Coastwise Endorsement for Foreign Made Trawler

[Moondance]

Looking to do charters with a trawler that is foreign made.

Anyone have any experience getting the coastwise endorsement on a foreign built vessel?

Thanks

 

[jungpeter]

Hi Moondance,

I attempted the same thing, some 20 years ago. So, obviously, times and circumstances have changed, and your mileage may vary.

I requested a Jones Act exemption (a Coastwise endorsement) for a Canadian-built vessel for operations in CA, OR and WA, and AK. I was granted the exemption for all but AK. The Alaskans said hell no, there's too much competition in AK already from boats built in the US.

Given there was negligible business to be had in anything but AK for crewed charters, my business plan cratered and I scrapped the idea.

As I said, YMMV and is very likely regional.

Regards,

Pete

 

[Larry M]

When we sold our 1981 34’ Mainship, the buyer was an Alaska charter boat captain (6 pack) and specifically targeted US made vessels for that reason.

 

[Taras]

The Jones Act all but eliminates ALL foreign built vessels for charter for more than 6 paying passengers. You can charter coastwise for 6 or less "paying" passengers with your vessel and NOT have to do a coast guard inspection. If you want to get more than 6 paying passengers on your vessel, you will literally need an act of congress to get a Jones Act exemption. Once you get that, then you would need to go thru the exhaustive process of getting your vessel inspected by the Coast Guard. Once you fix all the "issues", then they would provide you with a COI "Certificate of Inspection" which would specify how many passengers your vessel may safety carry along with how many crew they believe would be required to safely navigate and operate your vessel.....
There's probably other steps involved as well..... The simple thing is just to stick to 6 PAX.

 

[Comodave]

Bringing a boat into compliance with the CG regs is almost impossible if the boat wasn’t constructed as a commercial vessel.

 

[mvweebles]

I'm curious why the OP asks? What's the dream?

When I drove for a charter dinner cruise company on SF Bay, one of the boats was a 65-foot Pacemaker motoryacht, circa 1970. That was almost 25-years ago - I believe it was certified to 45 passengers (the other boat was an 85-foot ex-dive vessel COI 74 POB). It had been converted at some point, mostly higher lifelines. I'd guess the conversion cost was blended into the overall costs to make it suitable for over 3-dozen passengers expecting a decent meal and plenty to drink.

While possible, I cannot imagine it being worthwhile to convert a boat these days. They are out there for a reasonable price - here's a Hatt 56 for $270k COI 34 POB.

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1981-hatteras-56-motor-yacht-uscg-certified-7222204/

Peter

 

[Moondance]

Not necessarily looking to convert to multi-passenger. I do fishing charters already on a six pack boat. Just want the option to do some charters on the trawler.

 

[twistedtree]

So can a six pack boat be foreign built?

I think the complication may be because the OP is asking about a Documented boat. A six pack boat doesn’t need to be documented. But once documented, and if foreign built, pax use will be prohibited. Are you saying that such a boat can still be used as a six pack? I thought it couldn’t, but really am not sure.

 

[garbler]

I know of one charter vessel that did in fact secure an exception but I honestly don’t know the details. I sailed the Martimes and the Labrador on her with a dozen l paying passengers. She was the vessel ‘ Wanderbird ‘ a 94’ Dutch built North Sea trawler converted to passenger service. She took on passengers in both Maine and St John and St. Anthony, Newfoundland. I had done survey work on the vessel and knew the owner well. He had a good Admiralty lawyer who arranged this one time only exception through MARAD. So it’s been done but how I can’t say. Having a politician in your pocket would help

Rick

 

[jungpeter]

The Jones Act all but eliminates ALL foreign built vessels for charter for more than 6 paying passengers. You can charter coastwise for 6 or less "paying" passengers with your vessel and NOT have to do a coast guard inspection. If you want to get more than 6 paying passengers on your vessel, you will literally need an act of congress to get a Jones Act exemption. Once you get that, then you would need to go thru the exhaustive process of getting your vessel inspected by the Coast Guard. Once you fix all the "issues", then they would provide you with a COI "Certificate of Inspection" which would specify how many passengers your vessel may safety carry along with how many crew they believe would be required to safely navigate and operate your vessel.....
There's probably other steps involved as well..... The simple thing is just to stick to 6 PAX.

Hi Taras,

Well, not quite so "..simple to just stick to 6 PAX." I believe that, unless the boat is under 40' LOA, it must be not only US built (or with a Jones Act exemption), but documented and endorsed for commercial trade. BUT, unless the vessel is >100 gross tons, not necessarily inspected. This applies, irregardless of number of passengers. And no, not an "act of Congress" to achieve an exemption. USCG issues those, but only after soliciting comment from the various states impacted by the requested exemption. Yeah, you might need an "act of Congress" to overturn an adverse USCG determination, so you're correct as far as that unicorn goes.

