Composting toilets

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What if... For whatever reason: With C-Toilet not properly emptied/cleaned.
When boat or RV is left unattended for months at time and that fan stops working [batt goes dead, or fan seizes up, or electric connection gets too corroded] - Does the closed vehicle become enmeshed-in/permeated-with decaying/compost fecal matter stench??

I can't answer for the dessicating head specifically, but on the other hand wouldn't any system potentially stink if you left the boat unattended for months without first emptying the tanks/head/porta potti/sewage-management-system-of-choice? That sounds like a potential bad scene with any system to me.

Even in my RV, with a simple "drop into the tank" typical RV system -- and with a big 1-1/2" vent pipe -- I'd be expecting at the least a mountain of encrusted poop in the tank (as the liquid evaporated over a period of months). I would always try to empty any system prior to leaving (and if not possible, I'd expect unpleasant possibilities with any system).
 
I can't answer for the dessicating head specifically, but on the other hand wouldn't any system potentially stink if you left the boat unattended for months without first emptying the tanks/head/porta potti/sewage-management-system-of-choice? That sounds like a potential bad scene with any system to me.

Even in my RV, with a simple "drop into the tank" typical RV system -- and with a big 1-1/2" vent pipe -- I'd be expecting at the least a mountain of encrusted poop in the tank (as the liquid evaporated over a period of months). I would always try to empty any system prior to leaving (and if not possible, I'd expect unpleasant possibilities with any system).



We have used a Nature’s head toilet on our boat going on three years now. My old plumbing system was smelly and gross and had tank leakage problems, so instead of going back will all that we went the simple route and have enjoyed it.

We left our boat during COVID at the dock in Floria for 11 months. If leaving the boat for awhile simply dump the solids bin (and of course the urine tank), and you won’t have to worry about the fan quitting on you and causing a possible smell. Dumping the solids on my NH is much easier than doing a regular pump out IMO, and unlike a regular marine system you are assured to get everything out.
 
We have an Airhead toilet on our 1970 GB 36 and think it’s a good solution for boats not built with room for holding tanks. Macerating pumps can also be a gross problem.
 
Yes. Contact discuss with Peggy Hall the head mistress. She wrote the book and very helpful.We went with marine elegance fresh water heads when we refit.
 
IF I were looking for an alternative to holding tank pump-outs, I would choose a Raritan Electrosan Type 1 marine sanitation device. Overboard discharge is allowed in all waterways except those ridiculous no discharge zones. And, I will freely admit that, if I had one, I would discharge even in NDZs, guilt free, as the effluent contains fewer pathogens that any modern sewer plant on its best day. An Electrosan can be had for $1,300 while a Nature's Head cost nearly $1,000. For 300 bucks I would choose the flush and forget rather than having to empty the compost and lug a urine tank ashore to legally dispose of it.

On the East Coast the only NDZs are Lake Champlain, Narragansett Bay, and the tiny Herrington Harbor in Maryland.
 
IF I were looking for an alternative to holding tank pump-outs, I would choose a Raritan Electrosan Type 1 marine sanitation device. Overboard discharge is allowed in all waterways except those ridiculous no discharge zones. And, I will freely admit that, if I had one, I would discharge even in NDZs, guilt free, as the effluent contains fewer pathogens that any modern sewer plant on its best day. An Electrosan can be had for $1,300 while a Nature's Head cost nearly $1,000. For 300 bucks I would choose the flush and forget rather than having to empty the compost and lug a urine tank ashore to legally dispose of it.

On the East Coast the only NDZs are Lake Champlain, Narragansett Bay, and the tiny Herrington Harbor in Maryland.


Oh boy...better rethink those NDZs...there are many more.... and more on the way. I have a type I Electroscan...while I don't flaunt and it does piss me off that so many areas that don't make sense are being/already shut down.


https://epa.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=0fb057d8a6584e6eaa8c9a6d52f0b326


In addition to NDZs, more and more marinas are becoming "clean marinas" and while not illegal to flush...it is against their rules and they can toss you.
 
