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Simi 60 04-15-2018 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenk (Post 654783)
But who is Joe Public and are they safe? Heck today we have kid bringing guns to school and killing people. Who can we trust and who can not be trusted.

That's a monster of your* own creation, and you* reap what you sew, further discussion of which will ultimately have the thread closed down.


Needless to say that our volunteer coast guard and volunteer marine rescue is unarmed and never had an issue.



*not you personally

78puget-trawler 04-15-2018 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O C Diver (Post 654665)
As a person minding your own business and bothering no one, how do you feel about:

TSA security screenings at the airport.
Random IRS audits
Cell phone data mining
etc.

In the 21st century public safety has infringed on some of our freedoms. Don't like it, stay home or run for public office and change the laws.

Ted

Don't like any of it. The loss of personal freedoms is the biggest danger we face, and its happening little by little.

Simi 60 04-15-2018 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 78puget-trawler (Post 654790)
Don't like any of it. The loss of personal freedoms is the biggest danger we face, and its happening little by little.

Boiling frogs

jimisbell 04-15-2018 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaltyDawg86 (Post 654734)
Thomas Jefferson....

I knew Orwell had a source that was reliable. Cant beat T Jefferson for real insight.

jimisbell 04-15-2018 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simi 60 (Post 654739)
"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery" is a translation of a Latin phrase that Thomas Jefferson used: "Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." It has also been translated as, "I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude."


https://www.monticello.org/site/jeff...very-quotation

Genralisimo Emiliano Zapata gave us a version of it when he said, "I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees"

Benthic2 04-15-2018 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simi 60 (Post 654778)
Agreed.
Perhaps leave the rescuing for the rescuers and the military bit for the navy
OR
Simply leave the guns and military garb back on the big boat when dealing with Joe Public

First of all....the USCG IS the military, and as for leaving the guns and garb when they board a boat, Its a lot easier AND safer for "Joe Public" to trust a trained uniformed USCG officer to not shoot a boater, than it is to trust a potential bad guy not to shoot at the Coasties. I know I'm not a bad guy, but until the officers get on board and talk to me for a few minutes, they don't know what I am. I'm quite confident they'll figure out I'm just a recreational boater enjoying the water very soon. And I'm in Massachusetts......The risks are probably much greater in the Gulf Coast/Florida area for boarding parties

Baker 04-15-2018 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psneeld (Post 654168)
once you have a boarding CG4100 boarding form, they are supposed to not board you for another year without probanle cause.

Because there was a discrepancy, I believe now you may not have that priviledge.

Once you get a clean one, then so.

But in reality, if you are in the right place at the right time.....sure you might get boarded and no USCGAUX sticker or previous 4100 will matter.

I had the paperwork and the sticker from a USCG AUX inspection. They boarded me anyway. Now Wendy knows exactly where both pieces of paper are and anytime they start eyeballing us, she runs down to grab them and is prepared to present them immediately.

Alaskan Sea-Duction 04-15-2018 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BandB (Post 654489)
I have found in talking to people along the way and CG officers that placing value on a USCG inspection varies widely by officer and by location. I've found it carries virtually zero value in South Florida. Now, boarding in South Florida is an entirely different game. While some is done for routine inspection, the real interests are smuggling of people, drugs and firearms.

As to earlier conversation about refusing boarding, don't even thing about objecting or questioning. The moment you throw up a red flag, you're going to get a thorough inspection. I've heard of a drunk passenger aboard trying to play "highway" attorney on a boat and start talking non-existent laws. The one incident I'm aware of the passenger was arrested and every inch of the boat was inspected plus the boat ticketed for every possible violation, regardless of how minor. The officers deserve respect and they'll demand it. If any don't show worthy of respect deal with that another time through appropriate channels. We have been stopped once in coastal waters or offshore. We were stopped 4 times on the Great Lakes and I do believe it was all bikini induced, lengthy talk three times and one boarding.

Agree Florida is a completely different world than the PNW.

