Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-25-2020, 09:37 AM   #1
Veteran Member
 
City: Houston / Ketchikan
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Backchuck
Vessel Model: 28' Crozier / Hunt
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 49
N6833 Delivery

https://nordhavn.com/nordhavn-6833/

Good to see someone taking delivery in these uncertain times.
__________________
Advertisement

Jon H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2020, 10:36 AM   #2
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 8,434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon H View Post
https://nordhavn.com/nordhavn-6833/

Good to see someone taking delivery in these uncertain times.
Looks like TT took delivery. He'll be busy and having lots of fun with this new vessel. Congrats
__________________

sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2020, 11:57 AM   #3
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
Looks like TT took delivery. He'll be busy and having lots of fun with this new vessel. Congrats

No, not me. I'm still waiting. But it's a good friend of mine, and I've been on the boat many times. He's the guy who inspired me to go with a Scania main engine.
__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2020, 12:08 PM   #4
Guru
 
mvweebles's Avatar
 
City: Saint Petersburg
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Weebles
Vessel Model: 1970 Willard 36 Trawler
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 668
Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree View Post
No, not me. I'm still waiting. But it's a good friend of mine, and I've been on the boat many times. He's the guy who inspired me to go with a Scania main engine.
Interesting. Care to share your thoughts on Scania? Honestly, I know nothing about them except OTR. Didn't know there was a Marinized version. Inquiring minds would like to know....

Peter
__________________
M/V Weebles
1970 Willard 36 Sedan Trawler
Current Location: Ensenada MX
mvweebles is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2020, 12:55 PM   #5
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 8,434
Scanias are wonderful marine engines. Very popular in Europe. My brother had a pair in a previous vessel, 14 liters as best I recall. Made in Sweden with the parent corp owning MAN.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2020, 03:51 PM   #6
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvweebles View Post
Interesting. Care to share your thoughts on Scania? Honestly, I know nothing about them except OTR. Didn't know there was a Marinized version. Inquiring minds would like to know....

Peter

Here's a blog article on the engines considered, and factors that led to the Scania.


Adventures of Tanglewood: Mirror, Mirror, on the Wall, What's the Fairest Engine of All


It's not a choice without risk. I have a lot of confidence in the product, but support in North America is thin. I typically do all my own work, but if I have warranty issues I'll need to track someone down. It's not like a Cat, Cummins, or Deere where you can throw a stick and hit a trained tech.
__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2020, 07:30 PM   #7
Guru
 
mvweebles's Avatar
 
City: Saint Petersburg
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Weebles
Vessel Model: 1970 Willard 36 Trawler
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 668
Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree View Post
Here's a blog article on the engines considered, and factors that led to the Scania.


Adventures of Tanglewood: Mirror, Mirror, on the Wall, What's the Fairest Engine of All


It's not a choice without risk. I have a lot of confidence in the product, but support in North America is thin. I typically do all my own work, but if I have warranty issues I'll need to track someone down. It's not like a Cat, Cummins, or Deere where you can throw a stick and hit a trained tech.
As usual, great blog post. I learned a lot - Thanks.

For what it's worth, the factory Cummins techs I've seen recently are skilled at replacing parts into the find the right one to solve whatever the problem is. It's an expensive troubleshooting approach so not sure local factory support is necessarily helpful

Peter
__________________
M/V Weebles
1970 Willard 36 Sedan Trawler
Current Location: Ensenada MX
mvweebles is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2020, 05:46 AM   #8
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvweebles View Post
As usual, great blog post. I learned a lot - Thanks.

For what it's worth, the factory Cummins techs I've seen recently are skilled at replacing parts into the find the right one to solve whatever the problem is. It's an expensive troubleshooting approach so not sure local factory support is necessarily helpful

Peter


And thatís why I do pretty much all of my own work. Itís rare that anyone diagnoses a problem. In stead they just guess and replace parts until the problem goes away - or doesnít.....
__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2020, 09:38 AM   #9
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree View Post
Here's a blog article on the engines considered, and factors that led to the Scania.