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I wouldn't rethink a thing. As I said, I would discharge anywhere with no guilt. Besides, the water cops can't even catch the many boaters who freely discharge their holding tanks - I am convinced that there are indeed many - never mind someone who is discharging what is pretty much clear water. So, with an Electrosan, the effluent goes straight out the through-hull, which can can closed and locked - nylon wire tie complies. Get stopped? Run down and fix in place a wire tie after closing the valve. No guilt here at all! In my case, I have the old-style Groco rubber cone type through-hulls which are locked open or closed with a t-handle which complies as a locking device, at least according to the Coasties who once looked at my setup. But, right now, I am in no mood to undertake a major installation project as I am in the middle of recaulking my aft teak deck. Now that, folks, qualifies as a super-major project.
Oh boy...better rethink those NDZs...there are many more.... and more on the way. I have a type I Electroscan...while I don't flaunt and it does piss me off that so many areas that don't make sense are being/already shut down.


https://epa.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=0fb057d8a6584e6eaa8c9a6d52f0b326


In addition to NDZs, more and more marinas are becoming "clean marinas" and while not illegal to flush...it is against their rules and they can toss you.
 
And as for the clean marinas, how in hell would a marina catch you discharging clean water into water that is less clean than the discharge water?
Oh boy...better rethink those NDZs...there are many more.... and more on the way. I have a type I Electroscan...while I don't flaunt and it does piss me off that so many areas that don't make sense are being/already shut down.


https://epa.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=0fb057d8a6584e6eaa8c9a6d52f0b326


In addition to NDZs, more and more marinas are becoming "clean marinas" and while not illegal to flush...it is against their rules and they can toss you.
 
And as for the clean marinas, how in hell would a marina catch you discharging clean water into water that is less clean than the discharge water?


When I said rethink...it was about the puny few NDZs you listed.


Get it?



That should answer your other questions.
 
How do those electro san units work? The NDZ's aren't about pathogen discharge necessarily. Often times congested waterways are under stress from BOD (biological oxygen demand), where discharging something that bugs like to eat (sewage) encourages the growth of said bugs, who then suck the oxygen out of the water, preventing anything else from growing there.

Sewage treatment plants remove this BOD by tanks of these bugs that are aerated to provide the O2 they need. I don't think an on-board head could do such a thing but I could be wrong.
 
You have a friend who’s a surveyor, and instead of believing him you’re asking total strangers on the internet?



I can’t think of a more ignorant response. So the surveyor in your mind is an expert so his opinion is correct, end of story. Have you in your life blindly listened to experts? I did earlier in life but no more. I have learned that “experts” often times are self proclaimed and often times dead wrong. Many of them come with credentials. Those are not infallible either. I am amazed that you condescendingly question the OP for seeking more information from potential users of the product in question. Like he is stupid. I guess you blindly believe experts and all the marketing hype.
 
And as for the clean marinas, how in hell would a marina catch you discharging clean water into water that is less clean than the discharge water?

We could stay in a small bay with little water exchange for a month or more and never flush.

Would you go for a mid morning swim in a small bay if there were 10 boats, each with 4 people aboard, all flushing "clean water" as you do?
 
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How do those electro san units work? The NDZ's aren't about pathogen discharge necessarily. Often times congested waterways are under stress from BOD (biological oxygen demand), where discharging something that bugs like to eat (sewage) encourages the growth of said bugs, who then suck the oxygen out of the water, preventing anything else from growing there.

Sewage treatment plants remove this BOD by tanks of these bugs that are aerated to provide the O2 they need. I don't think an on-board head could do such a thing but I could be wrong.


The Electroscan changes salt to some chlorine derivative that kills bacteria.


You are correct that some NDZs may be/are for BOD. But th vast majority of those on the East Coast are well flushed by oceanic water so probably not the reason.


The same people that whine about current while docking are probably the same about a flush every how often into that same current?



Look, I get the point about not swimming in others poo...then the same people rave about the Bahamas and other destination spots where it is perfectly legal to discharge untreated sewage and the shore dwellers do too.


Type 1 MSDs are a tiny portion of boaters and yet vast waterway systems are closed to their use when shoreside pollution is barely addressed. The users of type 1's are probably at least concerned somewhat about the whole mess to buy, install and maintain them yet more legislation is passed about them and little effort is put into the enforcement of straight dischargers and other sources.
 
