Starlink

[dannc]

Starlink is just getting started providing service.

I noticed that the Starlink portability email has a map showing areas marked available and wait listed. My area is still wait listed, but our houses, and others, have received our Dishy. Thank goodness because we have few alternatives for high speed Internet.

What is odd about the map is the distribution of available vs wait listed areas. There is a reason for the distribution but I sure can't figure it out. Furthermore, there are blacked out areas surrounded by areas that have service.

One can enable the portability services as needed.

Later,
Dan

 

[guy with a boat]

My long time infatuation with Starlink ended this morning when i read my email and found out that "portability" would now add $25 to my service. The Starlink terminal is now on its way back to Hawthorne, CA.

I will now be using my T-Mobile home internet modem. I had thought it was geofenced. However, last week I moved it to the boat two hundred fifty miles from my service area and it worked fine. A flat $50 versus $135+taxes a month.

Bruce

If your infatuation ended because the price went up $25, then it wasn’t very strong to begin with. And if a cellular modem works for you and you stay in cell range, you don’t need a sat dish.

The Starlink dish is a game changer for those of us that cruise often (or primarily) in areas without cell service. Until Starlink, sat data that was very slow and cost thousands of dollars per month. The Starlink monthly cost, with or without the upcharge for portability, is peanuts compared to any existing comparable sat option.

 

[mvweebles]

If your infatuation ended because the price went up $25, then it wasn’t very strong to begin with. And if a cellular modem works for you and you stay in cell range, you don’t need a sat dish.

The Starlink dish is a game changer for those of us that cruise often (or primarily) in areas without cell service. Until Starlink, sat data that was very slow and cost thousands of dollars per month. The Starlink monthly cost, with or without the upcharge for portability, is peanuts compared to any existing comparable sat option.

Totally agree. Issue for me is right now, Starlink on a mobile platform is not authorized. So if comms are critical for your use, hard to put all your eggs in the Starlink basket. I would need iridiumGo as a backup. So I might as well keep my iridiumGo until Starlink is available and authorized for a cruising use case.

Subscribing to satellite services and such is relatively easy in the US. It's difficult to impossible in a foreign country. The Starlink terms of service make it clear that applies to their service too. Would really suck to be 1000 miles south of the US border and have to figure out sat comms because Starlink turned me off

Peter

 

[catalinajack]

That power usage is an eye-opener. Wow.

I'd love to understand if just mounting it flat and stationary can work. Obviously not optimal.

That's 100ah for 24 hours. Some folks have a need for service less than that.

 

[tpbrady]

I think other than licensing, the major issues with mobile service is the right equipment and laser cross links to extend service outside of the current gateway coverage. Mobile services consume a lot of system resources on the gateway/satellite side especially as the moving platform goes faster and it requires a much more capable terminal to maintain connection in anything other than calm seas.

 

[Seevee]

Does Starlink work in Canada? at least the parts on the Great Loop?


Also, without cell coverage is there an easy way to connect the phone thru the internet without a new volp phone service?


And, anyone using this on a boat and also using it for home service? How portable is the antenna?

 

[markrkrebs]

Yes great lakes area. Yes you can wifi to your phone (that's a phone capability, not a starlink thing.) I live-aboard so home & boat are same for me, but the gadget is a lightweight ungainly thing you can easily carry in one hand.

 

[markrkrebs]

Yah they need lasers to get to the deep ocean, but are you there?

Most boaters won't go so far they're out of coverage. Google up a service map.

I think other than licensing, the major issues with mobile service is the right equipment and laser cross links to extend service outside of the current gateway coverage. Mobile services consume a lot of system resources on the gateway/satellite side especially as the moving platform goes faster and it requires a much more capable terminal to maintain connection in anything other than calm seas.

 

[mvweebles]

A decent write-up of Starlink on a boat. Plus a YouTube of a speed test somewhere off the California coast showing 200mbs up, 5mbs down, and latency around 50ms which is impressive to say the least.

https://svrenaissance.com/musings-about-starlink/

https://youtu.be/OblLo5t_cdk

Things are changing fast. Was only a year ago that Seatech wrote that on-boat Starlink was not ready yet.

https://seatech.systems/2021/02/09/can-i-use-starlink-on-my-boat/

Peter

 

[FWT]

 

[PJHoffnet]

Starlink announces it's RV product. BUT - looks like it's simply a 'stationary solution' not on the go/drive. Basically a home set up with 'roaming' enabled.
https://www.starlink.com/rv

 

[FWT]

The subscription allows you to "pause" service for the months you are not using it, paying nothing for those months.

