an extra spring line or two that could be used as stern lines in a pinch would be nice to have on hand. For most docking maneuvers, having too long of a line is cumbersome and could increase the odds of it finding it's way into your running gear.

 

[rgano]

So the old saying of bow and stern 1 X length and spring 1.5 X length still hold true for a 49' bow and stern lines? I understand 1.5 for spring. But trying to tame the length when maneuvering close in. I am speaking of transient docking lines vs. at-the-slip-docking-lines. Bow and stern at 35' enough?

While I am at it. Braided or 3 strand? I like 3 strand for elasticity.

Thanks in advance.

In general, I found us moored alongside for transient situations which required less (a LOT less) line than mooring between piles in a slip. You have to be prepared for both situations. The springs will probably be similar length in each situation, but the bow and stern breast lines will be quite different. For that reason, I found it convenient to have a couple of shorter lines handy for the bow and stern when cruising. When we got assigned to some gigundo wide slip, it was nice to have my two 40-foot long stern lines to cross over the stern, around the pilings on either side and thence back to the boat.

 

[High Wire]

Agree with thumb rule being a bit long.
How about:
2@25
2@35
2@40
2@50
Try those out for starters and add what works best.
Make sure you get big loops on one end ie about 2 feet diameter minimum. I buy a spool and custom make my own lines. Mark the ends for length. I use heavy wall heat shrink tubing.

 

[tpbrady]

Not knowing of any place where we aren’t tying to bull rails or rarely cleats, my lines are 30 for bow and 20 for all the others on a 42 ft boat. They are more than enough. I guess if I ever encountered pilings I might be in trouble, but have never seen them.

 

[Osprey69]

Agree with thumb rule being a bit long.
How about:
2@25
2@35
2@40
2@50
Try those out for starters and add what works best.
Make sure you get big loops on one end ie about 2 feet diameter minimum. I buy a spool and custom make my own lines. Mark the ends for length. I use heavy wall heat shrink tubing.

Yup...agree with this strategy and all replies. Thank you. Big fan of long back-up lines, but not a big fan of a clod of line when when it is not necessary.

 

[rgano]

Not knowing of any place where we aren’t tying to bull rails or rarely cleats, my lines are 30 for bow and 20 for all the others on a 42 ft boat. They are more than enough. I guess if I ever encountered pilings I might be in trouble, but have never seen them.

Yes, pilings in a 20-foot wide slip set up for a sixty foot boat will quickly exhaust the normal mooring line budget of a 42-foot Grand Banks. Time for that fiber anchor rode to be broken out!

 

[Wayfarer]

I use heavy wall heat shrink tubing.

Hey, that's a good idea. I wonder how well something like that would work for chafe gear. Maybe throw some on where my lines bend over the deck edge... Might help with line-squeak, too. Interesting.

 

[Comodave]

Hey, that's a good idea. I wonder how well something like that would work for chafe gear. Maybe throw some on where my lines bend over the deck edge... Might help with line-squeak, too. Interesting.

For chaffing gear you don’t want anything waterproof, like shrink tube or hose. It stops rain water from getting in to lubricate the fibers in the line and to cool the line fibers. Nylon can melt from the heat from friction. Davis makes some canvas velcro on chaffing gear that I like. Water can get in and the velcro holds it in place pretty well.

 

[High Wire]

Hey, that's a good idea. I wonder how well something like that would work for chafe gear. Maybe throw some on where my lines bend over the deck edge... Might help with line-squeak, too. Interesting.

I get my heat shrink at an online electronics supplier. A 4 ft length of 1 1/4" adhesive lined is about $10-20. I cut 1/2" and 1/4" rings. A 1/2" = 10 ft, 1/4" = 5 ft. So a 25 ft line has two - 1/2" and one - 1/4" rings on the tag end of the line. Makes it easy for the mate to choose lines. I tried getting fancy with color electrical tape but it did not stay on long.
For chafe protection I use 1" ID clear PVC hot water hose in a bunch of lengths as needed.

 

[FF]

Coil a line you now have and see how far you could toss it to a dock.


2 of that length would be a good start.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

My dock lines are generally about the length of the boat. I have a couple which are far shorter, they are easier to toss. I don't rely on them for security but use them to keep the boat closer to the dock when there is an off dock wind or current. I also have one stern line which is about 2X boat length and a bow line which is even longer. I rarely use the long bow line but keep it coiled and hanging for whatever emergency arrives.

My boat is only 36 feet but heavy and catches a lot of wind. When I leave the boat for more than a few hours I use at least seven braided dock lines.

pete

 

[Group9]

We always have one boat length line for docking when cruising. I tie it to a bow cleat and then run it all the way aft. Then when single-handed docking, I just pull up parallel to the dock, and step off with the long bow line in one hand and the shorter Stern line in the other. I quickly tie the stern line off to something and then even if the bow drifts away I can just pull it back in and tie it off.

