Vaccination passports

[AZ2Loop]

AZ
You may be able to exclude NYC but there are plenty of communities and counties N of NYC that commute daily to NYC to work. I dont believe there is a city in FL that compares to NYC and surrounding counties. NYC alone is 5 counties.
......

Then after I explained that I did eliminate all 5 counties that make up NYC, plus 2 more, to get to a county to county comparison that was similar in both density and other demographics, you came back with this:

AZ2
I understand you eliminated all NYC counties and immediate surrounding.
My point is that many counties and in fact surrounding states like CT and NJ have residents that commute DAILY to NYC to work. How do you eliminate them?

So now I have to eliminate CT, NJ, and other surrounding states? Of course I already did. They are not in the study at all! Should I eliminate Mars, too? Would it surprise you that I already did? I don't think many of the daily commuters from CT and NJ are commuting to Rockland County NY to work in the state park. It is a county with less than 1600 people per square mile, and actually has less population than the FL county I used with far greater population, let similar density. And the few who do commute in make up a number that is not even close to the number of people flocking to the FL beaches in the county I selected there. Not even close!

No matter how much data is available showing the lockdowns and shut downs are not effective, some are just not willing to accept it. I'm sure we see most things similarly, but will likely never agree on this one. I guess that's what makes the world go around. I have enjoyed the discussion, though, so thanks for participating.

 

[Hippocampus]

In medicine for any intervention you need to obtain informed consent. The rules for obtaining informed consent are very strict. Failure to obtain informed consent is a common reason for Med/mal suits.
This issue of being forced to do anything by a health care practitioner isn’t operative in the real world.
So if you want to assume an increased of getting Covid that’s your choice. If you choose to increase the risk others get Covid that’s your choice as well. Given the impact Covid has had on your country some would consider failure to vaccinate as unpatriotic. Personally believe mandatory vaccination is in violation of informed consent rules and contrary to the premise that you should have control of your own body. Would think it would be unconstitutional as well.

 

[backinblue]

300+ posts and I don't think any minds have been changed here, but I admire everyone's passion and perseverance!

 

[angus99]

Angus, thanks for bringing this slightly back to boating and I like your analogy. I'm happy report that in CT our infection rate has been consistently around 2% lately and at 1.6% yesterday. Many restrictions regarding capacity for restaurants and other businesses and events are being eliminated or reduced. A positive sign almost on the 1 year anniversary of when lockdowns started. It's looking more like a great boating season ahead.

I'm also happy to have an appointment to get the vaccine today. I don't get the "forcing to comply" comments. I don't feel the slightest pressure from anyone to get the vaccine. In fact, I had to work hard to get an appointment and have helped others who also want one. It also doesn't bother me in the very least that some people are paranoid or see a conspiracy in the works and refuse to get one. It won't make one bit of difference in my life if you decide not to get one. It may affect the lives of you or your family, but you are free to make that choice for yourself. We all decide what's best for ourselves and shouldn't try to force others to think the same way regardless of the issue.

At nearly 300 posts so far, we can all agree that this is an issue we all have strong feelings about and it's also clear that there isn't much point in trying to persuade others to agree with our own point of view. Regardless of your stance, I hope everyone will do what they can to support local businesses that have struggled and are now being allowed to operate again.

Glad you’re getting vaccinated. Unlike the reflexive chest thumpers, you seem like a thoughtful person. So how do you rationalize people who allow themselves to become living Petri dishes—making a welcoming place for the virus to morph into something more transmissible and more lethal . . . maybe something that ravages kids instead of the elderly? I understand being protective about what goes into our bodies and being responsible for our own personal risks. But how is it OK for anyone to consciously turn themselves into willing hosts and complicit allies of a virus that kills? I know that taking actions to protect people other than ourselves is utterly lost on some of the commenters on this thread, but you seem to have not drunk all of the Kool-aide that the anti-vax/anti-science/pseudo-libertarian/Fox-aholics have swallowed.

 

[backinblue]

Glad you’re getting vaccinated. Unlike the reflexive chest thumpers, you seem like a thoughtful person. So how do you rationalize people who allow themselves to become living Petri dishes—making a welcoming place for the virus to morph into something more transmissible and more lethal . . . maybe something that ravages kids instead of the elderly? I understand being protective about what goes into our bodies and being responsible for our own personal risks. But how is it OK for anyone to consciously turn themselves into willing hosts and complicit allies of a virus that kills? I know that taking actions to protect people other than ourselves is utterly lost on some of the commenters on this thread, but you seem to have not drunk all of the Kool-aide that the anti-vax/anti-science/pseudo-libertarian/Fox-aholics have swallowed.

