PNW to Mexico, Panama Canal, and Florida, on our way at last!

[sunchaser]

Also helpful is towing a drogue, like the SeaBrake, in following seas/bar conditions. Big reduction in broaching potential and with power for helm control, speed is still only 4-5 knots.

An excellent point. When inlet or bar crossing would the line be shortened?

 

[mvweebles]

I carry a sea brake. They recommend something like 125 feet of line and 30 feet of chain. The logistics of trailing that across a shallow inlet and into a channel for retrieval sounds daunting. Of course, a broach sounds pretty daunting too.

My Simrad AP has a follow-up function using the dial on the MFD that should swing the rudder much faster than I can by hand. I may have to play with it before following in Muirgen wake......

Peter

 

[Delfin]

An excellent point. When inlet or bar crossing would the line be shortened?

Good question Tom. Having taken a wave over Delfin crossing the Nahwitti Bar I avoid them, so have no practical experience. My instinct says you would not pay out more than necessary to keep it from skipping, but even at 300' or so and assuming there aren't any right angles to maneuver I doubt it matters. I have mine rigged and ready to go in a stern locker, so maybe I'll find out someday.....

 

[Southern Boater]

Also helpful is towing a drogue, like the SeaBrake, in following seas/bar conditions. Big reduction in broaching potential and with power for helm control, speed is still only 4-5 knots.

I wouldn’t leave port without the SeaBrake, so many different uses.
I endured a horrible rolly night on a rodestead mooring recently, the only thing that made that even basically ok was deploying the SeaBrake over the side with enough weight on the canopy end to make it neutral in the water and tied directly to a mid ships cleat. You don’t realise how much roll dampening it provided until you retrieve it the next morning prior to departure, wow, we could hardly stand up! The dampening would have been considerably more effective had the sea anchor been set away from the hull on arms of course, and/or a second one on the other side.

 

[slowgoesit]

Well, it's Monday, 4 March. We're still n Bahia Del Sol. . . .
On Saturday, 2 March, we attempted to depart across the bar at Bahia Del Sol in El Salvador, enroute to the Panama and a Canal transit.
We cleared out through immigration, and the Port Captain at 0500, and along with another boat, a catamaran heading South to Costa Rica approached the bar with the pilot boat leading the way.
The pilot boat attempted to assist the Cat in crossing the bar, but finally gave up the attempt. The bar waves were forecast at 1 meter, but ended up actually being closer to 1.5 to 2 meters. There was a short period between wave sets, and continuous breaking breaking waves all across the entrance. . . .
We headed back to the Hotel Bahia Del Sol Hotel and Marina, tying back up around 0700.

That evening the pilot boat went back out early to see if an early evening crossing was possible and reported 2 meter breaking waves, so we signed back with immigration (The Immigration and Port Captain folks here in Bahia Del Sol are fantastic. Extremely professional, and helpful!)

The next possible departure date for crossing the bar per the forecast is Wednesday, 6 March, with Thursday, the 7th looking better still.
We have a confirmed Canal Transit date of 19 March, so we've still got time. Knowing that a schedule is a potentially negative situation, we programed in about 2 extra weeks to get down to Panama. If we get across the bar Wednesday, or Thursday, we'll have used up about 8 to 10 days of that leeway.

Worst comes to worse, we'll reschedule our Canal Transit, but that will probably set us back a month to 6 weeks.
Here's hoping we get out on Wednesday or Thursday!

 

[SteveK]

1st world problems.

 

[slowgoesit]

Much as we've enjoyed our stay here in Bahia del Sol, El Salvador, and although we have been told that it is not "normal" to be unable to cross the bar for extended periods of time, our personal advice is as follows:

If you are on a schedule, or short of time, we cannot in good faith recommend that you avail yourself of a visit to Bahia del Sol.

Yes, once again, we understand that a "schedule" is not a good thing on a cruise, we had thought that we had sufficient leeway in our plans which would allow for a 1 week stay here. We had planned on almost three times the necessary time (14 extra days) to get to Panama City for our Canal Transit date, but unsafe, and unforecast conditions crossing the bar has reduced that period to 6 extra days. That will be adequate if we have no further weather or mechanical delays, but it is cutting it closer than we prefer, and means that we will not be able to spend some of those "extra days" enjoying other anchorages on the way to Panama City.

