Manatee needs a new engine, what to do?

[adornato]

Former KK42 owner, me, downsized a few years ago to a Mainship 30....NOW the admiral wants a bigger boat we can sleep on again....

Found a 85 Manatee in a perfect location locally but...
last winter she was nosed into a slip with high stern waves flooding the muffler and the owner "toasted" the engine (hydrolocked, I guess) with probable broken rod piston or worse.

Long story short, needs a new engine. Locals say that rebuilding a TAMD 30 is a fools choice. Should i try to find a used TAMD 30 or put in something else like a Yanmar or Cummins?

I expect it will eventually cost 30-40K for a new engine. Ideas?

 

[DavidM]

Check out Beta engines at https://betamarineusa.com/portfolio/beta-115t/. They have replacement engines from 10-115 hp. One should work in your Manatee. Cheaper than a Yanmar or Cummins and the big ones are built on Kubota blocks. They are sold bobtail or with several gearbox options and an optional high output Balmar alternator.

David

 

[rgano]

A MS 30? Pilot I presume? I am part of a MS 30 Pilot group, and demand for them seems high. Maybe we could find a buyer if you don't have one. My admiral would go back to the GB42 in a heartbeat, but I know better. Not having anything to do with something that won't fit my boat lift.

 

[Larry M]

Bruce: I agree with what the locals are saying. I can’t recommend a replacement but I wouldn’t rebuild or replace with the same.

 

[Comodave]

Personally I would go with a Cummins. If you can get a factory rebuilt one you get the new warranty and a lesser cost. I don’t know if they still offer the rebuilt engines or not.

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

In that size engine, I would go with the Beta....Bigger engine , a Cummins....Definitely not rebuild or replace Volvo...

 

[High Wire]

Normally I would vote for staying with the same engine brand and model for ease of installation. Less things to change, the better. BUT for an old Volvo replacement, I would go new without needing to upsize the running gear. A good choice would be Beta. you may qualify for a Tier 2 engine replacement which has a 90 hp non-turbo 4 cyl mechanical engine or turbo version 90-115hp.

 

[Irish Rambler]

If I had to change engines I would definitely avoid Volvo for crazy cost of spare parts.
Cummins I know are good engines as long as its built in the states not imported from Cummins China but they're still a bit noisy and hard.
My absolute first choice without any question would be the Mitsubishi S6DT, its one of the quietest, smoothest diesels, in fact you'd nearly mistake it for a gas engine, with its low revving 6 cylinders in overlapping firing order you have excellent torque. I know from hard won experience when you're cruising for long hours there's nothing worse than a noisy engine and sympathetic resonance vibrations, you begin to get tired and grumpy.
Cost ? In Holland they are around 12/13 K Euro's. You can check them out on Drinkward Marine, Sliedrecht, Holland. Shippings not a problem and they're highly experienced professionals and hot on service.

 

[tiltrider1]

Changing engines has always been expensive. Nothing ever goes smoothly. Since you don’t own the boat I would recommend not buying an expensive project.

If you are capable of doing all your own work like Comodave or myself then go for it.

 

[Comodave]

Comodave is slowing down. I actually hired some engine work done this winter…

 

[twistedtree]

I would double your cost estimate of $30-$40k. You could easily get that deep into it just in parts. Engine, new transmission, new prop, shift and other control linkages, structural modifications to adjust engine bed location and alignment, custom welded engine brackets, new shaft is dimensions change enough, new muffler, new custom made exhaust riser and exhaust hoses, elbows, etc.. And you know all the above will happen, even if you hope it doesn't. And of course all your time to at least oversee and manage the project, if not to also do a bunch of the work.

 

[O C Diver]

Having bought a boat and replaced the engine, I would consider changing manufacturer and determining your needs before picking a brand.

Work backwards by determining the speed you want to push the boat, then the HP required to accomplish it, then look for candidates and whether rebuilding the old transmission will give you the correct gear reduction, and finally will the engine will fit in the same location.

Imo, increasing the HP is generally a bad option as it's more likely that the transmission and maybe the shaft, and propeller won't handle the increased load. A slightly lower HP with similar maximum RPM will be more likely to use other existing components.

As mentioned, price will be a huge factor. I'm not sure what the current market value of a manatee is and the condition of this one, but the margin of error after calculation of costs may make the boat unbuyable from the owner.

I to would give a nod towards Beta Marine. While the 4 cylinder Cummins at 150 HP might be an option, I'm guessing a higher HP transmission may be required and then there's the question about whether the propeller shaft will handle the additional HP.

Ted

 

[Mako]

If I had to change engines I would definitely avoid Volvo for crazy cost of spare parts.
Cummins I know are good engines as long as its built in the states not imported from Cummins China but they're still a bit noisy and hard.

Wondering why the slam against Cummins from China. I would think that there's a good chance that any spare parts you buy here in the State probably were manufactured there as well. Do you have solid evidence of defective materials/workmanship from Chinese Cummins, or is that just a personal preference?

 

[danderer]

I'm sure this isn't the first Manatee to be repowered. You might ask in the various owners groups/forums (where there are more owners than here) for thoughts.

 

[SIBERNUT]

Don't know about use ability, but there's a million 4BTs around for parts.

 

[BruceK]

Wondering why the slam against Cummins from China. I would think that there's a good chance that any spare parts you buy here in the State probably were manufactured there as well. Do you have solid evidence of defective materials/workmanship from Chinese Cummins, or is that just a personal preference?

