Alaska USCG Concerns Violations Maritime Law

From National Fisherman:


https://www.nationalfisherman.com/a...vQkFES0ViN3BmT2l6ZXJ5aVQwVE94ZnYrUCtKWUkifQ==

I'm not sure how this is a surprise...

1) Marijuana was made legal and accessible. The Federal Government is really just behind the curve on this one. One can drink themselves into a stupor, but can't smoke. The Hearst anti-marijuana propaganda from the 30's has somehow ingrained itself into our culture. This, in itself is a hysterical paradox. Hearst was really driving to prevent sustainable hemp, which would have been an alternative to wood pulp for paper. Hearst had invested heavily in forestry to supply his newspaper empire. His campaign basically took each congressman and senator and said "If you don't want to get smeared in my papers during your re-election, you'll get behind me on this". Now marijuana is classified with heroine and cocaine, when even alcohol is worse from an addiction and health perspective.

2) Alaskan Fisheries continue to struggle. Farm raised salmon continues to drive down the cost and increase competition with wild caught. International imports also continue to compete as the international seafood market has moved to 63% farm raised sustainability. Crabs are a becoming a commodity of the wealthy. Decreasing demand for traditional species like herring. As a result more Alaskan fisherman struggle financially as the cost of equipment like liferafts and gumby suits continue to increase.

The two concepts in the report seem like likely and somewhat expected outcomes based on our current socio-economic landscape.

Shrew said:

I'm not sure how this is a surprise...

1) Marijuana was made legal and accessible. The Federal Government is really just behind the curve on this one. One can drink themselves into a stupor, but can't smoke. The Hearst anti-marijuana propaganda from the 30's has somehow ingrained itself into our culture. This, in itself is a hysterical paradox. Hearst was really driving to prevent sustainable hemp, which would have been an alternative to wood pulp for paper. Hearst had invested heavily in forestry to supply his newspaper empire. His campaign basically took each congressman and senator and said "If you don't want to get smeared in my papers during your re-election, you'll get behind me on this". Now marijuana is classified with heroine and cocaine, when even alcohol is worse from an addiction and health perspective.

2) Alaskan Fisheries continue to struggle. Farm raised salmon continues to drive down the cost and increase competition with wild caught. International imports also continue to compete as the international seafood market has moved to 63% farm raised sustainability. Crabs are a becoming a commodity of the wealthy. Decreasing demand for traditional species like herring. As a result more Alaskan fisherman struggle financially as the cost of equipment like liferafts and gumby suits continue to increase.

The two concepts in the report seem like likely and somewhat expected outcomes based on our current socio-economic landscape.

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Expected but failure to follow the rules just shows the blatant disregard for rules in our society.

Now to marijuana. Oh how much we've spent and continue to spend on marijuana policing. Our prisons are full. Our traffic stops and boat stops all with so much emphasis on it. The testing of course says nothing about when it was used. The war on drugs failed decades ago. It was about as successful as our war on Covid 19.

As a Chief Mate on many ships, I lost many very good and competent crew to positive drug test. Every time there was an accident or a mariner got hurt, I was required to do a drug /alcohol test. It seemed that the crew member that were the hardest working, always did a great job, were the ones that didn't pass accident testing. Most of them passed on the random tests as they pretty much knew when they were going to happen. I think the USCG will have to come into the 21 century one of these days soon. Remember that crew on commercial vessels can, if they blow above .04, are in trouble.

I wouldn't blame it solely on the USCG, it's still against federal law so what do you expect from an enforcement agency?

They have repeatedly stated that they will enforce all laws but I have heard/read they have guidance to back off personal use quantities on recreational vessels.

I've long had a problem with the drug testing for credentialed mariners. A heavy drinker can step aboard so hung over after a night out he is marginally functional. A pot smoker may have gotten high weeks before, be fit for duty yet fail the test.

Portage_Bay said:

I've long had a problem with the drug testing for credentialed mariners. A heavy drinker can step aboard so hung over after a night out he is marginally functional.

A pot smoker may have gotten high weeks before, be fit for duty yet fail the test.

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Remember the Exxon Valdez?

I have had to ask guests on ASD to leave their pot in their car. But Tom it is legal here in Washington! My response: "True, until I untie the lines, then I fall under Federal Law, where it is still illegal. Thank you for your cooperation."