Thanks for your comments. I rationalize it this way. We live in a country that allows freedom of choice. Regardless of whatever topic you pick and regardless of how strongly you feel about it, there will never be 100% consensus. That's not a bad thing. The freedom to have and express healthy differences of opinion is one of our great strengths. Those who decide not to vaccinate are most likely to affect themselves and their immediate families than the general population. It's virtually impossible to enforce 100% vaccination, so everyone should make a personal choice that they are comfortable with. It's not a perfect system but better than the alternative in my opinion.

For example, I feel no need to own a gun. Others would think I am crazy. I don't think gun owners should have their guns taken away and I don't think anyone should force me to own one. It's a matter of free choice. Someone with a gun may show up at my door and shoot me, but that's a risk I'm ok with.

Full disclosure, I am watching FOX business news now, like most mornings.

 

[sunchaser]

Angus
I'm not sure the anti vaccine crowd is limited to "Fox-aholics." We've a daughter, her husband and his relatives who are ardent CNN watchers and they are anti vaxers. Several other friends and Fox haters the same way. This vaccine debate crosses a lot of lines.

One good friend, an active lawyer and ardent liberal is anti vaccine. We've had some fun discussions. His take is largely centered on this is a media, Internet and political virus and no more serious than flus from the past. He is not alone in this thinking but still hates Fox though.

 

[angus99]

Thanks for your comments. I rationalize it this way. We live in a country that allows freedom of choice. Regardless of whatever topic you pick and regardless of how strongly you feel about it, there will never be 100% consensus. That's not a bad thing. The freedom to have and express healthy differences of opinion is one of our great strengths. Those who decide not to vaccinate are most likely to affect themselves and their immediate families than the general population. It's virtually impossible to enforce 100% vaccination, so everyone should make a personal choice that they are comfortable with. It's not a perfect system but better than the alternative in my opinion.

For example, I feel no need to own a gun. Others would think I am crazy. I don't think gun owners should have their guns taken away and I don't think anyone should force me to own one. It's a matter of free choice. Someone with a gun may show up at my door and shoot me, but that's a risk I'm ok with.

Full disclosure, I am watching FOX business news now, like most mornings.

Respectfully, this sounds too much like the perfect being the enemy of the good. Seems valuable to me to reduce the number of potential hosts no matter what my ideology might be.

 

[backinblue]

Respectfully, this sounds too much like the perfect being the enemy of the good. Seems valuable to me to reduce the number of potential hosts no matter what my ideology might be.

I agree that the more that get vaccinated the better. But just like those who insist that they will never "comply", I am not going to take the position that everyone should be forced to get vaccinated for the sake of everyone else. Vaccinations will reduce the spread, but not eliminate it. Remember, even if every single person gets vaccinated, the vaccine is not 100%, so the virus will still survive in some people. Flu vaccines are often less than 50% effective. Sometimes you have to accept "good" while hoping for "perfect". Accept it and move on. Enjoy life. Things are quickly improving, there is likely a great summer ahead.

In the meantime, the govt. fights over how to spend $2T that will mostly not be needed by the time it reaches anyone. Not to mention that the bulk of the money is not related to Covid anyway. Real head-scratcher.

 

[Hippocampus]

Delightful to see there are rational people on this thread.

For the record one of the restrictions I face is the changes in the rules at my rod and gun club. The indoor pistol range is effectively closed. Even skeet is difficult as it’s every other station and by appointment as is the outdoor rifle range. Supplies for reloading are non existent. So you can tie so many flies. FaceTime just so much of the time. Read so much. The house needs no work and the search for the next boat is going slow. End up spending too much time here. Wife calls this site my new girlfriend.

 

[backinblue]

LOL, I get suspicious looks from the wife at times too! Yes, there are a few rational people here. Things are quickly beginning to open up in my state, hope it's the same soon for the rest of you.

 

[catalinajack]

So, for the folks who have become convinced that masks do not inhibit the aerosol spread of disease, I have a simple question. If you ever need surgery, before they put you under and cut you open are you going to tell the surgeon and nurses not to bother wearing surgical masks because they do no good and you have proof? My guess is the answer will be "no". Yup, surgical masking has been the practice for over 100 years but all these armchair scientists and statisticians are certain that they know better than 100 years of settled science. Amazing.

 

[SteveK]

So, for the folks who have become convinced that masks do not inhibit the aerosol spread of disease, I have a simple question. If you ever need surgery, before they put you under and cut you open are you going to tell the surgeon and nurses not to bother wearing surgical masks because they do no good and you have proof? My guess is the answer will be "no". Yup, surgical masking has been the practice for over 100 years but all these armchair scientists and statisticians are certain that they know better than 100 years of settled science. Amazing.

My wife and I wear a mask whenever we are asked, whenever we are in close contact with others like shopping, entering or leaving a restaurant/business. It is respect for others.

