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RobClipper30 12-27-2020 11:49 PM

Electric stop on FL80 Diesel
 
1 Attachment(s)
Hi folks,

Have a problem and thought Iíd turn to the collective wisdom of the group for some advice.

New purchase of 40 year old Clipper Flybridge 30ft with the original Ford Lehman 80 HP Diesel.

Electric stop doesnít work, I can see the arm move a little but it canít seem to make it all the way so I have to lift the saloon floor and pull it manually each time.

Photo attached. Sorry itís not great resolution.

Guessing itís the Solenoid (the white thing?) Battery levels is at full capacity so assuming itís not power related but havenít confirmed with voltmeter or anything.

Keen to see if I can fix it myself but have to preface this by saying Iím completely green / novice at all things mechanical but Iím eager to learn if someone can point me in the right direction!

Comodave 12-28-2020 01:24 AM

Call Brian at AD. He is very willing to help, and he knows his stuff.

BruceK 12-28-2020 01:48 AM

Guessing it was originally mechanical, can you rig a line to the lever temporarily until you get someone to look at it?
Is that plastic container the coolant overflow bottle mentioned in the other thread? It`s not the usual kind. If coolant is reducing in the bottle, unless the bottle leaks, it`s likely going back to the header tank which in turn might be returning coolant to the engine. Check for leaks at the cap,usually only 4psi, and anywhere else, esp the tube from under the tank which gets eaten away and loses seal with its hose (well it is/does on a 120).
Where are you in Sydney? I think you need a mechanic. Marinetec on the northern beaches advertise in Afloat Magazine and do Lehman parts, but for now access could be difficult.
A common FL oil leak is the rocker cover gasket, see if it will nip up. Otherwise check for leaks. You don`t tell us the engine hours but some oil use is possible. It does look a tad rusty down there.

catalinajack 12-28-2020 05:20 AM

It's a 40yo engine. That stop solenoid may only need a bit of lubrication inside the bellows protecting the shafts. Dryness may be impeding retraction into the solenoid.

As for the rocker cover possibly being the source of your oil leak, that is a good possibility. I have had that experience. Tightening the securing screws may help but those cork gaskets are certainly very hard now after being in place for many years. Give it a try but DON'T crank down on them too much. If you do, you will certainly bow the mating surface of the cover. If that happens, when you go to replace the gasket you will not get a good seal and may end up with a worse leak. I've been through all of this.

mvweebles 12-28-2020 05:25 AM

My Perkins 4.236 had a manual pull cable shut down instead of a solenoid. Likely a PO replaced a broken solenoid. Cable has always been really stiff and a bit klugey but worked fine. I'm in the process of reverting to solenoid.

American Diesel would be my first call. For me, I needed a bracket that while not cheap from TAD (Perkins dealer, sort of equivalent of AD), was easier than fabricating a bracket. Second, some Perkins injector pumps have integral shut down solenoids - had it been one of those, matching parts exercise would ensue. A plain mechanic would not due.

Good luck

Peter

Ski in NC 12-28-2020 10:53 AM

Measure the volts at the solenoid when someone presses the stop button. Those solenoids can draw a lot of amps and the volts can drop too low for reliable action.

Definitely lube the mechanism and check that linkage is not binding in any way.

Also a booster relay can be added so that the high amps does not have to course all the way to the helm and back. Same sort of circuit as used to energize starter bendix. Many engines come from the factory with that relay, some don't.

Solly 12-28-2020 11:04 AM

If not to hard to do I'd remove it and take it to a known good battery. Run a couple wires and check it. You eliminate the wiring that way. Doesn't hurt to manually move the cutoff back and forth and a little lube can't hurt either.
If you don't get it to work you have it in hand when ordering another. Either online or in person.

RobClipper30 12-28-2020 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ski in NC (Post 958277)
Measure the volts at the solenoid when someone presses the stop button. Those solenoids can draw a lot of amps and the volts can drop too low for reliable action.

Definitely lube the mechanism and check that linkage is not binding in any way.

Also a booster relay can be added so that the high amps does not have to course all the way to the helm and back. Same sort of circuit as used to energize starter bendix. Many engines come from the factory with that relay, some don't.


Thanks very much for this - so should I be getting 12v to it?

And what sort of lubricant do you suggest?

Ski in NC 12-28-2020 10:52 PM

Due to line losses, I'd figure 10V or below indicates poor wiring. Regarding the lube, anything slimy will work.