Understand and agree with you with regards to USCG. But the situation is different for LEOs. My meaning here is Sheriffs and State Police. They must prove probable cause to board, as with any home.

Alaskan Sea-Duction 04-15-2018 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDan1943 (Post 654582)
Anyone know the form number to get the custom's sticker?
Can it be done on line?

I tried once in the port of Ft Lauderdale, they sent me to "preferred traveler". I thought I was in Cuba. The crowd was huge. I'm thinking it was not the right place so I left.

https://dtops.cbp.dhs.gov/main/#%20

Baker 04-15-2018 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction (Post 654839)
Agree Florida is a completely different world than the PNW.

Understand and agree with you with regards to USCG. But the situation is different for LEOs. My meaning here is Sheriffs and State Police. They must prove probable cause to board, as with any home.

In Texas, the Game Warden(TPWD) does not need probably cause. And they patrol our waterways heavily....not just for game issues but for safety compliance.

Alaskan Sea-Duction 04-15-2018 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRENE (Post 654605)
An article at the link below provides a concise overview of the authority for a USCG boarding (NOT a USCG Auxiliary examination or a state/local law enforcement vessel stop).

The Fourth Amendment Rights vs. Boarding Power of the United States Coast Guard - https://mblb.com/admiralty-maritime/...s-coast-guard/

Great post. Thank you

BandB 04-15-2018 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baker (Post 654835)
I had the paperwork and the sticker from a USCG AUX inspection. They boarded me anyway. Now Wendy knows exactly where both pieces of paper are and anytime they start eyeballing us, she runs down to grab them and is prepared to present them immediately.

Psneeld made the comment earlier that I've seen too. Not only do they not value the AUX inspection on the East Coast. They have a suspicion that those with it may think it makes them safe and try to take advantage.

I know that many Auxiliary members are dedicated and very fine people trying to help others. Some CG'ers see that. Other's see wannabe's or pretenders trying to act like they're CG. I heard one rant one day that shocked me. I do think it was aimed though at a specific Auxiliary member who he'd apparently tangled with. It seemed to me the Auxiliary was more active and respected in the PNW.

dhays 04-15-2018 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 78puget-trawler (Post 654790)
Don't like any of it. The loss of personal freedoms is the biggest danger we face, and its happening little by little.



You do realize that the “loss of freedom” related to the USCG happened about 250 years ago.

78puget-trawler 04-15-2018 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhays (Post 654851)
You do realize that the “loss of freedom” related to the USCG happened about 250 years ago.

Yes dad....

SaltyDawg86 04-15-2018 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psneeld (Post 654750)

wrong yet again...theres idiots and criminals in the USCG, almost as many as in the Metchant ranks.. :)

thats the difference between you and me..... I dont condem the whole merchant marine for some idiots and crminals....

I am the first to say there might a reason for that wreck, oil spill, grounding, etc....

I see you made a little edit here. Funny you say I condemn the whole USCG, but I've never said that nor shown that. I don't have a problem with rules, regulations, the law or anything like that. I do have a problem with over reaching. I make a comment about that and get a fire storm of insults because I'm not in the clique here and appears I never will be. Oh well, I'm fine with that.


QUOTE="psneeld;654763"]While its easy to disagree with that tiny part of the USCG and a FEW rare bad interactions..... the whole makeup of the USCG is a bit more complex.

When you have over a dozen major mission categories assigned to an agency, yeah, it has a few rough edges.

It takes a lot of professionalism to have as good of a reputation as tbey do.[/QUOTE]

Spoken like a true Coastie. I'm batting about .500 when it comes to CG interactions. I've had a few dealings with old timers who enjoy their jobs, are pleasant and very knowledgeable. Sadly, they're few and far between.

Most of my interactions have been with people who are pleasant, but don't really know what's going on. Either they're young with very limited experience or they just want to blow through. Great when everything is on the up and up, but sucks when you want to being things to their attention.

Then there are the ones who have a power hungry attitude and are clueless. That just makes everything suck and those are the ones I condemn. Don't want to learn anything, already know it all and has something sarcastic to say at every twist and turn.