 

[Helmsman]

Starlink announces it's RV product. BUT - looks like it's simply a 'stationary solution' not on the go/drive. Basically a home set up with 'roaming' enabled.
https://www.starlink.com/rv

Interesting. Thanks for posting!

A couple of thoughts.


They must not think the additional sales will create a problem with bandwidth. They want to lock down this market before Amazon gets underway.

We may not see a marine application anytime soon. The current inability to receive outside of ten miles from land is something they might want to fix with satellites which have laser first. They also might need a more robust motor to keep the satellite in sight. so, this RV solution can be used for either, albeit with the above limitations in place.

A good move by them I think.

 

[Helmsman]

The subscription allows you to "pause" service for the months you are not using it, paying nothing for those months.

That is a good feature also. The video you posted just above is a good watch. The guy modifying the dish knows his stuff. He is banking on the dish working well enough pointing straight up. he is based in the Seattle area. Perhaps that will work well there.

 

[Simi 60]

They also might need a more robust motor to keep the satellite in sight. so, this RV solution can be used for either, albeit with the above limitations in place.

.

Several users are saying motor not needed even when on a heeling yacht and have done a hack to disable it

 

[Helmsman]

Several users are saying motor not needed even when on a heeling yacht and have done a hack to disable it

Thanks, Simi. Yes, they have. The video that FWT posted a few posts back was the MV Freedom blog. He actually cut the back off the dish, pulled the motor, fashioned a back plate for it and is using it in the horizontal position.

I guess my question is where geographically that approach might work.

 

[JD Ray]

A decent write-up of Starlink on a boat. Plus a YouTube of a speed test somewhere off the California coast showing 200mbs up, 5mbs down, and latency around 50ms which is impressive to say the least.

https://svrenaissance.com/musings-about-starlink/

https://youtu.be/OblLo5t_cdk

You’ve got that backward: it was 230 Mbps down and 15 Mbps up (YouTube video results). I wouldn’t have corrected you, except that this is a HUGE difference.

To put things in perspective, you can stream a 4K movie on 25 Mbps (down). To teleconference with video, you need 2-3 Mbps both directions.

For me, Starlink is the future of my ability to work from anywhere. I haven’t been to the office in over two years, yet maintained full time employment the entire time. Now, as we contemplate buying a boat to cruise, connectivity is the next problem. Starlink appears to be a dream come true.

 

[FWT]

I am seeing some chat I would not call reliable info, that the unit delivered with an RV subscription does not have a motor to adjust the direction of the dish. Surgery to eliminate that motor has been a barrier for many. If this chat is true, this is another step forward. The guy in the MV Freedom clip just mounted it flat and fixed and had good performance. If the chat is true, that would just leave mount details to nail down.

 

[Pau Hana]

Ours arrives today- looking forward to untethering from the cellular net.

 

[Helmsman]

Ours arrives today- looking forward to untethering from the cellular net.

Good deal. Let us know how well it works and where and how you installed it!

 

[HTurner]

I must say that I am very satisfied with mine. At the marina, it just works great. In the beginning I thought there would be issues being in the middle of an aluminum mast forest, but that is not the case. I did enable portability and at the various anchorages it is such a joy. I stow it while under way and redeploy when I have stopped. Not being able to use it underway -- while mobile -- is not an issue for me, I use my cell for email, etc.

 

[tpbrady]

FWT,

I don't think the RV version comes without a motor. Starlink's pointing algorithm seems to be based on looking north and it's looking for satellites 23.5 degrees above the horizon to the north, 34 degrees to the east and west and 63 to the south. Visually the area of the sky where Starlink is looking for satellites is a cone with an elliptical base tilted to the north. I got the angles from Starlink tech support (they couch it in terms is how far a tree of a specified height has to be from the antenna in order to not cause an obstruction). Removing the motor would prevent the antenna from its northward tilt and reduce the amount of useable sky the system can operate in since the operating cone is fixed to the north regardless of the orientation of the antenna surface. While it will work, there may be more outages due to no satellite being available in the viewing cone.

Having an RV, I can say in the places where I have parked finding a suitable location to set up a Starlink would be a problem due to trees and other RV's. As more satellites get launched the operating cone can be reduced in size so that just maybe finding a location for reliable service will be easier. Until then don't throw away the LTE hotspot.

One thing that concerns me is that Starlink installation guidelines don't include cautions on where to install the antennas. For example, a transmitting antenna installed on the ground has to be elevated at least 5 feet or enclosed in an area that keeps people out. So the roof of the RV is pretty much it.



Tom

 

[bowball]

That's useful information. I returned mine in Canada unopened as despite my request they switched me from the latest generation rectangular to the earlier round one, which is slightly larger. The advantage of the round one is you don't have to bypass the router, and can connect it directly into my boat's peplink router as a WAN.