IF I were looking for an alternative to holding tank pump-outs, I would choose a Raritan Electrosan Type 1 marine sanitation device. Overboard discharge is allowed in all waterways except those ridiculous no discharge zones. And, I will freely admit that, if I had one, I would discharge even in NDZs, guilt free, as the effluent contains fewer pathogens that any modern sewer plant on its best day. An Electrosan can be had for $1,300 while a Nature's Head cost nearly $1,000. For 300 bucks I would choose the flush and forget rather than having to empty the compost and lug a urine tank ashore to legally dispose of it.

On the East Coast the only NDZs are Lake Champlain, Narragansett Bay, and the tiny Herrington Harbor in Maryland.

I had a LectraSan - I still have it with a brand new motherboard which I will put up for sale at some point. Tearing this apart totally sucks - there are a dozen screws that hold the top housing together and frankly, is worse than a holding tank for service.

1. If you are not in Salt Water, you will need some sort of salt feeding system. The slightly brackish waters of San Francisco Bay - the middle of the Bay - was likely the cause of some of my problems

2. It still has something resembling a macerator which is not only a failure point, but could get bound-up by a user who flushes a wipe or worse

3. Parts are expensive - the motherboard is something close to $700 as I recall. The electrode pack is not exactly reliable either. The price of these two parts is more than a new unit, so it's an expensive system if anything goes wrong, which it did for me twice in the 5-or so years I had it installed.

4. If you think it's legal to pump from LS into a holding tank in an NDZ, then overboard within the 3-mile limit, think again. Once the effluent goes into the holding tank, it loses its legally protected status for overboard discharge.

All I can tell you is that for me, the LectraScan (whatever its called these days) was part of the problem, not the solution. I did not find it to be reliable, and a PITA to service.

Peter
 
Man O ' Man... Have times ever changed... for the better!

During 50's and 60's the harbors around LI and NYC were floating weekend-warrior sewage bins. NYC [I believe it was untreated] effluent surged out of huge [20'] diameter conduits directly into Hells Gate at beginning of Hudson River.

Some weekend-warrior bays [harbors] would have hundreds of boats tied in multi boat rafts or anchored alone. That was basically before holding tanks became used - and - Lectro Scan type systems were still barely a wet dream.. pun intended! For the whole weekend it was direct flush toilets off boats into harbor waters.

I recall pulling anchor line in Flushing Harbor where quite often toilet paper had to be grabbed off the line and thrown overboard before the rode was stored.

In canals where boat docks existed and fuel docks were prevalent there was more often than not water surface fuel sheens floating by. Each fuel dock was surrounded by colorful fuel sheens.

I clearly recall falling into the water on Woodcleft canal in Freeport LI with a shirt with a chest pocket. In the pocket was a turd when I climbed back out.

Man O ' Man... Have times ever changed... for the better!
 
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The Electroscan changes salt to some chlorine derivative that kills bacteria.

Correct - they operate on same principle as salt water pool systems. With an electrical current, two NaCL moelecules (salt) will dissociate into two Na molecules (sodium) and one Cl2 molecule - Chlorine.

But my experience is it didn't work very well. Unlike a pool, the salinity can vary greatly, and there's all manner of other stuff in the effluent beyond just salt and water.

That said, I've heard people use ElectraScans successfully for years, just as I've head of people with heads and holding tanks for years with nary a smell or problem It just has NOT been my experience, so out with it all and in with a compost head.

Peter
 
Electroscans have 2 fan clubs...for and against. I think it depends a lot on how you wind up using them and how you think about them to begin with.


As far as as comparing the waterways of the 60's and 70's to today...you bet it's a big difference...but not really related to Type I or II MSDs as that's "treated" versus untreated effluent.


As to not seeing the discharge leave the boat? Well that might depend on the clarity of the water...but what is it like 10 feet away? Supposedly (and tested/certified to be cleaner than the water it releases to much of the time) if cleaner than the water you are already swimming in and 10 feet away you wouldn't notice a thing (and remember the bacterial count in the water is there whether someone used their Electroscan or not).


Does that justify using one? That's a moral and shouldn't be a legal one...but even I wouldn't use one where people are swimming or the current didn't carry it away in seconds (down current of the swimmers).
 
Have Lectra Scan on one head... used exclusively for #1.