The Cummins emblazoned genset solenoid I bought from Cummins in Australia, made in China. It worked fine, so quality was ok. Identical to a back up one I bought on ebay for 1/5th the Cummins price, so the margin is ok too, for Cummins..

 

[JYoung]

Do not buy it.

 

[OCEANA]

Former KK42 owner, me, downsized a few years ago to a Mainship 30....NOW the admiral wants a bigger boat we can sleep on again....

Found a 85 Manatee in a perfect location locally but...
last winter she was nosed into a slip with high stern waves flooding the muffler and the owner "toasted" the engine (hydrolocked, I guess) with probable broken rod piston or worse.

Long story short, needs a new engine. Locals say that rebuilding a TAMD 30 is a fools choice. Should i try to find a used TAMD 30 or put in something else like a Yanmar or Cummins?

I expect it will eventually cost 30-40K for a new engine. Ideas?

Honestly, find a different boat where someone else had already replaced or taken excellent care of the engine...

 

[Nomad Willy]

Post #12 by by OC Diver is really excellent IMO.

Lots of Beta comments. Good engines but British and expensive.
When I was facing the re-power issue I picked an industrial engine (Mitsubishi) for far less money and lots more choices on details like cooling system, oil filter options and transmissions.

And I applaud the smaller engine idea. Speaking of power at re-power time here’s the time to change the size or/and power for your boat. Every skipper has different notions and needs re total power. RPM, #of cylinders, fuel system type like pre-champers and heaters/glo plugs, crankshaft rotation and many other things. With a previous boat my engine had a lot of aluminum parts. Corrosion and noise can be addressed by opting for all iron/steel in the re-power.

In Seattle (Lake Union and Ballard) you’ll find quite a few engine sources. See where the fishermen get their engines. The pleasureboat market offers well known common brands but high prices and few options. I had a remote oil filter and bronze sea water pump. I could get a pump impeller in a hardware store or at NAPA.

Choices choices choices. But not after you’ve made your choice.

 

[Capt Dan]

Beta Marine is tops. Talk to Stanley.
Don't overpower! The Beta are mostly Kubota and mechanical so you can actually fix something yourself.

 

[adornato]

re powering an old boat

I decided to let someone else take on the Manatee repower challenge. Too time intensive for me at this point in my career.

Will keep an eye out for the boat that has already been re juvenated.

My 2002 Mainship 30 which I bought in 2018, had been re powered by previous owner about a year before he sold it. He put in a new Yanmar 4 stp 245 hp and I saw the receipt for the engine alone....$31000 plus install labor for same engine mounts, trans, instruments, controls etc. He didnt get his money back when he sold the boat.

 

[adornato]

I am pulling the plug on this deal.. Will look for a boat that has a good engine. Life is short.

 

[Mac2]

I am pulling the plug on this deal.. Will look for a boat that has a good engine. Life is short.

As a previous owner of the Manatee (15 years), I would reconsider your decision. I don't think you will find a better built boat from the mid 1980's. Mostly due to the pvc coring material that doesn't rot. As proof I sold my Manatee for 20k more than I paid for it. The Krogen name is well known and comes into play for resale. I would instead make the lower offer taking into account the new/rebuilt engine-definitely not a Volvo. No need for anything more then 95-110 hp. The Hassle of the rebuild will be worth the piece of mind of knowing you have a solid/reliable engine.

 

[Mako]

IF you plan on a long term own…

… then I agree with @Mac2. Use the bad engine to chew the seller down even more. Just the threat of pulling out helps you to negotiate lower. But don’t overpower - that alone will save you significant money.

 

[healhustler]

I have a repowered Manatee. Unless one intends to change prop shaft, prop and a plethora of other things, finding an engine with a similar torque, HP & RPM curve with a deck height that will fit under the hatches can be challenging. Est to check around to see what swaps are working well right now.

 

[healhustler]

There are two boats here in Sarasota with series 4LH-HTE 140HP Yanmars,
Good fit, very similar torque & HP curves and identical red line. Mine still utilizes the original 22 x 13 LH prop that came with the Volvo.

The famous Man-a-Tee (on their 34th loop I think) sports a late model 110 Volvo I think, but at least one boat out therr features a 160 HP version.

If I had to replace my Yanmar, I’d probably be looking at a 4JH 85 HP Yanmar. There’s a million of them out there and used engine take-out are simple to find. Ultimately, I’d go for a John Deere 4045 but it’s too tall. The Kabota 85 (Beta) would be excellent but it may also be too tall.

Any more than 100 HP is a waste in a Manatee. The last 50 HP or so of my Yanmar just digs a bigger hole for the stern to fall into, and burns fuel for nothing. At 7.knots it’s at rest and 2GPH. This could likely be obtained easily by 85 HP and a bit less fuel.

 

[jbow]

I am pulling the plug on this deal.. Will look for a boat that has a good engine. Life is short.

Hi, If you are serious about a rejuvenated Manatee contact at following. I have one up in the Bellingham area and have spent the last three years doing a refit on it. I had a KK 42 also, sold it and bought the Manatee as a Covid project. I am an experienced boatbuilder having completed two large sailboats from a bare hull. Anyway, if seriously interested email me at rellabella@comcast.net