 

[Muirgen Afloat]

Bahia Del Sol has been really relaxing... well everything except the bar. The bar coming in... not the bar at the restaurant. Which we never use, because I make better pina coladas anyway. We have really enjoyed the time here. Enjoyed pupusas both in the little village near here with the marina folk and over on Bill and Jean's island. Bill and Jean have been wonderful and were great hosts when we went over there for Saturday night pupusa party. Most of our time here has been spent hanging on the boat, hanging by the pool or catching up on reading. We have done a few boat things and we did do a trip up the estuary into a town for supplies. You can take a bus into a larger town and go to a big Supermercado, but we didn't. Overall, it's been a lazy relaxing time with some good company and beautiful scenery. Have I said relaxing enough... I'm not sure.. but now we need to get the H*LL out of here and get on our way. Crazy feeling to be a little trapped...

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. s. had to look up Bahia del Sol, El Salvador. By the "bar", do you mean Bocana el Cordoncillo? Rough conditions? I have never had any experience crossing "bars" but I understand the incoming vs. outgoing waters can be treacherous. Thanks.

 

[sunchaser]

Good question Tom. Having taken a wave over Delfin crossing the Nahwitti Bar I avoid them, so have no practical experience. My instinct says you would not pay out more than necessary to keep it from skipping, but even at 300' or so and assuming there aren't any right angles to maneuver I doubt it matters. I have mine rigged and ready to go in a stern locker, so maybe I'll find out someday.....

Was your overtopping wave bow or stern? With Delfin's high freeboard that must have been a sizeable surge.

I've heard from some commercial guys that the Nahwitti Bar is very tricky in that storm surge, tidal flow, moon phases and underwater sand movement makes predicting a challenge. We cruised in the area several times but weather and water were totally benign. I know some, who like Scott right now in El Salvador, waited Nahwitti out for days.

 

[slowgoesit]

Greetings,
Mr. s. had to look up Bahia del Sol, El Salvador. By the "bar", do you mean Bocana el Cordoncillo? Rough conditions? I have never had any experience crossing "bars" but I understand the incoming vs. outgoing waters can be treacherous. Thanks.

RTF,


By "Bar", I mean that the entrance to the lagoon literally has a large sand bar across it that shifts constantly with the wave action. Crossing the bar is best done with the assistance of a guide boat, generally a panga with a couple of people on board. A Panga is generally a 15' to 20' open boat with an outboard motor. The "safe" routes across the bar can vary from day to day.

Labeled Punta del Cordoncillo on Navionics chart, so we're probably talking about the same place.

Dredging is not really an option, with the ability of the waves to move so much sand around in such a short amount of time.

Generally the guide boats look for about 12' of water over the sand bar (if the water were smooth). That allows for decreased water if the boat drops into a trough. We draw 5.5 feet. A boat crossed, coming in, last Wednesday with a 6' draft, and one wave deposited in directly on to the bar, bringing the boat to a full stop until the next wave lifted the boat, and deposited it back in deep(er) water on the lagoon side of the bar.

Earlier in the week, a 90' DeFever, drawing 8.5 feet came with no issues, and departed two days later, after taking on 4000 gallons of diesel, again with no issues.

Personally, we try real hard to not have the bottom of our boat contact the soft or hard stuff on the bottom pretty much ANYWHERE!

The beauty (sometimes literally) of a harbor or lagoon that requires crossing a bar can often be that it is less visited, and less likely to be "discovered", ie; ruined by super yachts, etc. Bahia del Sol is such a place.

If you go to, say, Navionics, and look at the entrance to Bahia del Sol, you will see an area outside the entrance that has a dotted line around it, roughly parallel to the shore, and just off the entrance. It states either "Breakers", or "Breaking waves".

That is the "Bar". If you chose to cross it yourself, with no local knowledge (pilot boat), you do so at your own risk, and could potentially damage, or lose your boat.

Hope this helps! Enjoy!

 

[Larry M]

Here’s the entrance from Google.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. LM. Yep. Pretty much what I saw from my search but with the additional surf. Um....No thanks. Not today.

 

[mvweebles]

Earlier in the week, a 90' DeFever, drawing 8.5 feet came with no issues, and departed two days later, after taking on 4000 gallons of diesel, again with no issues.:

The Defever could make the crossing because of their bigger size and perhaps speed? How are those types od decisions and choices made?

Beat wishes to tiu borb (and the kitties). We miss you guys.

Perfetto

 

[BruceK]

Discussion about bar crossing is important, but I was impelled to discover the meaning of pupusa:
"A pupusa is a thick griddle cake or flatbread from El Salvador and Honduras made with cornmeal or rice flour, similar to the Colombian and Venezuelan arepa. In El Salvador, it has been declared the national dish and has a specific day to celebrate it."
Talk of Southern climes, and bars, had me thinking of Hemingway`s novel "Across the River and Into the Trees", renamed by someone, based on Hemingway`s non Spanish civil war exploits, "Across the Road and Into the Bar".
May your bar crossing be soon, and uneventful.