I too will only use at anchorage. Is it worth the trouble to remove motor and flat mount it, or to set it up each time on the boat deck? My location is Vancouver Island to Alaska so that might affect the decision.

Eliminating the motor presumably eliminates some battery draw.

 

[FWT]

Tom:

Good to know. Thanks.

The guy in the MV Freedom clip I posted is in the PNW. He mounted his dead flat and fixed. If one needs to look north, I guess the further north one goes the more flat the desired angle becomes. What works for him may not work so well in Key West. But heck, we are all just learning as we go. My boat delivery is close to a year off. By the time I have it we will all know more, I hope.

 

[HTurner]

That's useful information. I returned mine in Canada unopened as despite my request they switched me from the latest generation rectangular to the earlier round one, which is slightly larger. The advantage of the round one is you don't have to bypass the router, and can connect it directly into my boat's peplink router as a WAN.

I too will only use at anchorage. Is it worth the trouble to remove motor and flat mount it, or to set it up each time on the boat deck? My location is Vancouver Island to Alaska so that might affect the decision.

Eliminating the motor presumably eliminates some battery draw.

Unlike a car or truck the dish will not present an air drag on a boat. I see no advantage in removing motors. At anchorage, I have noticed that the movement is only a couple times per hour. It is not constant.

 

[bowball]

Unlike a car or truck the dish will not present an air drag on a boat. I see no advantage in removing motors. At anchorage, I have noticed that the movement is only a couple times per hour. It is not constant.

My reason being as a permanent install it would be less obtrusive (and ugly).

 

[Helmsman]

Unlike a car or truck the dish will not present an air drag on a boat. I see no advantage in removing motors. At anchorage, I have noticed that the movement is only a couple times per hour. It is not constant.

I think the concerns are twofold.

The motors are probably not designed to be used as much as they might be on a boat. If you leave it on while underway, it would be moving quite a bit to adjust to the optimum setting.

The second issue is how much battery usage the motors might drive. Probably minimal, but sometimes minimal might matter.

Having stated the above, I wouldn't remove them either. I am waiting to see if they come out with a better solution before ordering.

 

[socalrider]

Yeah I’d like to see a 12V option as well. Hugely significant technology for boaters even as-is though.

 

[HTurner]

I think the concerns are twofold.

The motors are probably not designed to be used as much as they might be on a boat. If you leave it on while underway, it would be moving quite a bit to adjust to the optimum setting.

The second issue is how much battery usage the motors might drive. Probably minimal, but sometimes minimal might matter.

Having stated the above, I wouldn't remove them either. I am waiting to see if they come out with a better solution before ordering.

Before Starlink put the kibash in the terms of service for use while mobile, I setup the autopilot to do a 5 mile circle. The dish moved four times in three hours. Only at 180 degrees from North did it move. More importantly I never lost signal. At dock even while pitching, I have yet to see it adjust, except when I come aboard and turn it on.

 

[guy with a boat]

That's useful information. I returned mine in Canada unopened as despite my request they switched me from the latest generation rectangular to the earlier round one, which is slightly larger. The advantage of the round one is you don't have to bypass the router, and can connect it directly into my boat's peplink router as a WAN.

I too will only use at anchorage. Is it worth the trouble to remove motor and flat mount it, or to set it up each time on the boat deck? My location is Vancouver Island to Alaska so that might affect the decision.

Eliminating the motor presumably eliminates some battery draw.

The rectangular dish (gen 3) is shipped to the U.S., the round (gen 2) ships outside the U.S. There doesn’t seem to be any performance difference, but the gen 3 is slightly smaller (19”L v 23”round), uses a few watts less power, and is designed to cost less to manufacture.

I don’t understand the rush to disable the motors. We have one of these sitting on our pilothouse roof and it works amazingly well (speeds are as mentioned earlier). It adjusts direction from time to time, but not nearly often enough to be a concern to me. Power use of the motors (and the whole dish) is noise level on a boat like your Fleming. For a power-limited boat, it can be powered down when not needed.

Our current mount consists of the tripod it came with, some zip ties, and a couple dive weights. So far, including 200miles of cruising and some 30kt days, it hasn’t gone anywhere. It will get a more permanent mount, but I have no intention of cutting it up or disabling the motors. The Starlink guys wouldn’t have included motors unless their are good reasons to have them.

This thing (Starlink) is changing really fast, so you have to live with some uncertainty if you jump in now. Considering the alternatives (very slow KVH, etc with very expensive data, patchy cell service), I’m very happy taking the risk. If I wear the motors out, I’ll hard mount it or buy a new one. They are ridiculously cheap in boat dollars.

Our boat is in BC, currently 50 degrees north.