Rarely I experience someone with a bad attitude that's knowledgeable. I'd rather deal with that then the above though.

On the whole, the CG is great. Usually y'all are the ones coming out to save our butts, but I don't agree with the whole "We can board you whenever we want because we can!" attitude. I'm allowed to feel that way and it doesn't mean I have some attitude or problem with authority. Nor does it mean I've condemned an entire organization.

Hey, I get it though. I'm not in the clique, so whenever I post something that's not in line with the group's thinking, I'm ready to defend it and fend off attacks. I don't post things just to post, I can back them up with facts or personal experiences. But often that doesn't matter, I still get insulated and it's all good. I have thick skin.

OldDan1943 04-16-2018 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction (Post 654842)

Thanks for the info. I guess I should fill out the necessary forms etc.
I saw that before but for some reason, I didn't complete the process.
Times had changed since I had it on the first boat. I dont know if life has gotten more complicated or I am just dont care anymore.

The first time I got the annual crossing permit, I drove into the port of Ft L., stopped at a building, looked at the form and was a bit slow filling it out, the guy at the desk took it back, looked at my documentation, completed the form, gave me the sticker, I think I paid something, out the door. It took longer to drive there than it did to complete the paper work.

Now, takes more paper work and the time on the road is longer too.

OldDan1943 04-16-2018 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction (Post 654839)
Agree Florida is a completely different world than the PNW.

Understand and agree with you with regards to USCG. But the situation is different for LEOs. My meaning here is Sheriffs and State Police. They must prove probable cause to board, as with any home.

I totally agree, FL is a different world because of drugs and people smuggling.
I have yet to be pulled over by the USCG but, .....
I can understand the 'show of force', it is for their protection and safety. I can tolerate that.
LEO, okay, so they maybe they dont have an obvious 'cause'. You tell them NO and you might be detained until they can wake up a judge. They might also pass along your less than desirable attitude and you get inspected frequently until your attitude improves.

My suggestion, unless you are in a dangerous part of the river, relax, let them go about their business and it will all be over quickly. IF you are in a busy channel or perhaps an unsafe part of the river.... ask if you can move the boat to a safer area.... If they want, they can provide someone to move the boat too.

In FL, GA plates and DL..... I got pulled over, in my car, yea, the young officer was correct. I some how managed to break about 6 moving violations in less than 50 ft, at less than 5mph. He detained me for about 30 mins, ran a radio check, came back "just a little old man", had a non-resident with me, never asked for her id. After 30 mins, he came back, gave me a verbal warning, I was "yes sir, no sir, sorry sir". I could see the frustration on his face. All the laws I broke, if I had to go to court, I might as well have taken a taxi because I would not be driving back to the boat..... "leave your license at the desk where you pay the fines."
Dont argue, be remorseful, respectful etc.....
Although I have a concealed weapons permit, I was not armed. Had I been armed, that would be my first sentence out of my mouth and I would surrender my fire arm.... without question if asked/told. I never have a round in the chamber.
The LEOs are more upset/afraid of an armed citizen than the USCG, I dont know why. BUT, this is south FL, a different world. Too many cops have been shot.
I just live with it. SHRUG. I can take so much.... Between the dashboard cams, body cams, voice recorders, police radios, helicopters and the possibility of additional LEO showing up to tear gas me and or taser me, pull me through the window..... appearing on the 6 o'clock news...... I think I will just sit there or stand next to the car.... and wait quietly. If necessary, I think I can cry on command too.
NEVER argue with LEO, never argue with the USCG. They have more guns than me AND they have the courts and jails. I am still too pretty to go to jail even for 12 hours. Ya'll do what you want, behave as you want, go right ahead, piss of the LEO officer and or the USCG.....
Remember, at the end of the day, we all want to go home to the family or in my case, to the boat.

siestakey 04-16-2018 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDan1943 (Post 654893)

In FL, GA plates and DL..... I got pulled over, in my car, yea, the young officer was correct. afraid of an armed citizen than the USCG, I dont know why. BUT, this is south FL, a different world. Too many cops have been shot.
I just live with it. SHRUG. I can take so much.... Between the dashboard cams, body cams, voice recorders, police radios, helicopters and the possibility of additional LEO showing up to tear gas me and or taser me, pull me through the window..... .