Some people are shocked that we don't drug tests in our businesses. Can you imagine trying to operate retail with no employees who ever used marijuana. I once knew a company that required Lie Detector Tests on all new employees. They had retail clothing and their market was young people. On the tests they asked the question had the employee ever used any illegal drug, including marijuana. Now, the manager would warn applicants, so over 50% would never show up. Still of those who did, another 50% failed the test. They had the worst staff around.

I'm personally concerned over the use just as I am over excessive use of alcohol. We're going to likely see long term effects with lung disease and perhaps other effects still to be determined. It's fairly easy to identify those who have a problem and we do advise and counsel and if it interferes with their work performance, then their job is in jeopardy. When abuse of drugs or alcohol is so obvious to others, then it's clearly a problem for the person involved.

Another issue I saw decades ago with drug testing. Companies were testing even office employees where it seldom was a performance issue. However, the employees knew well the risks of being caught on marijuana versus other drugs so would instead use drugs with shorter times in your system. As a result in those offices, no one ever failed on marijuana. Instead the few who failed would do it based on other drugs. Sadly, they were not people whose job performance reflected it.

I don't want someone stoned operating boats or cars, but we don't have the ability to test for that.

i've never been a pot user. When I was in high school (mid 60's) that was the demon drug that would instantly lead you to heroin and other "deadly" drugs. None of the bunch of guys I ran around with used it.

By college time (late 60's) I still didn't know anyone 9who used it. Then I went in the USAF and when I got to Alaska the senior NCO's (all older guys) wanted me to join a group that was going to do a surprise search of the barracks looking for drugs, weapons, etc. I begged off, saying that I didn't want to be on the opposing side of the guys in the barracks who were all about my age.

When I had to take a drug test for my CDL I wasn't worried because I'm still a non-user.

That all being said, I think the feds are way behind modern times and should remove mj from the prohibited drug list. I have many friends who smoke and I honestly can't tell if they have recently smoked unless they're stoned.

BandB said:

I don't want someone stoned operating boats or cars, but we don't have the ability to test for that.

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This is the crux of the problem. We don't want impaired mariners, drivers, or employees. There are good tools for determining if someone is under the influence of EtOH. I am not aware of any similar tools for THC. It would be good if some could be developed.



So, do we say that since testing for marijuana use is inconvenient and not time specific that we accept marijuana use by mariners, drivers, and employees?


Folks don't need to be mariners and they don't need to use marijuana. They can choose.

dhays said:

Folks don't need to be mariners and they don't need to use marijuana. They can choose.

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LOL, very true. My 19 year old son (lives with his mom) lost two nice jobs as he tested positive for mj. But dad its LEGAL! True son, however, an employer has the right to test or may also be required. So now you have a decision to make.

Yes I well remember the Valdez. And I fully support zero tolerance on board, not just on watch. I enforce it on any boat I run.

My problem is with the unfairness of the testing. If I'm so hungover I can barely function as long as I test coming aboard below 0.04 no problem. But if I smoked pot weeks ago and get tested coming aboard I'm screwed. A friend lost his license that way. He was not high when stepping aboard, hadn't gotten high in weeks. He knew better. He was not scheduled for weeks yet but when the ship was short handed due to illness the office "asked" him to come back early. He was randomly tested upon boarding and failed.

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

Remember the Exxon Valdez?

I have had to ask guests on ASD to leave their pot in their car. But Tom it is legal here in Washington! My response: "True, until I untie the lines, then I fall under Federal Law, where it is still illegal. Thank you for your cooperation."

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dhays said:

Folks don't need to be mariners and they don't need to use marijuana. They can choose.

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You could say the same about alcohol and I find far more instances of operating under the influence of alcohol than marijuana as very few will smoke on board but they will drink on board.

Nothing new here as far as business and machinery operation regarding being under the influence. The standard language is "testing positive or operating equipment while impaired will lead to disciplinary action up to and including discharge."

Conditions of employment regarding drugs and alcohol are variable dependent upon the job. They are not complicated and have been in place for a very long time.

Some years ago I read a story written by a top NFL scout. He said that MJ users were quite noticeable in many ways from the standpoint of injuries and conditioning. When operating at the top 0.001% of human physical ability a bit of MJ can make the difference in getting a berth or getting cut.

From the legal point of view, it is just like the border. Federal. The law does not allow mj, but does allow alcohol (not impairment or operating under the influence).

In this day and age, operating machinery (including cars, vehicles, boats, etc.) while under the influence is just crazy. The evidence of the consequences is out there, well known, and has been around for years, yet it still happens.