Lepke 12-28-2020 11:14 PM

The solenoid was probably added to replace a cable. If the solenoid is bad, search "12v pull solenoid" on ebay. They run about $10-20.

BruceK 12-29-2020 12:15 AM

Initially, maybe WD40 or similar,seeing corrosion in the area, then anything,maybe Castrol/Singer Household Oil or similar.

SoWhat 12-29-2020 12:15 AM

Disconnect linkage. You should get full throw with 12V. If not, lubricate and try again. Make sure connector contacts are bright and shiny.

You can buy a new 1502 solenoid on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/Shutdown-Sole.../dp/B07R45P1VS

FF 01-02-2021 07:19 AM

IF you have Da Book for your engine you might see a mechanical pull system to stop the engine.

Replace it and your worries will be over.

RobClipper30 01-10-2021 06:34 AM

Update
 
5 Attachment(s)
Hey all,

Thanks for the advice. Coming back here with an update after some more tests.

As a recap, pulling the electric stop switch only partially moved the solenoid / arm which wasnít enough to stop the engine.

Reiterating Iím way out of my depth here but I got the multimeter on it in a few spots per some of the suggestions so please bear with me as I try and explain it.

Iím not sure I had the gauge on the right settings but hereís two photos - first is a reading of 51.6 which is on the bolt/fitting/wire inside the casing attached right to the solenoid. See photo 1 and 2 for examples

Second is further Ďupstreamí on the actual wire that powers the solenoid at 66.2... see photo 3 for example

Both of those only have readings when the stop button being pulled.

Ie I believe I was losing some power in between the fittings and since the pulling the stop was moving the arm slightly just not all the way this is looking to me like a good lead as to the problem?

I thought Iíd test this theory and put the positive wire directly into the solenoid so as to rule out all the other little bits. As we pulled the stop cable i got a couple of sparks, the solenoid arm moved all the way (!!!).. and then some safety fuse must have tripped as it turned the ignition off all together.. see photo 4 for example.

So trying to take some initiative I cleaned the connections and even replaced the little ring thing the wire inside the solenoid attaches to (believe itís called a terminal). See photo 5 for example - I replaced the terminal with a new one and crimped the wire in good and tight.

Put it all back together (loosely not super tight) but now when i pulled sparks flew the first time so I didnít test it again.

So my main question is do the bolts / terminals / rings / washers etc have some role in moderating the amount of electricity / volts / amps getting from the positive wire through to the solenoid? Or is it that perhaps there is meant to be that much going through but it just needs to be all really tight etc so canít spark.

Or anything else jumping out at you guys?

Thanks a tonne in advance for any ideas!

Island Cessna 01-10-2021 07:45 AM

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Attachment 112544

timb 01-10-2021 08:52 AM

set the meter on the twenty it should read 10 or more on the meter . mine needs what ski suggested or tracking down the voltage drop from the top station . but I will have to disconnect the oil pressure alarm can't think with that damn buzzer sounding off . my lower helm works so I know it's wiring the upper helm voltage gage drops like it's in the flybridge feed. does your voltage gage drop when you pull the switch.

also that lever does look strange

catalinajack 01-10-2021 09:05 AM

That bolt with the two washers, where did that attach? Looks strange to me also.

RobClipper30 01-17-2021 05:13 AM

Further update
 
4 Attachment(s)
Hi all,

So I got down there today and took a bunch of what I hope are more useful photos and some more multimeter readings.

The first photo I hope shows the setup.

What I did was take this apart and test the powering wire on its own (by which I mean the external wire that feeds from the outside of the solenoid box). It is receiving 11.80v when the stop lever is pulled.

Next I checked the inside wires of the setup ie the terminal inside the solenoid box - 9.10v.

So some power loss happening for sure.

Is this enough to stop the mechanism from working you think?

And what could be the cause? Dirty parts? I cleaned the faces of the little rings / terminals but the bolt was harder to clean.

Photo of terminals and bolt for instance attached.

Pete Meisinger 01-17-2021 09:18 AM

Clean and lube. Check manually for full action. Clean the electrical connectors.

By the way. Mine stopped working for a while. I didn't have time to troubleshoot it so ran a line (rope) to it and drilled a convenient hole to have it come through the floor. After I found and fixed the problem (electrical) I left the line in place. You never know when you may need it.

pete

rgano 01-17-2021 10:55 AM

My FL 120s had a mechanical pull at the lower station to shut them down. Far less complex and so much more dependable that a solenoid. Dump the electrics.


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