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Old 09-23-2018, 11:27 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
But I would rather the thread get back on track on WHY it IS or ISN'T possible to mitigate boat damage when a hurricane threatens.
Kudos Ted. You get it.

In Fl and other Caribbean locales hurricanes threaten every year. Where and intensity is a short term guess but long term it is rising up very high in % occurrence for most of the Gulf Coast and Islands. For this reason most big yacht policies have a move it or lose it clause. Some big yacht Captains move it very far, like to the Med.

PSN is raising valid points about relocating. For good reason. With so many boats hardly ever moving anytime from their slip, the direct, environmental and peripheral damage caused by these dock queens is guaranteed and enormous when hurricane season arrives.

The insurance industry will continue to tighten the screws, move it or lose it may well become a standard for smaller at risk boats and marinas. Kinda makes one yearn for a nice trailer boat, like a Ranger Tug or Sea Piper.
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Old 09-23-2018, 03:33 PM   #142
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As I said, "Pit us against each other" Your anger shows.



When you separate the group so that all people with100% chance are separated from those with 50% chance you have defeated the purpose of "spreading the risk". I all the people in the group have 100% chance then the risk is not spread.
I see the problem.

You don't understand insurance. You seem to think that if a person is 100% at risk, he should be able to buy insurance. If you wrecked a new car every year, you think that you should have insurance for the same price as everyone else. What's the incentive to keep people from "accidentally" driving their car into the river? Let's see, I blew the engine in my car, and it accidentally went swimming.

Property and liability insurance is designed to cover you for a very unlikely event. If an event is likely to happen, insurance premiums should be high to get you to reduce the risk. Can you not see that offering lower premiums for people who make an effort to reduce their risk, is a good thing?

I think you equate property and liability insurance with health care insurance. 50 years ago, health insurance was just that, insurance against illnesses and accidents. Most people didn't use their insurance each year. Now health insurance is really more a healthcare plan that everybody is expected to use each year. As a result healthcare has morphed into a right regardless of how risky a lifestyle a person has. Want to be a heroine addict? No problem, insurance has to cover it, again and again and again. You're probably wondering why your healthcare costs keep going up also.

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Old 09-23-2018, 03:49 PM   #143
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Why should a person who chooses to avoid or reduce risks have to subsidize those who don't? We own a home 30 miles from the coast. Why should my premium be based on the same risk factor as the homes 100 yards from the ocean? I see nothing wrong with incentivizing good choices and good behavior.

I agree completely.

I know a guy that had a beach house that was destroyed by Sandy. He couldn’t rebuild what was destroyed. The gov authority (not sure if it was the county, municipal, or New Jersey) wouldn’t give him a building permit unless he met certain requirements. He was able to build on the land he owned but he had to build it raise 10’ on pilings. He was willing to do it, he put a carport and some storage below the beach house.

To me that makes sense. Let folks rebuild IF they take into account the known risks.
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Old 09-23-2018, 03:55 PM   #144
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Just as I said, "Pit us against each other"


Not at all. It is about having individuals and groups pay for their own decisions. Choose to live in an area at risk for flooding, then you get to pay the premiums for insurance coverage. I live in a location that simply can’t flood. I certainly am not going to subsidize someone’s decision to accept a flood risk.

Likewise, I live in an area that is at serious risk for earthquake. Why should someone else pay to mitigate the risks that I choose to take by living where I do?
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Old 09-23-2018, 03:59 PM   #145
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Jimibell, you are making some statements about insurance that are based on emotion, rather than facts.
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Old 09-23-2018, 04:31 PM   #146
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Jimibell, you are making some statements about insurance that are based on emotion, rather than facts.
Amen....it's popular to hate insurance and all involved, but the reality is the insurance industry provides services most of us need. They aren't the enemy. I disagree with the industry and specific insurers sometimes, but that doesn't make me turn on them or label them the devil.

Now, we have people railing on insurance companies and far away from the thread about New Bern and others hurt so badly by this storm. I just saw this morning the video of the firemen washing the dead fish off of I-40. Something else no one anticipated.
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Old 09-26-2018, 09:14 PM   #147
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[QUOTE=Simi 60;699128]
I don't know the area but wouldn't somewhere like upper broad creek or offshoots of the trent river provide good shelter?
Seems to be reasonable depth a long way up into it.