Similar situation with us a few years ago Fl tags GA DL I had the new plate sticker in my briefcase. 5'2" fellow pulls me over and tells me my plate is expired. I say sir i forgot to put the sticker on it is in my briefcase. After taking 20 minutes he comes back to the truck and asks us both to get out we do go to the side of the highway. He proceeds to tell me I have arrest warrant for me in Atlanta ( even though I have a GA DL have not been to ATL in years) when he says this my wife bursts out laughing. Mr 5'2" did not like the little southern bell laughing at him, so asks for her DL. During this I am trying to tell the guy if he will scroll down the page and look at the guys mug shot he will realize it is not me ( I know because the state police GBI came to our house a few months prior and when I answered the door they asked for Mr. Tucker and I said that is me they laughed and showed me the other Mr Tuckers mug shot) so Mr 5'2" proceeds to tell me not to argue with him just as 2 back up cars pull up and the one with more strips says to Mr 5'2" " Sgt were is the Mr. Tucker" his reply was to point at me and he says " Sgt did you take the time to scroll down your screen and look at the mug shot?"> At this time wifey busts out laughing as does the captain. Well it was a rather entertaining 45 minutes!!!

BTW the other Mr. Tucker had the same birthday as me 4 years later.

OldDan1943 04-16-2018 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by siestakey (Post 654897)
Similar situation with us a few years ago Fl tags GA DL I had the new plate sticker in my briefcase. 5'2" fellow pulls me over and tells me my plate is expired. I say sir i forgot to put the sticker on it is in my briefcase. After taking 20 minutes he comes back to the truck and asks us both to get out we do go to the side of the highway. He proceeds to tell me I have arrest warrant for me in Atlanta ( even though I have a GA DL have not been to ATL in years) when he says this my wife bursts out laughing. Mr 5'2" did not like the little southern bell laughing at him, so asks for her DL. During this I am trying to tell the guy if he will scroll down the page and look at the guys mug shot he will realize it is not me ( I know because the state police GBI came to our house a few months prior and when I answered the door they asked for Mr. Tucker and I said that is me they laughed and showed me the other Mr Tuckers mug shot) so Mr 5'2" proceeds to tell me not to argue with him just as 2 back up cars pull up and the one with more strips says to Mr 5'2" " Sgt were is the Mr. Tucker" his reply was to point at me and he says " Sgt did you take the time to scroll down your screen and look at the mug shot?"> At this time wifey busts out laughing as does the captain. Well it was a rather entertaining 45 minutes!!!

BTW the other Mr. Tucker had the same birthday as me 4 years later.

Yea right, the only difference was the birth dates. SMIRK. Suuuuuure.
Remind your wife, many times laughter does not defuse the situation. LOL
Every think she might be trying to get rid of you???? LOL

siestakey 04-16-2018 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDan1943 (Post 654900)
Yea right, the only difference was the birth dates. SMIRK. Suuuuuure.
Remind your wife, many times laughter does not defuse the situation. LOL
Every think she might be trying to get rid of you???? LOL

I said the same thing to her as we got in the car she said honey it was just surreal I could not believe it as she continued to laugh.

I was assured she was not trying to get rid of me when a few years ago I told her honey Jane Seymour is getting a divorce I guess I will be leaving you. She says yes hun I know but she lives in a castle there will be plenty of room for me also.

markpierce 04-16-2018 02:42 AM

We berth near USCG in Vallejo. Their machine-gun-equipped boats often pass by, and occasionally practice recoveries from helicopters in nearby San Pablo Bay. No sense of needless harassment here.

During the USCG patrols off the weapons depot in Port Chicago, one makes a slight detour, while FlyWright requests an escort to remain in the main channel.