30 gal holding tank on the other head... used exclusively for #2

Lectra Scan came on both heads with the boat. One unit was older and did not work well. In horse-trading of purchasing the boat I got a $3K reduction due to head work required.

Then I had a Raritan specialist make sure the newer Lectra Scan was up to par and also rip out the older model for replacement with holding tank. He was a pro... Used only the best tank and piping materials. Been 12 years... not a wiff, and not a problem!
 
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...Would you go for a mid morning swim in a small bay if there were 10 boats, each with 4 people aboard, all flushing "clean water" as you do?

...or eat clams off the beach.

I think it was Bill Mason (of Canadian canoeing fame) who once said he never wanted to paddle on water he couldn't drink.

Wouldn't it be nice if our species as a whole could work towards that?
 
Is this about treated or untreated discharge?
 
Some random thoughts after reading more posts here.

The fan.
The fan in the two popular brands of composting toilets is the weak point of the system. They will fail as they are on 24 hours. As I sit here typing this, with nothing in my Airhead, the fan is on. My refit guy put my Airhead in and knowing what I know now, here is what I would have added.

1) Some kind of diode light to let me know the fan is running. I cannot hear the fan at all except if I stick my head into the head to listen and even then I "think" I hear it. Why the diode, because the fan will die and I want to find out the easy way and not the hard way its dead.

2) An on/off switch so that when I am sitting here typing and there is nothing in the Airhead and I can leave the fan off. Cheap Scottish guy here, I just want to extend the life of the fan. My refit guy didn't add the fan to my electrical panel to turn it on and off there since it is suppose to be on all the time.

Urine build up:

You can get a crusty layer of "stuff" on any container used to hold urine. When Jesus was in diapers, I was an orderly at Vancouver General Hospital and St. Paul's hospital paying my way through university. I strongly suspect I hold the record for emptying and cleaning urinals, catheter bags and catheterizing patients here at TF. In "the day," urinals had a dedicated steamer built into the wall, lift the lid, pop the urinal in, close the lid, hit the steamer, take out urinal. The problem is that though the steamer sterilized urinal "on the inside" (think about it in these pandemic times), it didn't wash the insides. Over time, hard scale would develop. This is the long way around to say that vinegar will get rid of the smell, it won't get rid of the scale built up.

I will be trying out various products, something along the lines of this:

https://www.amazon.ca/Odor-Bio-Enzymatic-Urine-Digester-Neutralizer/dp/B00R58XARU
 
We have a composting toilet. It works great. Some people have had problems with flies coming down the vent. A screen placed in the vent pipe solves that problem. The real consideration is how much us it will get as the containers are somewhat small but adequate
 
Composting head

We use a composting head and I would not go back to a traditional head with black water tank. We have a C Head, a very small independent business who does custom designs to fit any head. The benefits include being able to use regular gallon jugs or divert the urine to a black tank. They now offer a P-tank instead of gallon jugs. We repurpose our empty milk jugs and reuse multiple times. On hook or traveling, we store full jugs down below until we are on land with a bathroom. The compost that is ready to be emptied can go into a special container from a hardware store with a locking lid until full then dispose of in the trash. Fully composted material can be used for flower gardens or the whole locked bucket can go to a landfill. We have no black tank which has afforded us room for our water maker. No smell which is a huge benefit. We were visiting on a beautiful trawler and I could not get past the smell of the black water tank. Just takes diligence and cooperation from both of us.
 
Dealing with the paper

A solution to the paper and things that should not go down the toilet (composting or other) was to use a diaper genie. Discovered it after grandchild visited and had a Diaper Genie. Friend invited us to their cabin with a composting toilet. (too close to water for a regular outhouse). They complained about the paper smell. Works great, no smell and relatively inexpensive. BTW, most of the world doesn't put paper down the toilet.
 
Hi. After months of research I bought an airhead toilet. I live on a 30’ cabin cruiser & the Head is opposite my main ship bed & my very sensitive nose. It definitely does not smell. However, what the videos & promotional material don’t mention is the weight of the excrement bowl. My head is too small to empty it into a rubbish bag & I find bending over to unscrew it all & lift it to the aft deck quite onerous. Something I’m managing in my 60’s but will find difficult later. I’ve had fruit fly issues, leakage through the screw when it’s gone swampy (worst job ever) & only happened once. I keep a diary & a sign up to remember to empty urine as I got caught out with that numerous times. It’s all under control now. As others have said, guests are reluctant to use it but the grandkids are fabulous about the novelty. Having one on a Rv would be easier as you can empty it on trees but it’s harder on a boat. After 18 months, this is my best length of time (Jan 30) without emptying. I just want you to know the pitfalls. I’m really happy with NO SMELL.
 