I had a boat in New Bern and did this up the Trent for an earlier hurricane. Took many precautions. No damage. Still with the size of this past one, it would've been dicey the way I did it. But the Trent has high banks and lots of wind shielding. Plus it's deep. It can be done, but you'd need to anchor away from falling and blowing projectiles and that can be a roll of the dice. Marinas have more projectiles and things to bump. One of the other posters had it right - lots more responsibilities on land to worry about the boat. Keep your insurance current.
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Old 09-27-2018, 09:18 AM   #148
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I don't know the area but wouldn't somewhere like upper broad creek or offshoots of the trent river provide good shelter?
Seems to be reasonable depth a long way up into it.
So, more on what Ben said. Upper Broad *IS* a great place to ride out a storm at anchor. In fact, most of Blackbeard Sailing Club marina, which is located right there in Upper Broad, anchored there and they had a 100% survival rate. It's wide with a soft, muddy bottom that holds great. Additionally, the east wind was definitely favorable for that anchorage.

Ben and I are friends, but I always felt that, while successful, riding out a storm as he did, tied to a tree in a narrow creek, was pretty reckless. And I have told him that. However, it worked for him... It was his "plan". So I can criticize it until the cows come home, he had his own reasons for doing it and it is his call --- NOT mine. All I can do is hope he doesn't die. Period.

What's my point? I guess is that there are no absolutes. We stayed in a hurricane hole marina and survived while others didn't. (see attached image from a marina friend) Some say that was reckless. One marina in New Bern with floating docks got destroyed while another one, just like it, survived without a scratch. These storms move around. One change of direction that causes the wind to come from the west or the south would have changed everything.

If everyone that owns a boat with the means to move hundreds of miles out of the way of storms like this were the only people that made up the community, that community would be TINY. There would be no West Marine, no Defender, all marinas would be expensive, and towns wouldn't roll out the welcome wagon for the few people visiting by water. It's boaters like us, the middle-class boaters that DO need loans to afford it, that have raised the boating experience for everyone. Well, and Ronald Regan's huge tax cuts in the 80's that flooded the market with overseas built boats. So don't fault us for having to stay put when storms come. I can assure you, we do not WANT to stay. The anxiety Bess and I went thru I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.


I can assure you, the insurance companies study the risks and apply things like 5x deductibles to manage their own risk. The next time you're in an airplane over, say, Miami. Look down. Every house has people in it that are paying some form of insurance... well, maybe 99%. It may not all be marine insurance, but regardless, that pool is huge. That is the reason insurance companies rarely go bankrupt.


Sorry... I ended up rambling.



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Old 09-27-2018, 11:35 AM   #149
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I recognize and respect Tom’s caution on storms. He and I differ on the limits of storm preparedness and actions. My experience comes from growing up on the Chesapeake Bay the first 20 years of my life and having 15 years more direct boating ownership time on the Neuse since the early 90s.

Knowing the flow pattern, depth, wind shear, bank height, and hydrodynamics of the narrow and lengthy Trent River against the wind tides of the Neuse is extremely important. The Trent is a perpendicular branch off the Neuse and there is a significant lag in the timing effects of the regional wind tide.

Experiences of past hurricanes Emily, Fran, Floyd, Irma, Irene, Matthew, Arthur with boats give an incredible portfolio of data for the region. In the picture above, my boat would have been tied on the upper dock with at least eight (of 31) boats showing damaged or on the docks (30%+ major damage probability). Some marinas farther south on the Neuse have an anchoring plan to avoid this scenario and have escaped this in the past.

Everyone must consider the least risk options for their experience, comfort level, and judgment based on their individual and family priorities. Hurricane anchoring plans are one option which I personally have found to be successful.
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Old 09-27-2018, 12:13 PM   #150
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As much as I talk about mitigating possible damages, I am just as adamant that not all solutions work all the time...no matter what they are.

Having just one plan is just as potentially disasterous as no plan. If you can't be flexible changing tactics or plans....best to just follow the best average shot and execute to the fullest.
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Old 10-27-2018, 07:17 PM   #151
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Well, to close the original thread subject matter, I learned from the owners of KK Manatee hull #15 that disappeared during the recent hurricane “Florence” is now in a landfill. Swanee was found holed on the port side and laying upside down over a piling. The pilothouse was completely sheared off and never located. Insurance paid off 100% and the owners, after 14 years on the water, are giving up the cruising life. Swanee, RIP.
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Old 10-29-2018, 03:16 AM   #152
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Swanee was found holed on the port side and laying upside down over a piling. The pilothouse was completely sheared off and never located.

So what’s the problem?? It sounds like most of the boats I see for sale on Craigslist
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Old 10-29-2018, 12:14 PM   #153
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I've never been accused of being overly sentimental - but that's a tough way to loose a beloved vessel. Glad the owners survived OK.
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