:thumb:

menzies 04-16-2018 07:19 AM

You guys want to see the CG in action with heavy weapons pointed at your chest - try holding course between Fernandina and Kings Bay when they are escorting a boomer out. It is both facinating and scary at the same time.
We had just crossed the inlet when it appeared from the degaussing building. The CG hailed me and told me to proceed to the starboard side of the channel. Well to me that was to my east and I thought it was a strange instruction as it would take me across the boomers path as it headed to sea
But I changed course and did what I was told to find two very excited RIBs bearing down on me and telling me to get over to the port side of the channel right now and go to idle. I immediately complied while reminding them of the initial direction I had been given. They just repeated their direction and both stayed right with me until the sub had passed.
I suspect whoever gave me the first directive meant to say "our starboard!" or just screwed up.

OldDan1943 04-16-2018 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by menzies (Post 654952)
You guys want to see the CG in action with heavy weapons pointed at your chest - try holding course between Fernandina and Kings Bay when they are escorting a boomer out. It is both facinating and scary at the same time.
We had just crossed the inlet when it appeared from the degaussing building. The CG hailed me and told me to proceed to the starboard side of the channel. Well to me that was to my east and I thought it was a strange instruction as it would take me across the boomers path as it headed to sea
But I changed course and did what I was told to find two very excited RIBs bearing down on me and telling me to get over to the port side of the channel right now and go to idle. I immediately complied while reminding them of the initial direction I had been given. They just repeated their direction and both stayed right with me until the sub had passed.
I suspect whoever gave me the first directive meant to say "our starboard!" or just screwed up.

Always repeat the order and in this case, add "MY".
Isn't that nice, you had company LOL

I was on FBMs. Never had the opportunity to see one moving through the water except on films.

Friend of mine went up the river to Kings Bay, he got a radio call to vacate the area because it was restricted. He was either a bit slow responding or did not acknowledge the radio call ..... the 2nd call was not so polite. Sort of a final warning call. He immediately turned and vacated the area. LOL
Never never never p*ss off the guys with fast boats and guns.
If they catch you, it is not the time to start that, "I am an American citizen and I have rights" crap. They will either forceable push you out to sea or detain you for 'further investigation and detention. When you hear the snap of the rubber gloves, it is too late.

Group9 04-16-2018 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baker (Post 654845)
In Texas, the Game Warden(TPWD) does not need probably cause. And they patrol our waterways heavily....not just for game issues but for safety compliance.

One, it's probable cause, not probably cause.

Two, states haven't been allowed to opt out of the Bill of Rights since the ratification of the 14th amendment.

That said, your remedy when they do, is suppression hearings, or in egregious cases, section 1983 civil rights actions.

Also, keep in mind, that if you are ever boarded by the Coast Guard and feel that your boat, or property, was damaged, all federal officials are supposed to carry, and provide upon request, Federal Tort Claim forms, that you can file with their agency, with documentation of the damage, for reimbursement consideration by the agency.

I know in my agency, we were pretty liberal about honoring those requests, when we caused damage, especially as it did not come out of our budget.

Or you can download it.

https://www.aoc.gov/sites/default/fi...rtFormSF95.pdf

GFC 04-16-2018 08:54 PM

By way of a clarification for many of you, LEO's do not need probable cause to board your boat.


What they need is what's called a reasonable suspicion that a crime is occurring or has occurred. The "reasonable" part of that is "would a reasonable man under those same circumstances come to that same conclusion". Or they can board if they feel exigent circumstances exist which "demand" immediate action to prevent a situation from becoming worse. Or words to that effect.

78puget-trawler 04-16-2018 08:59 PM

Probable cause is a requirement found in the Fourth Amendment that must usually be met before police make an arrest, conduct a search, or receive a warrant. Courts usually find probable cause when there is a reasonable basis for believing that a crime may have been committed (for an arrest) or when evidence of the crime is present in the place to be searched (for a search). Under exigent circumstances, probable cause can also justify a warrantless search or seizure. Persons arrested without a warrant are required to be brought before a competent authority shortly after the arrest for a prompt judicial determination of probable cause.