 

[AlaskaProf]

Bruce,
Your definition of pupusa leaves out an important element. They are filled! with meat, or cheese...or both. They are originally from Central America, but here on the West Coast, they are becoming adopted by Mexican restaurants. I even buy them at Costco. Filled with birria. (shredded bbq'd goat). Can be topped with salsa or poached egg...or both.

 

[heysteve]

The pupusa sounds similar to the Mexican gorditas. Lots of food carts selling those with at festivals and parades filled with anything from steak to Nutella!

 

[AlaskaProf]

The pupusa sounds similar to the Mexican gorditas. ...anything from steak to Nutella!

Similar idea, but a gordito is a fat tortilla (un gordo) which is grilled then slit open and stuffed with whatever is at hand.



A pupusa is made from similar masa dough rolled out like the tortilla then a dollop of filling (my wife likes mild green chiles and cotija cheese) more masa is folded over the filling and pressed, retaining the circular tortilla appearance.


My local Costco sells the goat-filled version in a 10-pack. Refrigerate and fry when hungry. I brush on an egg wash and 6 minutes or so in the air-fryer.


Traditionally, it is served with curtido, a pickled cabbage, but sauerkraut or kimchi work pretty well.

 

[slowgoesit]

The papusa's here in El Salvador are wonderful! Filled with choice of plain, cheese, jalapeno, Chorizo, garlic, bean, served with a shredded cabbage (curtido), lightly pickled on the side.
They were pretty expensive though, costing between $0.75 and $0.85 each! Generally two each would fill Laura and I up, so less than $5.00 for the two of us, including drinks!

Talk about cheap dates! Really yummy!

We successfully crossed the Bahia del Sol bar outbound, heading to Panama at 1015 local time. Almost stuffed the bow once, but not too bad. Laura took a real cool video, but it's too large to load. Minimum water depth was 8.2 feet over the bar, and we draw 5.5. Sooooo, with a really large wave set, it would have been possible to "bump" the sand bar . . . . something we try real hard not do do.

Our original intention was to clear into Panama at Boca Chica. Contact Carlos Spragge, whatsapp # 507-0660-06191

Based on our departure time from Bahia del Sol, our ETA for Boca Chica would have been 2200 hrs, Saturday night. Check in to Boca Chica on the weekend incurs an additional 40% check in costs, above and beyond the normal costs, so it would have been an additional $250 or so, and our arrival time would have been very inconvenient. Slowing down, or speeding up would not have helped a lot unless we did one or the other to extreme. Extreme speeding up is . . . . . well, not an option in our boat! Extreme slowing down would have left us crossing the PapaGayo's at about 4 kts . . . . so we elected to just bypass Boca Chica and continue on to Vista Mar Marina, about 40nm West of Panama City for check in. Should arrive Monday AM, unless we pick a serious tail current. Seas are currently 1 to 2 feet and about 13 second period. More later

 

[Hippocampus]

Scot
Your comment on stabilizers and following seas brings to mind a boating 101 issue for many vessels. In breaking stern seas turn the stabilizers off or lock them and use plenty of power to provide rudder control.

On our DF I shut down the stabilizers often in these conditions, it makes a world of difference whether entering an inlet or on AP. When piloting a SD vessel with stabilizers it seems to make less of difference.

This particular point is a strong reason to consider a Seakeeper type system when doing a new build.

That’s congruent with our experience with a SeaKeeper 5 on a SD boat. One caveat however. Been told if in a rage or crossing a really tough bar going with the seas you can hit the limit where the gyro can’t precede any further. There’s stops on the device. When that occurs it isn’t given you any resistance to roll and it’s hard on the device. So I’m told you’re better off turning it off or locking it so it stays in its storage position. So far we’ve been wimps and haven’t placed ourselves in such circumstances. But know it does fine surfing in 5-6’ short period.

As an aside also learned that to be light ice class fins need the ability to retract into the hull. Or at least be able to fold against the hull. Makes sense you would not want projections sticking out in a field of burger bits or chunk ice. Again another possible reason for gyros.

 

[AlaskaProf]

The papusa's here in El Salvador are wonderful!

 

[Delfin]

Was your overtopping wave bow or stern? With Delfin's high freeboard that must have been a sizeable surge.