So just to clarify. I do believe that the USCG is doing their job, as outlined by the Federal Government. Which is why I specifically stated the Federal Government is behind the curve (not that anyone was calling me out specifically, I'm just agreeing).

Nobody said these fisherman failed tests "While operating machinery". Nobody said these were the results post accident testing. The article only states a rise in negative tests, which I have to assume are part of the random testing program.

I have to say that I've known some guys who do amazing things (rock climbing, ice climbing, very fast, very technical dirtbike riding). Smoking in their spare time, then later (while sober) being able to be very very good at these things are mutually exclusive.

Back when I was XO on a guided missile destroyer with 400 crew, it was my job to handle ALL the rules. The level of daily excellence required of everybody weeded out (pun intended) the MJ "dopers" really fast. They were known (largely because of their dopiness) and generally ridiculed by their enlisted peers (NEVER in 24 years saw an officer doper), but there was the code of silence which prevented them turning in the dopers to me, the cop on the beat. However, after I finally caught and kicked out of the Navy the last of 47 dopers people would tell me how much more they enjoyed the atmosphere (literally and figuratively) aboard the ship. Now my wife has grandkids who are dopers, and they are not allowed to visit MY house cuz I just won't put up with that crap.

BandB said:

You could say the same about alcohol and I find far more instances of operating under the influence of alcohol than marijuana as very few will smoke on board but they will drink on board.

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Agreed. The point is that if that person is tested a BAC gives a good measure of their intoxication. Someone can drink a few days before they go out and it not only won’t affect their performance but they won’t have an issue with a test. Marijuana is different in that regard and everyone knows it. So they can choose to use the drug, and take the risk of having a random test before it has cleared their system, or they choose to abstain from using to avoid problems with testing.

Steve Jackson said:

As a Chief Mate on many ships, I lost many very good and competent crew to positive drug test. Every time there was an accident or a mariner got hurt, I was required to do a drug /alcohol test. It seemed that the crew member that were the hardest working, always did a great job, were the ones that didn't pass accident testing. Most of them passed on the random tests as they pretty much knew when they were going to happen. I think the USCG will have to come into the 21 century one of these days soon. Remember that crew on commercial vessels can, if they blow above .04, are in trouble.

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We're a doped up nation, for sure. We self-medicate for every problem. And, I don't know how you put that genie back in the bottle.

Group9 said:

We're a doped up nation, for sure. We self-medicate for every problem. And, I don't know how you put that genie back in the bottle.

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Hasn't distracted driving taken over as the leading cause of car crashes?

Responsibility is key...whether you drink, use THC, use your phone, maintain your vehicle....etc...

As we see in all the COVID garbage.....responsibility for understanding problems is an issue. Some people rebel no matter what, some people either dont or cant critically think through a barrage of sound byte news....and I am sure the psychologists and sociologists can come up with many more reasons why Americans are doing so poorly.

Could it be because of personal responsibility?

dhays said:

Agreed. The point is that if that person is tested a BAC gives a good measure of their intoxication. Someone can drink a few days before they go out and it not only won’t affect their performance but they won’t have an issue with a test. Marijuana is different in that regard and everyone knows it. So they can choose to use the drug, and take the risk of having a random test before it has cleared their system, or they choose to abstain from using to avoid problems with testing.

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Imagine you or any of your loved ones going into the hospital and anyone of the myriad of people responsible for your/their care was just a little stoned. This is where simply putting a decimal point in the wrong place in a medication dose can be fatal. Unlike alcohol, there is currently no way to know how impaired a person is. This is just one example of many jobs where a zero tolerance of marijuana or any drug use is necessary.

Ka_sea_ta said:

Imagine you or any of your loved ones going into the hospital and anyone of the myriad of people responsible for your/their care was just a little stoned. This is where simply putting a decimal point in the wrong place in a medication dose can be fatal. Unlike alcohol, there is currently no way to know how impaired a person is. This is just one example of many jobs where a zero tolerance of marijuana or any drug use is necessary.

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Most likely a current roadblock to legalization.

With alcohol abuse, its tough but easier to spot/ verify....but sometimes very tough.

psneeld said:

Hasn't distracted driving taken over as the leading cause of car crashes?

Responsibility is key...whether you drink, use THC, use your phone, maintain your vehicle....etc...