Yep, big difference there......

Benthic2 04-17-2018 12:29 AM

I'd rather get boarded by the Coast Guard than a local LEO, any day of the week, and twice on Sundays!!

Northern Spy 04-17-2018 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MurrayM (Post 654229)
Any Canadians boarded/inspected by Canadian Coast Guard?

Probably not, as the Canadian Coast Guard is not a law enforcement agency.

The RCMP or other police forces can though.

DC36Monk 04-17-2018 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwestman (Post 654313)
The short answer is NO. Since the founding of the Revenue Service (now US Customs) you cannot refuse boarding if you are in US waters. USCG officers are considered Customs officers by regulation. This has been challenged many times all the way to the Supreme Court and has been upheld every time. Though the results can be funny when someone tries.



I disagree. The only Ninth Circuit case i found when I looked a few years ago involves a drug smuggler they had under surveillance in the Bay Area and boarded w/I a warrant. They seized a bilge full of coke. Judge upheld the search in a pretty mosh mash opinion melding exigency because it's mobile with probable cause of in progress felony.

The issue is should you have a reasonable expectation of privacy in your boat. In my 36' trawler I have much of the things that are central to the reason I have privacy in my house. And we know they can't knock on your door and come uninvited into your house without a warrant. What's different ?

I've never been boarded but I assume it would go like this: they pull up and pass a line saying "permission to come aboard, sir? And anyone who sensing they probably will anyway says "yes" and has consented. But, a polite friendly "I'd prefer you didn't, my wife/girlfriend/kids are sleeping in their bunks and I don't want to risk disturbing them" is one approach, the other is no, permission not granted. Is there something Else I can help you with?

It's a straight up Fourth Amendment issue. Why my boat, my home when I'm living there, should not be entitled to the same Constitutional protection mystifies me.

markpierce 04-17-2018 02:47 AM

Monk, you're dreaming. Wake up!

MurrayM 04-17-2018 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northern Spy (Post 655238)
Probably not, as the Canadian Coast Guard is not a law enforcement agency.

The RCMP or other police forces can though.

That makes sense.

I've never heard anyone in our area complaining about random police boardings, have you? How about back east? Australia? Europe?

wwestman 04-17-2018 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DC36Monk (Post 655245)
I disagree. The only Ninth Circuit case i found when I looked a few years ago involves a drug smuggler they had under surveillance in the Bay Area and boarded w/I a warrant. They seized a bilge full of coke. Judge upheld the search in a pretty mosh mash opinion melding exigency because it's mobile with probable cause of in progress felony.

The issue is should you have a reasonable expectation of privacy in your boat. In my 36' trawler I have much of the things that are central to the reason I have privacy in my house. And we know they can't knock on your door and come uninvited into your house without a warrant. What's different ?

I've never been boarded but I assume it would go like this: they pull up and pass a line saying "permission to come aboard, sir? And anyone who sensing they probably will anyway says "yes" and has consented. But, a polite friendly "I'd prefer you didn't, my wife/girlfriend/kids are sleeping in their bunks and I don't want to risk disturbing them" is one approach, the other is no, permission not granted. Is there something Else I can help you with?

It's a straight up Fourth Amendment issue. Why my boat, my home when I'm living there, should not be entitled to the same Constitutional protection mystifies me.

You can disagree all you want BUT they are going to board PERIOD. If you disagree in a way that they disagree with you will end up in handcuffs sitting on the deck. The forth amendment does NOT apply no matter what you or some jailhouse lawyer says. Case law, history, international law all agree. Your opinion means nothing against over two hundred years of US Law. If you want to be secure in your home, stay home and off the water. If it floats the USCG can board it PERIOD.

psneeld 04-17-2018 05:28 AM

Unless a lot behind the scenes has changed in the last few yearsI havent kept up on.....

Maybe the first time they ask.for permisdion, then anything in plain sight of a safety inspection they find is fair game...

if you say no, then tbey say "heave to and prepare to be boarded".... :)

and at that point, anything found in plain sght during their normal safety boarding is still fair game.