Obviously, this is (as most bureaucratic issues go), a complicated subject, involving crew and master credentialing, vessel requirements, insurance, out-of-CONUS (i.e. foreign) operations, ownership liability, etc. etc.

To the original poster-this is a tough row to hoe. While some boat owners may well have accomplished moving a foreign-built boat into successful crewed charter service, I personally was not successful. And I tried hard to do so, as it was going to be my retirement "job". After LOTS of letters, phone calls, lawyer visits, USCG applications, vessel improvements to conform to uninspected commercial eligibility (life jackets, flares, numbers, documents, proper color of heaving line on throwable device, lights, nav rules, ship radio telephone license, yada yada yada) I retreated into simply enjoying my boat with non-paying friends aboard, and spent the next 20 years in peace.

A maritime lawyer is your friend here. Find a good one, pay them well, and listen to their advice. What you're getting on this forum is shotgun patterning of miscellaneous misinformation. Some hits the mark, most misses the boat. And sorry for the pun!

Regards,

Pete

 

[garbler]

Hi Taras,

Well, not quite so "..simple to just stick to 6 PAX." I believe that, unless the boat is under 40' LOA, it must be not only US built (or with a Jones Act exemption), but documented and endorsed for commercial trade. BUT, unless the vessel is >100 gross tons, not necessarily inspected. This applies, irregardless of number of passengers. And no, not an "act of Congress" to achieve an exemption. USCG issues those, but only after soliciting comment from the various states impacted by the requested exemption. Yeah, you might need an "act of Congress" to overturn an adverse USCG determination, so you're correct as far as that unicorn goes.

Obviously, this is (as most bureaucratic issues go), a complicated subject, involving crew and master credentialing, vessel requirements, insurance, out-of-CONUS (i.e. foreign) operations, ownership liability, etc. etc.

To the original poster-this is a tough row to hoe. While some boat owners may well have accomplished moving a foreign-built boat into successful crewed charter service, I personally was not successful. And I tried hard to do so, as it was going to be my retirement "job". After LOTS of letters, phone calls, lawyer visits, USCG applications, vessel improvements to conform to uninspected commercial eligibility (life jackets, flares, numbers, documents, proper color of heaving line on throwable device, lights, nav rules, ship radio telephone license, yada yada yada) I retreated into simply enjoying my boat with non-paying friends aboard, and spent the next 20 years in peace.

A maritime lawyer is your friend here. Find a good one, pay them well, and listen to their advice. What you're getting on this forum is shotgun patterning of miscellaneous misinformation. Some hits the mark, most misses the boat. And sorry for the pun!

Regards,

Pete

Some good info Pete but I think you’ll find that the USCG has no say in this. As I recall these small passenger vessel foreign bottom exceptions are executed only by MARAD. I’m sure if you want to weed through the federal websites you can find something about this

Rick

 

[garbler]

Some good info Pete but I think you’ll find that the USCG has no say in this. As I recall these small passenger vessel foreign bottom exceptions are executed only by MARAD. I’m sure if you want to weed through the federal websites you can find something about this

Rick

I forgot to mention but I assume the OP understands that carry passengers as explained will require COI from the USCG which means the vessel will have to comply with all applicable construction, systems and operation standards plus licensing. This means things like watertight bulkheads, proper hull subdivision, fire fighting, etc etc etc.

 

[fgarriso]

So can a six pack boat be foreign built?

I think the complication may be because the OP is asking about a Documented boat. A six pack boat doesn’t need to be documented. But once documented, and if foreign built, pax use will be prohibited. Are you saying that such a boat can still be used as a six pack? I thought it couldn’t, but really am not sure.

That is one of the reasons I bought a U.S. built boat this time. 58 Hatteras LRC, not that I plan to charter it, but it could be a good selling point.

 

[Taras]

A COI (Cert of Inspection) is only necessary for a Charter carrying more than 6 paying passengers. If you carry 6 paying passengers or less, you do not need to get a COI. Only regulations is that you carry the appropriate USCG safety equipment for your size vessel and the number of total passengers on boat.
Lastly, Inspected Vessels to be used for Charter Purposes that carry more than 6 paying passengers need to be U.S Built.
Take a look at the link below. This spells it out pretty well.
https://wow.uscgaux.info/Uploads_wowII/P-DEPT/PaxForHire_GuideChart.pdf

 

[garbler]