Adventures of Tanglewood: Mirror, Mirror, on the Wall, What's the Fairest Engine of All


It's not a choice without risk. I have a lot of confidence in the product, but support in North America is thin. I typically do all my own work, but if I have warranty issues I'll need to track someone down. It's not like a Cat, Cummins, or Deere where you can throw a stick and hit a trained tech.
Your blog article on engine selection was an interesting read. I'm curious if the heat rejection into the engine room numbers were absolutes or a graph. My JD 4045 cruises at 2 GPH around 1,500 RPM. It doesn't get hot enough to cook the paint off anywhere on the engine. As a mental exercise I curious what the curve of the heat into the engine room looks like. If it was a graph for the JD, I'd really like to see it.

Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2020, 02:34 PM   #10
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by O C Diver View Post
Your blog article on engine selection was an interesting read. I'm curious if the heat rejection into the engine room numbers were absolutes or a graph. My JD 4045 cruises at 2 GPH around 1,500 RPM. It doesn't get hot enough to cook the paint off anywhere on the engine. As a mental exercise I curious what the curve of the heat into the engine room looks like. If it was a graph for the JD, I'd really like to see it.

Ted

Most of the data sheets that I've seen, Deere included, just give one max number for full power operation. Scania gives several data points, so a crude graph. Here are the numbers at RPM points, and kw of heat rejection to ambient.


1200 rpm - 11kw
1500 rpm - 13kw
1700 rpm - 14kw
1800 rpm - 14kw


This is for the marine engine, so I think that's with a prop load at those RPMs, but it's not clearly stated.


My thinking has been that since most of the block that's radiating heat stays at a pretty constant temp regardless of load, that heat rejection wouldn't vary hugely with load. Some engine parts do heat up more under load, so I would expect some change, but not linear with load. I think these numbers confirm that, but it's hard to tell for sure.
__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2020, 05:03 PM   #11
Guru
 
mvweebles's Avatar
 
City: Saint Petersburg
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Weebles
Vessel Model: 1970 Willard 36 Trawler
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 668
I have to say, posts like this and MV Dirona never cease to amaze me. You Nordhavn guys worry about stuff I've never even thought of. I guess ignorance is bliss.

Someday if I hit the lottery, I'm buying a boat from one of you guys. I don't care what brand. I want the boat one of you guys owned and agonized over.

Thanks for sharing. I really do enjoy this level of detail

Peter
__________________
M/V Weebles
1970 Willard 36 Sedan Trawler
Current Location: Ensenada MX
mvweebles is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2020, 06:15 PM   #12
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree View Post
Most of the data sheets that I've seen, Deere included, just give one max number for full power operation. Scania gives several data points, so a crude graph. Here are the numbers at RPM points, and kw of heat rejection to ambient.


1200 rpm - 11kw
1500 rpm - 13kw
1700 rpm - 14kw
1800 rpm - 14kw


This is for the marine engine, so I think that's with a prop load at those RPMs, but it's not clearly stated.


My thinking has been that since most of the block that's radiating heat stays at a pretty constant temp regardless of load, that heat rejection wouldn't vary hugely with load. Some engine parts do heat up more under load, so I would expect some change, but not linear with load. I think these numbers confirm that, but it's hard to tell for sure.
Those numbers don't surprise me that much for the Scania engine as the peak output rejection numbers are so low. I would guess there's a much bigger spread for the JD engine as their peak rejection numbers are so high. You can't have high rejection numbers and no cooling system rejection with wet cylinder liners at low fuel burn.

Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2020, 07:35 PM   #13
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by O C Diver View Post
Those numbers don't surprise me that much for the Scania engine as the peak output rejection numbers are so low. I would guess there's a much bigger spread for the JD engine as their peak rejection numbers are so high. You can't have high rejection numbers and no cooling system rejection with wet cylinder liners at low fuel burn.

Ted

They also all provide numbers for heat rejected to the cooling system, both for the engine, and for the after cooler. Most also provide rejection out the exhaust, and if not, it can be calculated based on flow and temperature. All of it has to sum up. Fuel energy in, crankshaft power and heat out.