I will say, if there is probable cause that you are doing something illegal, as I was involved with countless times, the USCG will request a warrant and shadow you toll they get it. Then they will board.

But for a routine boarding, a no to their boarding request might get you a wave and goodbye, or it may get you a warrant search where they bring chainsaws, dogs and interagency friends aboard along with big guns. :)

OldDan1943 04-17-2018 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psneeld (Post 655262)
Unless a lot behind the scenes has changed in the last few yearsI havent kept up on.....

Maybe the first time they ask.for permisdion, then anything in plain sight of a safety inspection they find is fair game...

if you say no, then tbey say "heave to and prepare to be boarded".... :)

and at that point, anything found in plain sght during their normal safety boarding is still fair game.

I will say, if there is probable cause that you are doing something illegal, as I was involved with countless times, the USCG will request a warrant and shadow you toll they get it. Then they will board.

But for a routine boarding, a no to their boarding request might get you a wave and goodbye, or it may oromot a warrant search where they bring chainsaws, dogs and interagency friends aboard along with big guns. :)

and rubber gloves.

Great Laker 04-17-2018 07:50 AM

Two consecutive boardings in two days
 
I have experienced multiple unnecessary boardings as well. They occurred on the St John's River in downtown Jacksonville. We were the only boat in the area and were headed for tying up on the public wall when a red inflatable hard-bottom CG boat pulled aside with flashers on and announced, not requested, a boarding. We slowed and three fully outfitted, gun carrying personnel came aboard. The forth stayed on the CG boat. They said we could proceed unimpeded, but since we were about to tie up, they required us to maintain our position in the wind and currents.

I provided all the necessary items (documentation, safety items, etc.) including the result of a voluntary CG inspection I had earlier in the year and the window sticker showing compliance. The ignored the sticker and instead spent time looking around the entire interior. It became obvious that the person asking the questions was a beginner and this was in fact a training exercise. This person decided I was in violation because my engine room did not have a vent fan, and were very suspicious of my explanation that I had a diesel engine and the fan was not required and not installed by the manufacturer. Finally, the more senior personnel gave some guidance, and after 45 min of discussion, box checking and having to continue to maneuver to try and stay in place, they gave me a copy of a clear inspection report and departed.

The next afternoon we departed to continue up the St John to a marina, and within a few minutes were intercepted by the same CG boat, but with different personnel, waiving for us to stand by for a boarding. I slowed and held up the previous day's inspection report saying we had passed and wished to continue. They said that didn't matter and we must halt immediately. They boarded and despite my reasoned argument that this was unreasonable, went through much the same process as the day before, again incurring a long delay while a new-bee was struggling with the questions, the form, and the results. This time the trainee couldn't find a shutoff valve on the head (because there isn't one due to having a key lock on the macerator pump) and got confused. He finally capitulated when directed to drop it.

I will say that all of the interactions were conducted in a reasonable and adult manner, and nothing rose to the level of rude or emotional behavior.

Are voluntary inspections a meaningless waist of time? Are multiple consecutive boardings, while legal, fair to the public? Should training be conducted in this matter? Were there classroom training and mock training sessions done in advance? Does the CG lack training resources? Is this an efficient use of senior CG personnel? Is this an abuse of the CG's role?

I come from a city that has been designated "The Coast Guard City USA" and puts on a nationwide attended CG Festival yearly. I grew up around boats, take compliance seriously and have great respect for the CG.

siestakey 04-17-2018 07:58 AM

Larry were both your days on a weekend?

Monk I really think your dreaming but who knows

OldDan1943 04-17-2018 07:59 AM

Larry, I suspect the Miami river is worse for inspections.
A lot of drugs travel the Miami river

Great Laker 04-17-2018 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by siestakey (Post 655315)
Larry were both your days on a weekend?