A solution to the paper and things that should not go down the toilet (composting or other) was to use a diaper genie. Discovered it after grandchild visited and had a Diaper Genie. Friend invited us to their cabin with a composting toilet. (too close to water for a regular outhouse). They complained about the paper smell. Works great, no smell and relatively inexpensive. BTW, most of the world doesn't put paper down the toilet.

They make a litter genie for cat turds. Probably be much more inline with paper used to wipe than a diaper genie.

https://www.amazon.com/Litter-Genie...1&keywords=Litter+Genie&qid=1618263712&sr=8-6
 
For flies, add roughly one cup of diatomaceous earth to your coconut coir and turn the handle a number of times to move it around. For $23 I bought enough (about the size of a large laundry detergent box) to probably last me 10 years.

What is diatomaceous earth?
Diatomaceous earth is made from the fossilized remains of tiny, aquatic organisms called diatoms. Their skeletons are made of a natural substance called silica. Over a long period of time, diatoms accumulated in the sediment of rivers, streams, lakes, and oceans. Today, silica deposits are mined from these areas.

Silica is very common in nature and makes up 26% of the earth's crust by weight. Various forms of silica include sand, emerald, quartz, feldspar, mica, clay, asbestos, and glass. Silicon, a component of silica, does not exist naturally in its pure form. It usually reacts with oxygen and water to form silicon dioxide. Silicon dioxide has two naturally occurring forms: crystalline and amorphous. Most diatomaceous earth is made of amorphous silicon dioxide. However, it can contain very low levels of crystalline silicon dioxide. The first pesticide products containing silicon dioxide (diatomaceous earth) were registered in 1960 to kill insects and mites.


What are some products that contain diatomaceous earth?
Products containing diatomaceous earth are most commonly dusts. Other formulations include wettable powders and pressurized liquids. Currently, there are over 150 products registered for use inside and outside of buildings, farms, gardens, and pet kennels. Some products can also be used directly on dogs and cats. Diatomaceous earth products are registered for use against bed bugs, cockroaches, crickets, fleas, ticks, spiders, and many other pests.

There are thousands of non-pesticide products that contain diatomaceous earth. These include skin care products, toothpastes, foods, beverages, medicines, rubbers, paints, and water filters. The Food & Drug Administration lists diatomaceous earth as "Generally Recognized as Safe". "Food grade" diatomaceous earth products are purified. They may be used as anticaking materials in feed, or as clarifiers for wine and beer.

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How does diatomaceous earth work?
Diatomaceous earth is not poisonous; it does not have to be eaten in order to be effective. Diatomaceous earth causes insects to dry out and die by absorbing the oils and fats from the cuticle of the insect's exoskeleton. Its sharp edges are abrasive, speeding up the process. It remains effective as long as it is kept dry and undisturbed.
 
Got it. Misinterpreted. Sorry, but it doesn't change my thinking regardless of whether every damn Waterway becomes a NDZ. The ignorance of these do-gooder regulators is appalling.
When I said rethink...it was about the puny few NDZs you listed.


Get it?



That should answer your other questions.
 
Yes, you could be incorrect.
How do those electro san units work? The NDZ's aren't about pathogen discharge necessarily. Often times congested waterways are under stress from BOD (biological oxygen demand), where discharging something that bugs like to eat (sewage) encourages the growth of said bugs, who then suck the oxygen out of the water, preventing anything else from growing there.

Sewage treatment plants remove this BOD by tanks of these bugs that are aerated to provide the O2 they need. I don't think an on-board head could do such a thing but I could be wrong.
 
If you read closely, I did not say I have an Electrosan but, yes, I would swim in the water if it were otherwise clean enough to do so.
We could stay in a small bay with little water exchange for a month or more and never flush.

Would you go for a mid morning swim in a small bay if there were 10 boats, each with 4 people aboard, all flushing "clean water" as you do?
 
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