However we do not wear a mask going for a walk, when in the car or visiting with friends/family.
I continue to have a chuckle watching those that are walking or driving wearing a mask when no one else is within 20 feet.
LOL watching a leader of a country/state/province wearing a mask while being interviewed, or on the podium.

 

[backinblue]

So, for the folks who have become convinced that masks do not inhibit the aerosol spread of disease, I have a simple question. If you ever need surgery, before they put you under and cut you open are you going to tell the surgeon and nurses not to bother wearing surgical masks because they do no good and you have proof? My guess is the answer will be "no". Yup, surgical masking has been the practice for over 100 years but all these armchair scientists and statisticians are certain that they know better than 100 years of settled science. Amazing.

Catalina, Welcome to the reasonable side! lol

Look people, are masks 100% effective, of course not. Do they help prevent spreading the virus in some instances, of course they do. Don't be a selfish rebel w/o a cause and put on a mask if you are close to others. It's not a big deal and not a big govt conspiracy to break the free will of the public and get them to conform. Long ago, society decided we didn't want to see each other naked (thank god), so we are all "forced" to wear clothes. If you want to live in society, there will always be some rules and regulations. For example this excerpt:

Keep the People Safe

Often times, the simplest of rules help protect us from ourselves. Like not driving through an intersection when the light is red or not touching an electrified fence.

If you just look at all the traffic regulations we have, you’ll see why they are set in place. Just imagine how many devastating accidents will happen if everyone just decided to disregard the rules.

Also, the rules are there to protect us from one another, or more specifically, from our basic self-serving instincts and self-destructive habits. If we don’t have the rule of law that punishes criminal acts like murder and stealing, then you can trust that crime rate will skyrocket. Even the most basic rule like proper garbage disposal needs to be followed. Otherwise, the very planet will be at risk and will the entire humankind.

 

[SteveK]

On thread topic. BC is on the road to normalcy this summer, that is we that live here can go back to normal activities is now expected after it is forecast that anyone that wants a shot can have one by July 1st. (2nd dose 4 months later)

ASD and others, passing through may be allowed without that vaccine passport, prepare for it. I do not expect to see any US flags at anchor in the cruising grounds this year.

 

[FWT]

“Reflexive chest thumper”. LOL

Lefties love name calling. I wear such names with pride! Deplorable. Neanderthal is the newest. I am called such things anytime I don’t agree with the left agenda. Just as often I disagree with the right agenda but they don’t go nuts on me and call me names.

 

[backinblue]

My wife and I wear a mask whenever we are asked, whenever we are in close contact with others like shopping, entering or leaving a restaurant/business. It is respect for others.

However we do not wear a mask going for a walk, when in the car or visiting with friends/family.
I continue to have a chuckle watching those that are walking or driving wearing a mask when no one else is within 20 feet.
LOL watching a leader of a country/state/province wearing a mask while being interviewed, or on the podium.

Soo, I couldn't agree more. Watching a masked couple walking alone outside or a person alone in a car with a mask on, makes me shake my head as well. And yet some states are considering mandatory masking any time you are outside of your home. I also agree there is no need for politicians and newscasters to wear masks when they are speaking and there is nobody around. The only thing that prevents is being able to hear what they are saying. Hmmm, wait a minute, never mind.

 

[ranger58sb]

Lefties love name calling. I wear such names with pride! Deplorable. Neanderthal is the newest. I am called such things anytime I don’t agree with the left agenda. Just as often I disagree with the right agenda but they don’t go nuts on me and call me names.

Seems equal opportunity, in my reading. First, add an insulting adjective to the victim's name, then follow with obscenity.

Members of at least one of the sites I sometimes visit (for its other basic content) are about as far right as Attila The Hun, and that's their normal pattern of discourse.

-Chris

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

As a former sailor and in my experience, I have seen less anchoring problems from sailors vs. power boaters. Not specifically serious power boaters like on TF, but power boaters as a whole. Sailboats and those who sail them are much closer to us on TF than power boaters as a whole. In fact quite a few of us learned how to cruise on sailboats which gives us a little edge in reading conditions and how to deal with them. Not meaning to start a sail vs. power discussion, but no need to dump on sailboats.

Oh come on. Smile a little. Maybe laugh a little. Yes you are correct in that all type of boats may drag anchor if not set properly. But it seems this happens to blowboats more often than power boats.

Take the post for what it is and smile.

On thread topic. BC is on the road to normalcy this summer, that is we that live here can go back to normal activities is now expected after it is forecast that anyone that wants a shot can have one by July 1st. (2nd dose 4 months later)

ASD and others, passing through may be allowed without that vaccine passport, prepare for it. I do not expect to see any US flags at anchor in the cruising grounds this year.

Yee Haw!!! I can cross now without a vaccine card.