I checked the log and it was a Wed and Thurs, which probably explains the lack of other boat traffic on the river.

siestakey 04-17-2018 08:11 AM

Larry I was thinking if it was a weekend it would be reserve unit practice like we have in our area

Great Laker 04-17-2018 08:21 AM

I found this on-line:

To join the Coast Guard Reserve, you must be a U.S. citizen or resident alien between 18 and 39 years old (17 with parental consent). While GEDs are sometimes accepted, high school diplomas are preferred. All recruits take the ASVAB test to determine placement.

Coast Guard reservists undergo Basic Training at the Coast Guard Training Center in Cape May, N.J., for eight weeks. Reservists also train one weekend per month and two weeks every summer.


It appears that they train weekly as well, so that could explain the mid-week exercises.

BandB 04-17-2018 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Great Laker (Post 655311)
including the result of a voluntary CG inspection I had earlier in the year and the window sticker showing compliance. .

This is more than semantics. You did not have a voluntary CG inspection. You had a voluntary CG Auxiliary Inspection. Not the CG. Carries no legal value. Note they call it a courtesy inspection.

BandB 04-17-2018 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDan1943 (Post 655317)
Larry, I suspect the Miami river is worse for inspections.
A lot of drugs travel the Miami river

True, but his were on the St. Johns River in Jacksonville.

OldDan1943 04-17-2018 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BandB (Post 655328)
True, but his were on the St. Johns River in Jacksonville.

You make a very good training aid.

Shrew 04-17-2018 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DC36Monk (Post 655245)
I disagree. The only Ninth Circuit case i found when I looked a few years ago involves a drug smuggler they had under surveillance in the Bay Area and boarded w/I a warrant. They seized a bilge full of coke. Judge upheld the search in a pretty mosh mash opinion melding exigency because it's mobile with probable cause of in progress felony.

The issue is should you have a reasonable expectation of privacy in your boat. In my 36' trawler I have much of the things that are central to the reason I have privacy in my house. And we know they can't knock on your door and come uninvited into your house without a warrant. What's different ?

I've never been boarded but I assume it would go like this: they pull up and pass a line saying "permission to come aboard, sir? And anyone who sensing they probably will anyway says "yes" and has consented. But, a polite friendly "I'd prefer you didn't, my wife/girlfriend/kids are sleeping in their bunks and I don't want to risk disturbing them" is one approach, the other is no, permission not granted. Is there something Else I can help you with?

It's a straight up Fourth Amendment issue. Why my boat, my home when I'm living there, should not be entitled to the same Constitutional protection mystifies me.

https://mblb.com/admiralty-maritime/...s-coast-guard/

I was boarded about 5 years ago. Great bunch of guys, it was quick and painless. They were extremely polite and respectful. I suspect that safety inspections were the orders for the day. It was cool and there were only two boats within 20 miles. They finished the boarding with the other boat as I passed by, and they ran up to me and boarded me as well.

After they had been on a while and we had been shooting the bull, I asked "I notice you ask permission to board, what if I had said no?". They laughed and said "We would have boarded anyway, we were just being polite. Our visit would have been much less friendly."

Great Laker 04-17-2018 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDan1943 (Post 655329)
You make a very good training aid.

The CG Aux gets paid... maybe I should too? :)

OldDan1943 04-17-2018 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Great Laker (Post 655334)
The CG Aux gets paid... maybe I should too? :)

Good luck with that.

HARK, did you hear the snap of the rubber gloves? LOL

psneeld 04-17-2018 09:20 AM

The USCGAUX doesnt get paid otherwise I would be one...

I already have some of the uniform stuff... :)

Ski in NC 04-17-2018 09:31 AM

I think the USCG AUX guys get their fuel paid for. Maybe some other expenses.

psneeld 04-17-2018 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ski in NC (Post 655341)
I think the USCG AUX guys get their fuel paid for. Maybe some other expenses.

true...

Alaskan Sea-Duction 04-17-2018 11:17 AM

Larry, what do you think would have happened if AFTER the second inspection, you politely asked for the Commander's name and phone number? If you called and asked why two inspections in two days?


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