 

[Hippocampus]

As with anything in boating think “it depends “. If you’re going full finger pier to full finger pier it’s one thing. If you Med moor it’s another. If you use pilings a third. Think the ends wear first. So make up long ones which are cut down as time goes on. Normally cut, burn, glue and whip ends but don’t like loops. Often before leaving have removed most of my lines but left one or two looped around a cleat and brought back to the boat. Which one(s) depends on wind and current. Don’t like people jumping on or off the boat coming in or leaving. We generally throw a loop around a cleat coming in and between that and engine/thruster(s) get along side. Then secure another one if necessary. That allows us to step not jump off or on the boat at our leisure. We avoid dockhands catching lines for us if we can. They never listen and often screw you up. So all that means you need longer lines at times.

 

[psneeld]

All in all..... a line to long has excess that can be coiled up.... but too many, too long can be a pain to store.



A line too short is....well now....is just in the way until you tie 2 together.


So for traveling lines, if you have an idea of mos of the places you will tie up are, do a few simple sketches to see how long you need.


Unless you are in huge tide areas (and places like Georgia mostly have floating docks), very long springs are often needed in my experience for transient work.


I too like long lines for transient work. I like a loop on one end as it minimizes line on smaller cleats. The lop stays on the boat and the line goes around the dock cleat or piling in such a manner that the bitter end comes back to the same cleat. When departing (usually solo or as good as), I can go to a cleat and bring the line back aboard without moving by untying the bitter end and flipping the line off the cleat or pulling it around the piling.



I just did it to calculate my hurricane line length. Till I could picture in my mind the possible different combinations, some lengths of line were over/under what I wound up using.

 

[FWT]

When I was young, a wise waterman taught me there are only two sizes of rope that matter: long enough, and too short.

Yeah you can overdo it, but err on the side of too long. Come replacement time, if you find you NEVER used a long length, NOT ONCE, then you can reduce. Then.

Its kinda like a decision to go up one size on anchors. Where its a case of big enough, and not big enough, which you only discover when it matters most.

 

[FF]

One good question is should the line being tossed ti shore float to keep it clear of the prop?

The floating line is usually weaker , and may not have enough mass to be tossed very far., "monkey fist" at one end might help.

 

[Hippocampus]

Shouldn’t need floating line. Practice in a full keel sailboat without thrusters if you can. Then a twin or single with a thruster will be a piece of cake. All of use have had occasions where either current or wind was more than a electric thruster could handle. Springs are useful as is propwash. But I think most folks will do fine if they practice coming along side a buoy without using thruster(s). Unfortunately most of us are in boats big enough they can do damage and be damaged but small enough wind and current are concerns. Docking is the most stressful thing for me personally. Big sigh of relief if I do it cleanly. May not be pretty but if no damage I’m a happy camper. Had it drilled into me “slow is pro” and to always think about getting out and trying again if things aren’t going well. I’ve found a little powwow before the approach to be helpful. Tell the bride or other crew what I’m thinking of doing and why.also who does what. Seems to have helped.
FF you seem a skilled and experienced guy. Think your point is valid if you single a lot. Otherwise not so much. Sure you dock better than I do but floating line deteriorates so fast in the sun haven’t gone to using it for that purpose. We do use it as a dinghy painter but that’s it.

 

[skyhawk]

For chaffing gear you don’t want anything waterproof, like shrink tube or hose. It stops rain water from getting in to lubricate the fibers in the line and to cool the line fibers. Nylon can melt from the heat from friction. Davis makes some canvas velcro on chaffing gear that I like. Water can get in and the velcro holds it in place pretty well.

that's an interesting perspective, and not intuitive for me. Seems more pressing that you wouldn't want it to hold whatever water in that does find it's way inside....

 

[psneeld]

that's an interesting perspective, and not intuitive for me. Seems more pressing that you wouldn't want it to hold whatever water in that does find it's way inside....

Pretty sure it might be info from BoatUS Hurricane damage teams that look at the reasons claims are made. Internal friction heat weakens the line. Of course if the tubing is not tight, not sure why water wouldn't still wick it's way in...but further tests showed polyester chafe guards with their slippery makeup reduced friction the most.....and let water in.


Met one of the head investigators once, pretty knowledgeable guy.

 

[Hippocampus]

We go to the local fire department. Get fire hose they’re throwing out. Sew one end to the line depending upon how it’s being used and size of the line. Seems to have worked through the years and it’s free. Otherwise use the store bought Velcro attached ones. Been told black is better. Don’t know if that’s true.