 

[soin2la]

BC is on the road to normalcy this summer, that is we that live here can go back to normal activities is now expected after it is forecast that anyone that wants a shot can have one by July 1st.

You have a link for that?

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

You have a link for that?

Oh Oh let the cat out of the bag......

 

[FWT]

Seems equal opportunity, in my reading. First, add an insulting adjective to the victim's name, then follow with obscenity.

Members of at least one of the sites I sometimes visit (for its other basic content) are about as far right as Attila The Hun, and that's their normal pattern of discourse.

-Chris

Not doubting you, but I’m not seeing that.

I am a true independent. Opposed to both parties. OK maybe a little more against one at the moment because they are pushing nutty agendas. The party of “trust science “ is now against math, my pancake syrup, and going after toys. Hard to take seriously people who spend their day on that.

 

[SteveK]

You have a link for that?

Yes, I call it watching Dr Bonnie live on BCTV this morning.

 

[SteveK]

Oh Oh let the cat out of the bag......

Yup, forgot that he is adamant you are not coming through this year or ever. What did you do to offend him so?

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Yup, forgot that he is adamant you are not coming through this year or ever. What did you do to offend him so?

Ha Ha I will look for his AIS and toss him an AA, after I spray it Lysol

What did I do? Being me, a redneck cruiser I guess. Not sure but he seems to think BC is his private oasis. Doesn't want to share. Who knows or cares. Regardless what he thinks, I qualify to transient B.C. and I plan to do so.

 

[Northern Spy]

My wife and I wear a mask whenever we are asked, whenever we are in close contact with others like shopping, entering or leaving a restaurant/business. It is respect for others.

However we do not wear a mask going for a walk, when in the car or visiting with friends/family.
I continue to have a chuckle watching those that are walking or driving wearing a mask when no one else is within 20 feet.
LOL watching a leader of a country/state/province wearing a mask while being interviewed, or on the podium.

I might be that guy in my truck alone wearing a mask. I am so accustomed to wearing one, I often forget to remove it until I am halfway home from the grocery store.

I wear a mask as a courtesy, and as for respect for others.

Do I really think they are effective? I won't answer that directly, but I do think there is a (growing) sub-section of our population that should be masked most of the time, pandemic or not. Conversely, they are also the least likely to be masked up. Possibly because of the courtesy and respect thing. Most of them have no respect for themselves, albeit others.

I generally consider it theatre for politicians to wear (or not wear) a mask when at a podium.

I found a few papers on the effectiveness of masks for surgery. It's not as much as you would think. My wife is an OR nurse. Masks and visors are often used to protect the medical team more than the patient. Makes for gross dinner conversation at times.

We (big we) seem to take both hygiene and vaccinations for granted in our society. We have either forgotten, or never knew, how bad it was before these two great innovations in medical science.

 

[Hippocampus]

Infectious diarrhea, TBc, cholera, malaria, sepsis with childbirth were all the leading causes of death far exceeding the current big 5 now.
Mr. Crapper’s invention, housing regulations, and clean water supply has had a much greater effect on longevity and incidence of disease than all the drugs, surgeries, and vaccines throughout all of human history. It’s public health measures not applied medical science that has been the major driver throughout history including the present.

 

[soin2la]

Ha Ha I will look for his AIS and toss him an AA, after I spray it Lysol

What did I do? Being me, a redneck cruiser I guess. Not sure but he seems to think BC is his private oasis. Doesn't want to share. Who knows or cares. Regardless what he thinks, I qualify to transient B.C. and I plan to do so.

I saw this, directed at RTF:

You have a link for that?

I thought, yes, sometimes links can provide factual information and help to understand the point made.

Soo valley has repeatedly said BC will be back to “normal” by summer and now by July 01.

Following his (?-not sure of gender) lead of requesting a link, I innocently and respectfully did the same.

So why the aggression? Oh, right, a redneck who qualifies as a transient.

 

[backinblue]

Oh come on. Smile a little. Maybe laugh a little. Yes you are correct in that all type of boats may drag anchor if not set properly. But it seems this happens to blowboats more often than power boats.

Take the post for what it is and smile.

I smile all the time! Just in my experience, sailors are usually better at anchoring and other boating skills because they have to be. Again, not talking about the serious trawler crowd as much as smaller power boats. Then again, the really big expensive power yachts owned by people with more money than brains are probably the worst of all.

 

[backinblue]

Not doubting you, but I’m not seeing that.

I am a true independent. Opposed to both parties. OK maybe a little more against one at the moment because they are pushing nutty agendas. The party of “trust science “ is now against math, my pancake syrup, and going after toys. Hard to take seriously people who spend their day on that.

Don't forget Dr Seuss is an evil man, even though Obama once said that everything you need to know about life you can learn from a Dr Seuss book.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. s. Don't I usually provide links or readily do so when requested? What am I missing here?