As we see in all the COVID garbage.....responsibility for understanding problems is an issue. Some people rebel no matter what, some people either dont or cant critically think through a barrage of sound byte news....and I am sure the psychologists and sociologists can come up with many more reasons why Americans are doing so poorly.

Could it be because of personal responsibility?

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Actually, more like a LACK of personal responsibility/accountability!

psneeld said:

Most likely a current roadblock to legalization.

With alcohol abuse, its tough but easier to spot/ verify....but sometimes very tough.

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One of the biggest roadblocks to becoming legal is the humongous size of the lobby to keep it illegal, whose majority of funding comes from the private prison industry that makes obscene amounts of money off of keeping minor dope offenders incarcerated.


Never tried pot, not even once, but then I never tried tobacco either, in ANY form. Just not interested. In Army Aviation, any time there was a PL (precautionary landing), or an OOPS (crash/ etc) the crew members were required to "pee and bleed", meaning urine and blood samples. Actually worked to protect the crewmembers who weren't under the influence as there was not evidence that they were not under the influence. Then again, in the really seldom instances when a crewmember DID test positive I would be one of the first to help throw the book at them. If they're stupid enough to do drugs when they HAVE to realize that they will get caught eventually, I don't want them in my aircraft!


I have drank alcohol, seldom, but only to excess, but never when operating machinery, driving, or in most cases, even leaving the house. Just not worth the possible negative consequences.

There are legal ways to change State and Federal Laws. Rather than break the law and then talk trash about the person who's job it is to enforce the law why not make an effort to legally change the law you disagree with? Seems our society anymore not only dislikes most of our laws but makes it a point to break them and then try to blame the enforcement agencies for doing their job. I am in California few of our laws are enforced here anymore simply because the authorities don't want to deal with the protests or their is some political reason such is the case with Sanctuary Cities. I am for law and order seems most aren't and prefer anarchy. There should be no legal limit for drugs or alcohol on a boat but just because on is allowed doesn't mean we should allow the other.. where is the logic in that?

What most proponents of pot conveniently attempt to forget is that the sole purpose of smoking pot us not its aroma. It is plain and simple to frack up the functioning of their brains.
To insist on smoking such substance is enough evidence of serious judgement problems.
Now, the rational for why anyone would want to have such a smoking character at the helm of a multi-tonnes vehicle escapes me.

Most prefer anarchy? Really?

Derik said:

There are legal ways to change State and Federal Laws. Rather than break the law and then talk trash about the person who's job it is to enforce the law why not make an effort to legally change the law you disagree with? Seems our society anymore not only dislikes most of our laws but makes it a point to break them and then try to blame the enforcement agencies for doing their job. I am in California few of our laws are enforced here anymore simply because the authorities don't want to deal with the protests or their is some political reason such is the case with Sanctuary Cities. I am for law and order seems most aren't and prefer anarchy. There should be no legal limit for drugs or alcohol on a boat but just because on is allowed doesn't mean we should allow the other.. where is the logic in that?

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Portage_Bay said:

I've long had a problem with the drug testing for credentialed mariners. A heavy drinker can step aboard so hung over after a night out he is marginally functional. A pot smoker may have gotten high weeks before, be fit for duty yet fail the test.

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Think about who you would rather have operating a nuclear power plant. Someone who can't function for the first four hours of his/her shift until those four cups of coffee take effect, or one who smoked a joint five weeks ago?

Caffeine addiction is perfectly legal, and the example I gave is quite common in the nuclear industry. The pot smoker would be fired immediately.

Our system is out of whack. But I agree that everyone knows the law, no excuses.

Group9 said:

We're a doped up nation, for sure. We self-medicate for every problem. And, I don't know how you put that genie back in the bottle.

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Exactly!

Regarding cannabis use by retail or other workers: would you want your children to buy a blouse from a clerk that was high on pot? Or, would you want your elementary school son to eat fast food made or served by someone who smokes weed? Imagine what could happen!

Personally I feel that workers in those sorts of jobs should be as miserable as possible and I have zero tolerance for anything that stops the hours from dragging by......

Woodland Hills said:

Regarding cannabis use by retail or other workers: would you want your children to buy a blouse from a clerk that was high on pot? Or, would you want your elementary school son to eat fast food made or served by someone who smokes weed? Imagine what could happen!

Personally I feel that workers in those sorts of jobs should be as miserable as possible and I have zero tolerance for anything that stops the hours from dragging by......

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Funny, if I think is post is a total joke...or totally serious.... I come up with the same conclusion.

If in between...what's the point?