Anyone designing an engine into an application needs this info to size radiators, keep coolers, heat exchangers, etc. Plus room ventilation for generator shacks, enclosures, and ...... boat engine rooms. All the engine manufacturers require an application review in order to activate the warranty where it's verified that all the specs are met for the engine installation.
__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2020, 08:35 PM   #14
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree View Post
They also all provide numbers for heat rejected to the cooling system, both for the engine, and for the after cooler. Most also provide rejection out the exhaust, and if not, it can be calculated based on flow and temperature. All of it has to sum up. Fuel energy in, crankshaft power and heat out.



Anyone designing an engine into an application needs this info to size radiators, keep coolers, heat exchangers, etc. Plus room ventilation for generator shacks, enclosures, and ...... boat engine rooms. All the engine manufacturers require an application review in order to activate the warranty where it's verified that all the specs are met for the engine installation.
Yes, I understand, information for boat builders. Was hoping for some useful information for boat owners who don't play to run their boat at WOT.

Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2020, 05:30 AM   #15
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by O C Diver View Post
Yes, I understand, information for boat builders. Was hoping for some useful information for boat owners who don't play to run their boat at WOT.

Ted

What are you after? Numbers for engine room cooling, or something else?
__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2020, 08:34 AM   #16
Guru
 
Pete Meisinger's Avatar
 
City: Oconto, WI
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Best Alternative
Vessel Model: 36 Albin Aft Cabin
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 765
Me? I check the oil, start the engine, look for cooling water out the back and start my adventure, watch the gauges throughout the day.

Next day, repeat

I have no understanding of, nor do I care to learn about rejected heat, KW per rpm, a service manual printed in a foreign language or sourcing parts from Europe.

I'm just a small town boy enjoying my boat.

pete
Pete Meisinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2020, 08:42 AM   #17
Guru
 
City: Satsuma FL/Daytona Beach Shores
Country: United States
Vessel Name: No Mo Trawla
Vessel Model: Hurricane SS188
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Meisinger View Post
Me? I check the oil, start the engine, look for cooling water out the back and start my adventure, watch the gauges throughout the day.

Next day, repeat

I have no understanding of, nor do I care to learn about rejected heat, KW per rpm, a service manual printed in a foreign language or sourcing parts from Europe.

For coastal cruisers, it really isn't an issue. You will rarely run your engine more than 8 hours per day if that. But if you are crossing oceans, it can be an issue specially in the tropics.
__________________
Buffalo Bluff Light 28
Donsan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2020, 09:06 AM   #18
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree View Post
What are you after? Numbers for engine room cooling, or something else?
Planning on adding / modifying the ventilation next time I'm in the boatyard. It's good now, but might do a trip to the Bahamas in the future and it certainly wouldn't hurt to have more. Would be nice to have an idea of what I'm trying to overcome.

Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2020, 09:10 AM   #19
Guru
 
Codger2's Avatar
 
City: San Diego
Country: US
Vessel Name: "Sandpiper"
Vessel Model: 2006 42' Ocean Alexander Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 6,092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Meisinger View Post
Me? I check the oil, start the engine, look for cooling water out the back and start my adventure, watch the gauges throughout the day.

I'm just a small town boy enjoying my boat.
Ditto! I do the same with my car! (Correction: My car tells me what's going on, once a month, by e-mail.)
__________________
Codger 1941.. Constant pursuit of the ultimate SoCal Cruising boat.
Codger2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2020, 09:11 AM   #20
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Meisinger View Post
Me? I check the oil, start the engine, look for cooling water out the back and start my adventure, watch the gauges throughout the day.

Next day, repeat

I have no understanding of, nor do I care to learn about rejected heat, KW per rpm, a service manual printed in a foreign language or sourcing parts from Europe.

I'm just a small town boy enjoying my boat.

pete
Where you boat, engine room heat really isn't going to be a factor. We all focus on things that are important to us. You probably have given more thought to winterizing your boat, I just keep using mine.

Ted
__________________

__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×