I've heard from some commercial guys that the Nahwitti Bar is very tricky in that storm surge, tidal flow, moon phases and underwater sand movement makes predicting a challenge. We cruised in the area several times but weather and water were totally benign. I know some, who like Scott right now in El Salvador, waited Nahwitti out for days.

It was over the bow. Plunged down into the trough and buried the bow, then just green water was all we could see for a couple seconds. I found mud from Bull's harbor on the PH roof that had washed off the anchor.

We've been around Vancouver Is a number of times, and recently discovered that hugging the island dude of Goletas Channel about most of the drama of the timing was just a bit off.

 

[slowgoesit]

Well, about 5 hours ago, a single handing sailor coming down from Chiapas, MX ran afoul of the bar. Not sure what happened, he was rescued, but his boat is a total loss, on it's side, and half submerged. . . . . sobering . . . . The Hotel Bahia del Sol put him up in one of their rooms for free for as long as he needs . . . .

 

[mvweebles]

Thoughts for Rum Truffle. Lost in El Salvador.

Well, about 5 hours ago, a single handing sailor coming down from Chiapas, MX ran afoul of the bar. Not sure what happened, he was rescued, but his boat is a total loss, on it's side, and half submerged. . . . . sobering . . . . The Hotel Bahia del Sol put him up in one of their rooms for free for as long as he needs . . . .

GB flagged Rum Truffle was a Moody 44 under a very capable helmsman with many thousands of ocean miles under her keel. A Brit, the owner was on his way back to the Caribbean. He knows this coast very well. Early reports from the owner is he was following the line the Pilot led, but his 7-foot draft stabbed hard. I have traded notes with him this evening and he's shaken but fine.

Like Slowgoesit, Rum Truffle was on a schedule for a Canal transit though I have no idea what role, if any, that played in his decisionmaking.

Its a very sad day here on the Panama Posse. Mark, the owner, had a booming friendliness to his voice that will be missed on the Monday morning calls (and VHF when in range). I talked with him for a couple hours when we were both anchored at Isla Roquettas near Acapulco. He was an encyclopedia of local knowledge about ports, port captains, and eateries throughout Mexico. I learned a lot in those couple hours with him.

Guessing this is one of the last pictures of Rum Truffle.

Heavy heart this evening.

Peter

 

[sunchaser]

Is this a necessary port to put into? It gets bypassed by many thus my question.

 

[mvweebles]

It's almost 500 nms from Chiapas MX to the first port in Costa Rica. Bahia del Sol is dang close to the midway point and allow staging for the very strong Papagallo winds that sweep across Nicuragua. Guatemala is not a good stop, and there is one possible stop in Nicuragua but there are political issues in both countries. See attached map with chicken-scratches for Chiapas, Bahia del Sol, and Papagallo CR.

Many do bypass and just make the run in one shot. We were planning to stop in El Salvador (Bahia del Sol) to leave Weebles for the summer especially since Costa Rica marinas are very expensive (approach $2k/mo). Will have to rethink our plan given what happened to Rum Truffle.

What is really hard to plan is there is not much tide information. There are two high tides each day. Often one is significantly higher than the other. Scot mentioned a 90 foot Defever drawing 8.5 ft came in/out a few days ago. i wish there was better information on tides. Maybe it's our there and I just haven't found it.

Peter

 

[mvweebles]

Screenshot off an Instagram feed showing Rum Truffle.

Peter

 

[nwh10]

Screenshot off an Instagram feed showing Rum Truffle.

That is just heartbreaking, and I don't even know the guy.

 

[slowgoesit]

The nearest tide reporting station is La Libertad, to the west, up the coast. Locals ad about 20 to 30 minutes to the highs/lowes for the bar entrance. When we went out, the "12 foot channel" showed as low as 8.2 feet on our depth sounder (from water surface) when we departed Wednesday morning. We draw 5.5 feet, so a bit skinnier than we like.
We had serious concerns about going in to Bahia del Sol because of the bar, but as many people here said it was no issue, we went in. And stayed 4 days longer than we had planned because of conditions at the bar. But we made it in and out without touching. Maybe we were just lucky. I don't think we would do it again though.
Our hearts go out to Mark for his loss.

 

[Insequent]

Glad to hear you got out ok and in time to meet your canal transit booking. Like everyone, I share your feelings about Mark's misfortune.

In looking at Google maps, I cant help but wonder why the two seemingly decent commercial shipping ports aren't used as stopovers? Acajutla in the north and La Union in the south. I can see why La Libertad would be skipped.....