Child dies of CO poisoning while on back of small boat

[sdowney717]

From what I understand CO accumulates in the body, and takes several hours for the body to recover. Makes me think their in-flight exposure pushed them close and then the added CO from the furnace finished them off.

A random web search led to this link:
https://www.abe.iastate.edu/extension-and-outreach/carbon-monoxide-poisoning-health-effects-aen-166/

What're the current offerings on the market, known to be reliable for portable use? I had one some years ago, on our old gasoline-powered boat, but I've long since misplaced it (and seem to recall the sensor having a limited shelf-life anyway).

I bought that one after a late-night wake-up from the CO alarm. Turned out to be a low battery situation, not CO. It was NOT fun being half-in-the-bag from pitchers of Margaritas trying to read the tiny type on the tiny bit of folded-up documentation that came with the detector, to figure out how to shut the damned thing off...

It's likewise troubling to know that a typical home pulse-oximeter will NOT help you detect CO problems. As they don't differentiate properly between normal and COhb saturation. Doesn't look like there's any over-the-counter kinds of sensors for this.

Perhaps an entire blood transfusion. It takes a while for the hemoglobin to free itself of the CO molecule.

 

[wkearney99]

There's not a lot out there that tests COhb. There are some medical devices, and some aimed toward emergency personnel. But at ~$800 that's pretty steep.

There's one company making a CO breath detector, aimed toward smoking cessation. At $300 it'd still be pretty expensive for recreational boaters.

https://account.pivot.co/purchase

 

[psneeld]

Again...addressing mitigation factors is so much easier than relying on sensors.

 

[firehoser75]

My very strong suggestion is to have/do both. Good maintenance and mitigation measures, coupled with good sensors (that are also tested and maintained).

After all, sh_t happens, the best laid plans, etc.

 

[BandB]

Wifey B: I guess when on the lake with gas engines I had the perfect solution. I went fast and forward. Now, I also believe in detectors, not as absolute protection but just to tip you off with a problem.

 

[Alaskaflyer]

Another anecdote comes to mind, from the same place and time. Lake Powell has a large rental houseboat market. Daily service calls to the marina about beeping CO alarms that “wouldn’t stop”. The young service techs would boat out, replace the unit without investigation and carry on. Beginning around 2001 the service techs were required to carry a meter, and test spaces before servicing the alarm. Boom, easy to guess what they found.

Something to consider when you are annoyed about your CO detector beeping and are casting about for a solution to make it stop (as are so often described in RV forums for example.) Maybe consider that you have unhealthy CO in your space!

 

[psneeld]

What did they find?

My memory recalls people were diving under the boats and coming up for a breath where the genset exhausted.


https://www.deseret.com/2007/4/22/20014425/co-poisoning-linked-to-lake-powell-deaths


Their real killer was carbon monoxide (CO) from the exhaust of engines and houseboat generators, sometimes found in concentrations so high behind boats that lethal amounts could be inhaled literally in seconds, making victims fall unconscious and drown or die from CO poisoning itself.

 

[Alaskaflyer]

What did they find?

My memory recalls people were diving under the boats and coming up for a breath where the genset exhausted.


https://www.deseret.com/2007/4/22/20014425/co-poisoning-linked-to-lake-powell-deaths


Their real killer was carbon monoxide (CO) from the exhaust of engines and houseboat generators, sometimes found in concentrations so high behind boats that lethal amounts could be inhaled literally in seconds, making victims fall unconscious and drown or die from CO poisoning itself.

Was this for me?

Most cases were as you describe. We also had open windows or sliding doors on houseboats that allowed fumes exhausting from a generator or an idling boat tied up alongside to enter sleeping/living spaces. And finally, fairly common was the situation described in the original post, especially those tied up close to the stern of the ski boat doing tricks on boogie boards.

 

[psneeld]

And the vast majority of those cases are what most boaters do that knowing there is a CO danger?


I hope not.....

 

[Alaskaflyer]

And the vast majority of those cases are what most boaters do that knowing there is a CO danger?


I hope not.....

Most were absolutely clueless about CO. This was twenty years ago though, at least there are more warning decals now if nothing else.