I mentioned in a earlier post that MARAD has the ability to make Jones Act exceptions for smaller passenger vessels operating in U.S. waters on foreign built bottoms. I also kind of facetiously mentioned having a politician in your pocket would help . Here is a link to such congressional activity. Senior senator, no debate, no anything and probably got stamped APPROVED at like 5:am one morning. Vessel was the famous schooner Wander Bird ex German built pilot boat owned and sailed by the infamous Harold Somers out of of San Francisco. Harold was running light freight up and down CA coast to Mexico

https://www.congress.gov/bill/99th-congress/senate-bill/2503?s=1&r=61

Rick

 

[garbler]

I mentioned in a earlier post that MARAD has the ability to make Jones Act exceptions for smaller passenger vessels operating in U.S. waters on foreign built bottoms. I also kind of facetiously mentioned having a politician in your pocket would help . Here is a link to such congressional activity. Senior senator, no debate, no anything and probably got stamped APPROVED at like 5:am one morning. Vessel was the famous schooner Wander Bird ex German built pilot boat owned and sailed by the infamous Harold Somers out of of San Francisco. Harold was running light freight up and down CA coast to Mexico

https://www.congress.gov/bill/99th-congress/senate-bill/2503?s=1&r=61

Rick

I used a very poorly phrased comment “ politician in your pocket “ that I regret saying. It should be a politician in your corner. There was nothing sleazy about what the former Senator Cranston did he was only clearing the congressional brush for one of his constituents and so doing did no harm.

My apology
Rick

 

[jungpeter]

Some good info Pete but I think you’ll find that the USCG has no say in this. As I recall these small passenger vessel foreign bottom exceptions are executed only by MARAD. I’m sure if you want to weed through the federal websites you can find something about this

Rick

Hi Rick,

Right on. It's MARAD, vice USCG that administers this Jones Act stuff. It's been over 20 years since I tried to put a foreign-built vessel into crewed charter service, and my brain ain't what it once was. If it ever was...

Regards,

Pete

 

[Comodave]

Hi Rick,

Right on. It's MARAD, vice USCG that administers this Jones Act stuff. It's been over 20 years since I tried to put a foreign-built vessel into crewed charter service, and my brain ain't what it once was. If it ever was...

Regards,

Pete

Are any of ours what they used to be???

 

[Jaep]

Marad waiver

I obtained a marad waiver for a south african vessel. A six pack would be within the passenger guidelines. A PIA but due diligence with the paperwork will get you a waiver. If you are not in a hurry.

 

[Chris Leigh-Jones]

Looking to do charters with a trawler that is foreign made.

Anyone have any experience getting the coastwise endorsement on a foreign built vessel?

Thanks

I believe the Jones Act will get you on this one. You will need to obtain a MARAD Waiver for foreign built vessel to be operated in US coastal trade. These are area specific and require the hull to be over 3 years old. Provided all other equipment is up to Coast Guard standards and the engines are compliant with EPA requirements (Tier III) you should be good. The waiver application is advertised publicly and dependent on US Citizen raising a valid complaint. In some ports that may be an issue, in others "nah". You will also need. valid Coast Guard captains lisence at the appropriate level and be subject to their annual inspections.

Good luck, you might just make it work.

 

[captjohn7]

I charter my Taiwanese built Grand Banks trawler. It is documented with the CG. I got a Jones act exemption by petitioning congress. Cost was $500 then. My exemption is all east coast USA . A notice was posted for any objections and when none were recieved I was issued a coastwise endorsement ( marad waiver ) on my document . I only carry 6 or less passengers and am not an inspected vessel. Look up Tubbycharters dot com to see my business.

 

[ronobrien]

Looking to do charters with a trawler that is foreign made.

Anyone have any experience getting the coastwise endorsement on a foreign built vessel?

Thanks

Going back some years I worked as a ships agent and the way I understood "coastwise" was to mean discharging passengers in a different US port than the passengers were picked up in, within the US. I think that if you pick up and discharge passengers in the same US port it is not considered 'coastwise". Again it has been years and my memory isn't it once was. Also there are many fishing charters in my home port which begin and end in the same port. While I don't know for fact I can't help but think that they are not all built in USA.

 

[garbler]

Going back some years I worked as a ships agent and the way I understood "coastwise" was to mean discharging passengers in a different US port than the passengers were picked up in, within the US. I think that if you pick up and discharge passengers in the same US port it is not considered 'coastwise". Again it has been years and my memory isn't it once was. Also there are many fishing charters in my home port which begin and end in the same port. While I don't know for fact I can't help but think that they are not all built in USA.

As a former shipping agent you’d certainly be a guy who knows both foreign and U.S. regulations and how to decipher some very complicated forms and paperwork. So your point about “ coastwise “ I find very interesting though it’s out of realm of experience.

Rick