 

[wkearney99]

Most were absolutely clueless about CO. This was twenty years ago though, at least there are more warning decals now if nothing else.

I'd venture a great many are still clueless about it. A point in the linked article was there's nothing required to be done about older boats. No mitigating efforts, even when the vendor knew about the problem and took steps in later production to reduce it. Now, there's certainly got to be some sort of time limit for indemnifying the vendors. It would seem ridiculous to force an expense on them decades after the fact. Especially when the boats, when sold, were no different than anything else on the market.

This raises the spectre of emissions testing. I'm not in favor of it, if only because of the boondoggle of expenses that would come from it. But it does raise an important, and potentially life-saving question... what can/should be done to help reduce the potential for additional deaths like the one linked.

Sometimes it's as simple as just sharing a discussion about it.

 

[psneeld]

Minnesota law.....

Motorboats, regardless of fuel type, with an *enclosed accommodation compartment must be equipped with a functioning marine CO detector system installed according to the manufacturer’s instructions.

Per the American Boat and Yacht Council (ABYC) standard A-24 (link is external) Carbon Monoxide Detection Systems, July 2015, detectors must be located to monitor the atmosphere in the main cabin and each sleeping area. Carbon monoxide detectors manufactured prior to 2012 should be replaced.

All gasoline-powered motorboats with any *enclosed occupancy compartment must display three CO poisoning warning stickers as directed by law.

These updates must be complete by May 1, 2018 for lawful operation.

Three carbon monoxide warning stickers and an informational brochure have been mailed to MN registered boats 19 feet and greater.

Minnesota is the first state to require CO detectors in motorboats. Together we can lead our nation in reducing CO poisoning accidents while boating.

https://www.dnr.state.mn.us/safety/boatwater/sophias-law.html

 

[wkearney99]

Per the American Boat and Yacht Council (ABYC) standard A-24 (link is external) Carbon Monoxide Detection Systems, July 2015, detectors must be located to monitor the atmosphere in the main cabin and each sleeping area.

Which is a great plan. But the boat in the linked article had no enclosed accommodation area. Many/most small ski boats don't.

That and the accident happened in Texas. A google search brings up a litany of deaths related to boating and CO in Texas.

https://www.google.com/search?q=texas+boat+carbon+monoxide

The TPWD makes no mention of carbon monoxide in their list of required safety equipment for boats in that bracket.

https://tpwd.texas.gov/regulations/...-equipment/required-safety-equipment-power-26

My point isn't to single out Texas, or any other state, on this issue. Rather to raise the discussion in hopes that concern about the danger is shared with others.

 

[psneeld]

Maybe there is a reason why detectors are not required on open boats per ABYC.

 

[Alaskaflyer]

From what I understand CO accumulates in the body, and takes several hours for the body to recover. Makes me think their in-flight exposure pushed them close and then the added CO from the furnace finished them off.

A random web search led to this link:
https://www.abe.iastate.edu/extension-and-outreach/carbon-monoxide-poisoning-health-effects-aen-166/

What're the current offerings on the market, known to be reliable for portable use? I had one some years ago, on our old gasoline-powered boat, but I've long since misplaced it (and seem to recall the sensor having a limited shelf-life anyway).

I bought that one after a late-night wake-up from the CO alarm. Turned out to be a low battery situation, not CO. It was NOT fun being half-in-the-bag from pitchers of Margaritas trying to read the tiny type on the tiny bit of folded-up documentation that came with the detector, to figure out how to shut the damned thing off...

It's likewise troubling to know that a typical home pulse-oximeter will NOT help you detect CO problems. As they don't differentiate properly between normal and COhb saturation. Doesn't look like there's any over-the-counter kinds of sensors for this.

CO binds to your body’s hemoglobin more than 200 times tighter than oxygen, which is why it takes a relatively little amount to “poison” you, and why it takes so long to remove it from your system. On room air the half life of carbon monoxide complex in your red blood cells for a healthy person is 4-6 hours. We sent a lot more CO victims to the hyperbaric chamber than for diving injuries.